Double Fanucci Mafia (4/14) Endgame

[mtamburini]

Ok why is the elephant in the room being ignored?

Let me expand on that. As long as we have played here I have never scene a Jester EVER. Rishaeds like one of those homeless people in time square you seee wandering around...or one of those annoying actors talking to loudly on his cell on the A train. Is he being ignored because of the fact he draws attention to himself he must be harmless?

I'm pretty much hoping that's the case and I can solve the game without him

[rishaed]

Ok why is the elephant in the room being ignored?

Let me expand on that. As long as we have played here I have never scene a Jester EVER. Rishaeds like one of those homeless people in time square you seee wandering around...or one of those annoying actors talking to loudly on his cell on the A train. Is he being ignored because of the fact he draws attention to himself he must be harmless?

I'm pretty much hoping that's the case and I can solve the game without him

"Whatever is going to happen will happen whether we leave today or next week." ... " Enjoy yourself," ... "It might be the last chance we have."

[strike wolf]

Rishaed seems to have some kind of PR. Its not convenient but I can read what hes saying more or less if I look closely. Until he actually says something that strikes me as scummy or he looks to be the only one with a pr, I am not concerned at this moment.

[mtamburini]

Rishaed seems to have some kind of PR. Its not convenient but I can read what hes saying more or less if I look closely. Until he actually says something that strikes me as scummy or he looks to be the only one with a pr, I am not concerned at this moment.

You're kidding right?

[StorrZerg]

Storr thoughts on ib and streaker?

I'll get back to this latter.
anything specific?

[mtamburini]

Storr thoughts on ib and streaker?

I'll get back to this latter.
anything specific?

That's on the back burner. Look at strikes last post.

[StorrZerg]

Storr thoughts on ib and streaker?

I'll get back to this latter.
anything specific?

That's on the back burner. Look at strikes last post.

Almost as if he is trying to discourage the attention. I don't see the point of declaring someone a pr off randam posts.

He claims he understands, yet doesn't offer anything other than the pr comment. Idk it's weird.

@strike mind explaining a bit more in the purpose of calling him a pr like that? Also any insight to his posts since you think you understand them?

[TA1LGUNN3R]

@TA1LGUNN3R

I was going to respond to a lot of your stuff, and you have no idea how much in pains me to not bash your views on the current state of affair, or pull my massive dick out to slap you (as in i've played way more mafia games than you have)

In short, it doesn't matter, what matters is I don't like why you are pushing wing, because its a joke of a reason. Secondly i don't like how you keep defending yourself that you didn't miss read his statement regarding lynching. I think its becoming quite obvious your view point on what a normal lynch is in fact a "random lynch", while he was talking about something different.

Ball is in your court, i wait your unvote, or your evolved read on wing.

You seem awfully bent on convincing Tails that he is wrong. Almost more important then further hunting.
I don't wanna tell you what or what not to do, but our time on D1 could be better spent.

If you punish Tails for this, then what about Mets? His case is probably worse then this yet you leave him alone. It's just strange that you persue Tails for this, but not Mets for even less of a case.

Its not about being wrong, its about him all ready admitting his case was built up on his own opinion about something, which was not in the same wave length of another.
The reason i can harp on tails, is because he is responding and giving details about his case. Mets started pushing on wing before hand, and i can let that play out. I've argued with mets before and bashed him, Never had the opportunity to push on Tails, so im taking it. (also tails is pushing wing, after both comments had been made, mets pushed with just the first comment and previous remarks)

Regardless it doesn't matter why im not pushing on mets, the point is that TAILS is pushing an extraneous point and isn't backing off on it or expanding to a different reason.

It's not extraneous, it's perfectly valid. Just as valid as any other practice--LaL, meta discussion, or any other mechanic which is not necessarily unique to each game but rather a general playbook. Imo, D1 requires swift action, so any wrong action is ground for lynching. Everyone waits for the perfect case to fall in their lap when it doesn't happen. Y'all are talking about scum- or town- "reads" on day one. Laughable. "Reads" are a crutch and only serve to color your opinion of a player, whether for good or ill, and come back to bite you in the ass.

If a scumster hears that he's getting town vibes from players, of course he's gonna play that up and continue to move under the radar.

That said, I'm now more interested in the last two pages.

As I became a discration from this;

Storr why did you suggest a random lynch? Like most you have since agreed that it is a bad idea.

Generates discussion

Haha so you can utilize invalid methods (your position) to push the game along, but others can't? You certainly place much importance on yourself.

We can lynch wcg, overly defensive.

vote wcg

I wouldn't call wing "overly defensive"... he is getting somewhat serious votes put on him, so of course he is on the defensive, just as anyone who's getting voted would be. If anything I would think he might be scum from defending himself too calmly lol.

I completely agree but I think hotshot has TMI with this statement trying to buy some early day1 towncred EGMEOY

Wait, TMI? What information do I have? I wish I knew the information I'm supposed to know lol. I just think people saying people are scum for being defensive is kind of misguided when what else is he supposed to do except defend himself when people are voting him?

VOTE HOTSHOT

Hots last statement shows what being defensive is without receiving any kind of pressure, his sarcastic tone is also indictive of mafia.
SHEEP ME PLZ AND TY

Please elaborate how a sarcastic tone is indicative of mafia.

-Tails

[rishaed]

Rishaed seems to have some kind of PR. Its not convenient but I can read what hes saying more or less if I look closely. Until he actually says something that strikes me as scummy or he looks to be the only one with a pr, I am not concerned at this moment.
It felt like an object being shoved physically into her mind. Nynaeve gasped, her surroundings spinning. Myrelle turned and slipped back into her tent. Nynaeve slid down until she was sitting on the ground. Something was blossoming inside her mind. An awareness. Beautiful, wonderful.

You're kidding right?

Faile ate more slowly, the scent of amusement mixing with that of her soap.

[strike wolf]

I am serious. IB wants to go after Rishaed because he is posting strangely. Alright. Tell me what is intrinsically scummy about him posting like this? Nothing that I can see it just appears to be a PR aka post restriction. I am not going to ignore Rishaed completely but I dont condone a case based on him posting in a strange manner when I feel there are more legitimate leads.

If you look at what he posts, he seems to express agreement, disagreement and questions like everyone else just less able to do it in a direct manner.

[Metsfanmax]

I am serious. IB wants to go after Rishaed because he is posting strangely. Alright. Tell me what is intrinsically scummy about him posting like this? Nothing that I can see it just appears to be a PR aka post restriction. I am not going to ignore Rishaed completely but I dont condone a case based on him posting in a strange manner when I feel there are more legitimate leads.

If you look at what he posts, he seems to express agreement, disagreement and questions like everyone else just less able to do it in a direct manner.

But if rishaed can't express a statement in a way that town can actually understand, then he'd be a reasonable candidate for the 'random' D1 lynch if nothing better is around. (And right now, there's not many great leads.) If we're going to lose someone, might as well lose the person who is going to have a hard time helping us find scum.

[strike wolf]

So youd rather go with the easy lynch than try to interpret his posts.

[Metsfanmax]

I like making the game harder to play for town, because I am scum and enjoy the confusion.

[strike wolf]

I am not the one suggesting that we lynch someone based on trouble communicating rather than actual scum tells.

[strike wolf]

The fact is that even if I believed it was impossible for Rishaed to communicate at all (and as I have said, I do not think that is the case), it is still flimsy reason to vote someone and it generates little real debate to just do so. A wagon against someone who is posting strangely in the way that Rishaed has is a relatively easy case. I will go against any case I find stupid or as an easy case for mafia to push a town under.

Now has Rishaed done anything that has actually struck me as scum? No. So until something changes, I am not voting him and I am not that concerned about him. I also dont understand his posting style well enough to lay out a translation board for you all so thats up to you.

Has wing done something that seems scummy? Yes but I also find his behavior overall to be town.

Has Hotshot done something that seems scummy? Yes. I would see him over Rishaed as a lynch today most.

Mets right now would be my first choice though. I still feel you intentionally took wings comment outo of context and when I have better computer access I will follow up on that and I dont like the way you seem to want to support a Rishaed lynch.

[Metsfanmax]

I am not the one suggesting that we lynch someone based on trouble communicating rather than actual scum tells.

If you've got a compelling case to make, now would be the time to make it.

The fact is that even if I believed it was impossible for Rishaed to communicate at all (and as I have said, I do not think that is the case), it is still flimsy reason to vote someone and it generates little real debate to just do so. A wagon against someone who is posting strangely in the way that Rishaed has is a relatively easy case.

I would support an RNG lynch on D1, so I'm not sure why this case -- which actually has a reason -- is therefore somehow worse than that. But yeah, if you like making the game harder, that'll speak volumes later.

I will go against any case I find stupid or as an easy case for mafia to push a town under.

My logic wouldn't make any sense as scum -- that's the whole point. Opposing the removal of town confusion is what is potentially scummy.

I still feel you intentionally took wings comment outo of context

Everyone missed the point on that (when it came to my post). My point was that supporting a no lynch over a random lynch is a poor choice (certainly in 14 player games). Everyone responded "YEAH BUT WING WASN'T YET DEFENDING A NO LYNCH YOU IDIOT." Doesn't matter, that wasn't the point. The point was that he would if faced with that choice, and that indicates to me poor/inexperienced play. I didn't realize at the time that he's relatively new (someone pointed that out to me afterward), and if I had I would have been slightly gentler, but it didn't change my argument.

[Iron Butterfly]

Ok why is the elephant in the room being ignored?

Let me expand on that. As long as we have played here I have never scene a Jester EVER. Rishaeds like one of those homeless people in time square you seee wandering around...or one of those annoying actors talking to loudly on his cell on the A train. Is he being ignored because of the fact he draws attention to himself he must be harmless?

I'm pretty much hoping that's the case and I can solve the game without him

Hope does not win games nor does one person.

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

First off, Americans clearly have a different definition of sarcasm to us brits. A brit being sarcastic on an online forum is completely undetectable, so no I have no idea what you lot are on about with Hotshot. Clearly this is a language thing though.

With Rishaed - He could be anything and we would have no way of knowing.

Similiar with Mtam - in every transcript I have read he plays the confidence role, whether it be for town or mafia, there is no real way of telling. Cant lynch him D1 for being a good player.

Mets - You appear to be arguing that lynching Town is better than no lynch. How on earth does that logic stack up?

[virus90]

i see no point lynching rishead for his strange posts,
if its a post restriction it is even possible that someone else gets it next turn, and lynching him for that reason then thus has no point.
maybe it changes day 2, will see but i would not want to lynch him for that reason alone.
on a side note, if there is one master of riddles its rishaed so im not sure if its a post restriction or just rishaed having fun. but think time will tell that.

hoped that my first lead would contribute a bit but to this discussion as to gain further read into his play but unfortunatly he vanished.

[StorrZerg]

Rishaed can play Coherently
He isnt under a spell, or being forced because of his role.

[strike wolf]

I am not the one suggesting that we lynch someone based on trouble communicating rather than actual scum tells.

If you've got a compelling case to make, now would be the time to make it.

There are cases being made. Streaker, Hotshot, Wing even though I don't believe he's scum. A few other isolated votes. Even the tails/Storr back and forth has some degree of merit. Are these the strongest cases ever made? No. Do they come close to being so? No. But for early day 1 cases, they were fine.

The fact is that even if I believed it was impossible for Rishaed to communicate at all (and as I have said, I do not think that is the case), it is still flimsy reason to vote someone and it generates little real debate to just do so. A wagon against someone who is posting strangely in the way that Rishaed has is a relatively easy case.

I would support an RNG lynch on D1, so I'm not sure why this case -- which actually has a reason -- is therefore somehow worse than that. But yeah, if you like making the game harder, that'll speak volumes later.

It's worse because you are suggesting lynching someone for reasons that are not inherently scummy.

I will go against any case I find stupid or as an easy case for mafia to push a town under.

My logic wouldn't make any sense as scum -- that's the whole point. Opposing the removal of town confusion is what is potentially scummy.

It makes sense if you feel that Rishaed was an easy lynch for sewing confusion which is why I stated that to begin with. Even talking about the confusing player can be good for mafia. It takes town's attention away from the actual scum tells. This is why I said I was not concerned with it. I'd rather hunt for actual scum tells.

As far as opposing the removal of town confusion. The thing is you are going immediately to the most extreme resolution which would be to eliminate the player and doing so that causes town to use their lynch power to do so. If Rishaed was to be vigged tonight, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it but there is always the option of trying to see if there is a way to understand what Rishaed is posting or asking him if he can be a little more clear with the meanings of his Post Restriction.

I still feel you intentionally took wings comment outo of context

Everyone missed the point on that (when it came to my post). My point was that supporting a no lynch over a random lynch is a poor choice (certainly in 14 player games). Everyone responded "YEAH BUT WING WASN'T YET DEFENDING A NO LYNCH YOU IDIOT." Doesn't matter, that wasn't the point. The point was that he would if faced with that choice, and that indicates to me poor/inexperienced play. I didn't realize at the time that he's relatively new (someone pointed that out to me afterward), and if I had I would have been slightly gentler, but it didn't change my argument.

I didn't miss the point. I just don't fully buy your excuse. You took the quote out of context and then defended it when it was noted that you took it out of context.

Now you also talk about it being legitimate to vote for people who lead town astray and I won't argue that I don't see some reasoning there but to me it just strikes me as more of an excuse to support a bandwagon or an easy lynch later in the game.

[strike wolf]

wtf? I hit save draft...not submit...

[Metsfanmax]

Rishaed can play Coherently
He isnt under a spell, or being forced because of his role.

What makes you say this?

Mets - You appear to be arguing that lynching Town is better than no lynch.

I say this in every single game: D1 lynches are no better than random and are likely actually worse from town's perspective, because most people vastly overrate their "scumhunting" skills. Someday folks will listen!

You took the quote out of context and then defended it when it was noted that you took it out of context.

I didn't take the quote out of context. Wing made an argument, and one of the assumptions made in that argument was the comment "no lynch is better than random lynch." By showing that one of the assumptions was wrong, I showed why his whole argument was incorrect. If Wing didn't want to defend this claim in absolute terms, he shouldn't have made this claim. It's absolutely absurd to blame me when he's the one who made the faulty argument. I'm just the one who pointed it out.

[StorrZerg]

Rishaed can play Coherently
He isnt under a spell, or being forced because of his role.

What makes you say this?

Because its absurd to think he is under some "role" that prevents other wise. The simplist solution is the most likely, he is having some "fun"

Also, previous games have shown that he can talk normal.

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

Wing made an argument, and one of the assumptions made in that argument was the comment "no lynch is better than random lynch." By showing that one of the assumptions was wrong, I showed why his whole argument was incorrect. If Wing didn't want to defend this claim in absolute terms, he shouldn't have made this claim. It's absolutely absurd to blame me when he's the one who made the faulty argument. I'm just the one who pointed it out.

I stand by my argument. Chances are that there are more Town than Mafia. Why would killing a town be better than no lynch? It wouldnt. Sure we might hit mafia, but lets be honest we wont. We dont have any vanilla town and I assume there are certain town roles which we really dont want to be randomly lynched D1.