Sweeney Todd Mafia ~ Town Wins. Ready to be Archived

[DoomYoshi]

I thought Todd would be anti-town. So, what of Lucy and her association with him? Doesn't it seem reasonable that DoomYoshi would be at least not town?
vote DoomYoshi

-Sully

It doesn't seem reasonable, although this is an interesting development. Just like the movie, I am trying to tell you what is happening but you are ignoring me.

[Mr. Squirrel]

Vote Count

safariguy (2) - vio, haggis
doomyoshi (2) - victor, commander9,
shaggy (1) - naxus
haggis (1) - safariguy

6 to lynch
deadline in 36 hours
At deadline, lynch the person with the most votes

[Haggis_McMutton]

Interesting developments.

Victor and Sax are being quite terrible, with Victor pointing out something that has been discussed ad nauseaum and Sax's only noteworthy contribution being to silently put someone at L-1, but I think edoc is still the most interesting one.

Let's recap:

Yoshi gets at L-2 on joke or pseudo-joke votes. Safari puts him at L-1 for a somewhat decent reason(though I still think putting him at L-1 was a mistake and you should have seen that if he wouldn't be immediately revealed as scum, it would likely lead to you having to claim), anywho, here comes edoc:

Soooooo tempted to do a a quick D1 hammer just for fun. Likely a bad idea. So with only a week for a day to we force him to claim or not? It is mostly joke votes, but idk, there was some evidence in there.....

What possible reasons does an experienced player have for making this post(still would like to know what the "evidence" was btw) and not trying to stop the waggon?
1. He's anti-town and wanted to get that claim while being able to distance himself from the waggon later.
2. He's one of the judge's friends and reached the conclusion that Yoshi is scum the same as safari did.
3. ??? You tell me.

Btw, just for completion's sake:

Also balance>realism, claim sounds good till proven otherwise. Nice job their boys with the insta bandwagon on a investigative role. At least it isn't the doc.

Oh, hai, there's the distancing from the waggon.

Anyway, later on:

Well, I guess it naxus then. I feel that the wagon was joined a little too quickly, especially by those latter on the wagon. That being said, there is an approaching deadline, perhaps the rush was worth it.

Hmm, is anybody getting deja-vu from this?
"I don't really agree with this waggon, but what the hell, we might as well get the claim" ...


Up next:

Alright, went back and read through everything several times. It doesn't take long, it would be a good idea for some of the others to do that as well.

So, here is what I don't get, why the hell haven't we forced Safari to claim? He was a way better target the Naxus. Now he has been on both wagons, forced doom to claim and contributed mostly flavor spec, large parts of which stick out as misdirection. Namely the 2 mafia 9 town bit. I say bullshit, the only reason to assume that is to be if you KNOW there is an SK, which I assume for the moment him to be if he isn't scum trying to misdirect the town. If there is no SK there are 3 scum guarantied, 2 is too little unless we have almost all vanillas (doesn't look like it) and 4, when the town better then have a pair of two elite bodyguards.

In that vein, Unvote Vote Safari.

While he has hinted at town power, that means nothing. Anyone can do that, the scum know who the good guys are just as readily as the town.

Yeah, let's confirm that fourth claim too.
What are the reasons for the vote? he forced Yoshi to claim(as you approvingly watched) and was on the naxus waggon(as you approvingly watched). So the only valid reason is that he's been doing a lot of flavour spec.
Real strong case there.

More interestingly however, this eliminates the option that he let the yoshi waggon happen for the same reason that safari did.
If he's one of the judge's friends, then the way safari hinted towards his claim should be more than obvious to him. Hell he even admits as much himself:

I was nearly certain that is who you would claim. Sorry Saf but I did need to force you. Perhaps the unobservant wouldn't have noticed it, but you were rubbing that nose in our face. Hence why didn't press earlier. You however made a few sins since then and we needed to be certain. It was fairly obvious that you were likely town power, but you also were not going to be the target of the doc due to your actions during the day.

It is just as likely (perhaps more, the scum can group think at nights) that the doc wouldn't have picked up on it. I assume you think am scum because you voted for me, so riddle me this, do you think that if I were Todd or one of his compatriots I would have outed you or just killed you during the night while everyone else was busy protecting the Lovers and the watcher?

So during the re-reads you claim to have done did you fail to notice safari's plan of being watched by Yoshi? The doc reasoning is 100% bullshit and you know it.

So let's see what your actions have been so far in this game:
1. Encourage Yoshi claim while not joining the waggon, later distance yourself from the waggon.
2. Encourage naxus claim while not being on the waggon.
3. Force safari claim, later say that it was pretty obvious he'd be a town power role, make up bullshit excuse.

Yeah, I'll go with unvote vote edoc

[jonty125]

Eh, I suppose it's the best plan so far. Wasn't fond of the sudden naxus lynch attempt. *hops on* vote safariguy5

-Sully

Was on the doom wagon and now that wagon fell apart jumps on the safari bandwagon (that has now fallen apart)

unvote Vote Victor

[edocsil]

Replies in Blue

Interesting developments.

Victor and Sax are being quite terrible, with Victor pointing out something that has been discussed ad nauseaum and Sax's only noteworthy contribution being to silently put someone at L-1, but I think edoc is still the most interesting one.

Let's recap:

Yoshi gets at L-2 on joke or pseudo-joke votes. Safari puts him at L-1 for a somewhat decent reason(though I still think putting him at L-1 was a mistake and you should have seen that if he wouldn't be immediately revealed as scum, it would likely lead to you having to claim), anywho, here comes edoc:

Soooooo tempted to do a a quick D1 hammer just for fun. Likely a bad idea. So with only a week for a day to we force him to claim or not? It is mostly joke votes, but idk, there was some evidence in there.....

Saf had a legit reason for voting him, although I don't know if it was l-1 worthy, I was wondering if others felt his logic was good enough to actually be serous instead of joking. What was I to do? Defend him? If he flipped scum I would be screwed. Couldn't Unvote, no vote placed.

What possible reasons does an experienced player have for making this post(still would like to know what the "evidence" was btw) and not trying to stop the waggon?
1. He's anti-town and wanted to get that claim while being able to distance himself from the wagon later.
2. He's one of the judge's friends and reached the conclusion that Yoshi is scum the same as safari did.
3. ??? You tell me.

Btw, just for completion's sake:

Also balance>realism, claim sounds good till proven otherwise. Nice job their boys with the insta bandwagon on a investigative role. At least it isn't the doc.

Oh, hai, there's the distancing from the wagon.
Yup, I distanced myself from a wagon I had no part of. If something like that flips a VT, it is still funny. If it flips something important it is less so.
Anyway, later on:

Well, I guess it naxus then. I feel that the wagon was joined a little too quickly, especially by those latter on the wagon. That being said, there is an approaching deadline, perhaps the rush was worth it.

Hmm, is anybody getting deja-vu from this?
"I don't really agree with this waggon, but what the hell, we might as well get the claim" ...
For better or worse he was the one we would force to claim. It always happens when someone gets a large number of voes D1, that is just how it works. The logic doesn't matter, look at others advocating a RL, D1 the simply don't care so long as they can get info from the lynch.

Up next:

Alright, went back and read through everything several times. It doesn't take long, it would be a good idea for some of the others to do that as well.

So, here is what I don't get, why the hell haven't we forced Safari to claim? He was a way better target the Naxus. Now he has been on both wagons, forced doom to claim and contributed mostly flavor spec, large parts of which stick out as misdirection. Namely the 2 mafia 9 town bit. I say bullshit, the only reason to assume that is to be if you KNOW there is an SK, which I assume for the moment him to be if he isn't scum trying to misdirect the town. If there is no SK there are 3 scum guarantied, 2 is too little unless we have almost all vanillas (doesn't look like it) and 4, when the town better then have a pair of two elite bodyguards.

In that vein, Unvote Vote Safari.

While he has hinted at town power, that means nothing. Anyone can do that, the scum know who the good guys are just as readily as the town.

Yeah, let's confirm that fourth claim too.
What are the reasons for the vote? he forced Yoshi to claim(as you approvingly watched) and was on the naxus wagon(as you approvingly watched). So the only valid reason is that he's been doing a lot of flavour spec.
Real strong case there.

More interestingly however, this eliminates the option that he let the yoshi wagon happen for the same reason that safari did.
If he's one of the judge's friends, then the way safari hinted towards his claim should be more than obvious to him. Hell he even admits as much himself:

I was nearly certain that is who you would claim. Sorry Saf but I did need to force you. Perhaps the unobservant wouldn't have noticed it, but you were rubbing that nose in our face. Hence why didn't press earlier. You however made a few sins since then and we needed to be certain. It was fairly obvious that you were likely town power, but you also were not going to be the target of the doc due to your actions during the day.

It is just as likely (perhaps more, the scum can group think at nights) that the doc wouldn't have picked up on it. I assume you think am scum because you voted for me, so riddle me this, do you think that if I were Todd or one of his compatriots I would have outed you or just killed you during the night while everyone else was busy protecting the Lovers and the watcher?

So during the re-reads you claim to have done did you fail to notice safari's plan of being watched by Yoshi? The doc reasoning is 100% bullshit and you know it.
I recalled the plan only vaguely, and had absolutely no reason to suspect that doom remembered it more clearly then I. Saf must live and I will do what is needed to ensure that he gains the protection he needs.

So let's see what your actions have been so far in this game:
1. Encourage Yoshi claim while not joining the wagon, later distance yourself from the wagon.
2. Encourage naxus claim while not being on the wagon.
3. Force safari claim, later say that it was pretty obvious he'd be a town power role, make up bullshit excuse.

Yeah, I'll go with unvote vote edoc

[Commander9]

First of all is first. I still doubt Judge as being pro-town and I'm suggesting that we definitely keep an eye on him and his lackies. Should Mr. Todd turn out not to be mafia, we have to go for the Judge straight away. Having said that, argument on Edoc is a bit compelling and I will add some pressure on it. Unvote. Vote Edoc.

[edocsil]

First of all is first. I still doubt Judge as being pro-town and I'm suggesting that we definitely keep an eye on him and his lackies. Should Mr. Todd turn out not to be mafia, we have to go for the Judge straight away. Having said that, argument on Edoc is a bit compelling and I will add some pressure on it. Unvote. Vote Edoc.

Good god, Read the wiki. Everyone is a real group of vicious bastards there aren't they.

Commander, the odds are that the kills will come from Todd. I assume that there will be flavor that will give things away if the judge is killing people

[Commander9]

Good god, Read the wiki. Everyone is a real group of vicious bastards there aren't they.

Commander, the odds are that the kills will come from Todd. I assume that there will be flavor that will give things away if the judge is killing people

I've seen the whole movie 3 times, so I have somewhat of a fairly decent view on this.

Exactly - and that's why I'm not voting him.

[safariguy5]

Eh, I suppose it's the best plan so far. Wasn't fond of the sudden naxus lynch attempt. *hops on* vote safariguy5

-Sully

Was on the doom wagon and now that wagon fell apart jumps on the safari bandwagon (that has now fallen apart)

unvote Vote Victor

Shameless bandwagonning with minimal effort in this game. I understand the case on edoc, but I admit that I figured I would probably have to claim anyways with the pressure I put on Yoshi. The possibility of me getting killed for being a cop was definitely there, but due to the rather high probability that I won't find mafia on first investigation, thus turning me into a VT, I figured it wouldn't be a bad idea. I can see why edoc would be suspicious of me partly because Yoshi turned out not to be mafia (as far as we know) just yet.

Still, I think that getting rid of a bandwagonner given impending deadline and number of outed roles would be preferable to a hasty wagon on edoc.

unvote vote victor

[DoomYoshi]

Eh, I suppose it's the best plan so far. Wasn't fond of the sudden naxus lynch attempt. *hops on* vote safariguy5

-Sully

Was on the doom wagon and now that wagon fell apart jumps on the safari bandwagon (that has now fallen apart)

unvote Vote Victor

Shameless bandwagonning with minimal effort in this game. I understand the case on edoc, but I admit that I figured I would probably have to claim anyways with the pressure I put on Yoshi. The possibility of me getting killed for being a cop was definitely there, but due to the rather high probability that I won't find mafia on first investigation, thus turning me into a VT, I figured it wouldn't be a bad idea. I can see why edoc would be suspicious of me partly because Yoshi turned out not to be mafia (as far as we know) just yet.

Still, I think that getting rid of a bandwagonner given impending deadline and number of outed roles would be preferable to a hasty wagon on edoc.

unvote vote victor

Agreed. vote Victor

[Victor Sullivan]

Looks like Sully's got his own little crew of bandwagoners. Tsk, tsk, people, I expected you knew me better than that. Honestly, is the evidence against edoc better than my shameless, early bandwagoning? C'mon guys, if I were mafia I wouldn't be so stupid. vote edocsil

-Sully

[safariguy5]

Looks like Sully's got his own little crew of bandwagoners. Tsk, tsk, people, I expected you knew me better than that. Honestly, is the evidence against edoc better than my shameless, early bandwagoning? C'mon guys, if I were mafia I wouldn't be so stupid. vote edocsil

-Sully

So you're defense is a WIFOM statement? Not real compelling there sully.

[VioIet]

Looks like Sully's got his own little crew of bandwagoners. Tsk, tsk, people, I expected you knew me better than that. Honestly, is the evidence against edoc better than my shameless, early bandwagoning? C'mon guys, if I were mafia I wouldn't be so stupid. vote edocsil

-Sully

Umm... hmm...

Okay now.. Victor- you know that outside of mafia, i'm your biggest fan- and always will be- but...
I don't think you want me to start listing all the games where you've been playing fruity as an anti-town role

You know I like to meta


And on a more serious note- the mod prodded me. I could've sworn i had just posted a few days ago- but i have a lot to catch up on- so please give me time to do so.

[jonty125]

early bandwagoning?

What makes early bandwaggoning better than any other bandwaggoning?

[ShaggyDan]

Okay, so I guess it's either Victor or Edoc for our D1 lynch looking at current votes and a twelve hour deadline.

After re-reading I've found only 6 posts from Victor. 2 clear joke votes. 1 vote following up his vote remaining on Yoshi. 1 quick bandwagon hop onto safari. 1 quick bandwagon back off to Yoshi and just not hopping on Edoc (which is understandable as it's the other bandwagon than himself). Aside from offering a litttle spec on Yoshi's role he has added effectively nothing. I disagree with his view on Yoshi's role but his view is not scummy. What concerns me is the lack of posts (well not so much lack of posts, but lack of substance within the posts).

On the other hand we have Edoc with 11 posts. Breakdown:
1- Jokevotes
2 - Jokes about doing a quick D1 hammer, puts forward the idea of a claim (which should not have been done or suggested by anyone imo).
3 - Criticises the bandwagon after (potentially) advocating the claim. Didn't say anything about the bandwagon being bad when it was actually happening before the claim.
4 - Flavour spec
5 - Criticises another bandwagon made (fair point)
6 - Defence
7 - Forces safari to claim (again, another thing that shouldn't have been done imo)
8 - Justifies his own bandwagon after previously criticising two.
9 - Unvotes
10 / 11 - defence / flavour spec

To be honest at this point I feel comfortable voting either of them. Both haven't actively put alot forward, I think Edoc has put forward more. Despite me having a bad feeling about Edoc with his criticism of bandwagons and then performing of the same thing; I think Victor edges out slightly for not really putting anything forward. The only solid thing I can find in his posts is that he wants to lynch Yoshi (despite a fair amount of reasoning behind Lucy being a pro-town or neutral role). And although I do think we shouldn't believe any allignment or claim 100%, it is odd he isn't considering the option that Lucy is town. That plus; silence is scummy.

My vote may not have the chance to be changed before the deadline (as I might not be on), I apologise if new info or situations come up at in that time but I can't be on here all the time .

Vote Victor

And FOS on Edoc.

[Victor Sullivan]

Alright, people, settle down... I'm a Royal Marine - Town Roleblocker.

There you go. Not scum.

-Sully

[DoomYoshi]

Alright, people, settle down... I'm a Royal Marine - Town Roleblocker.

There you go. Not scum.

-Sully

Could easily be a fakeclaim. Who, if anyone, would you roleblock tonight Victor?

[Victor Sullivan]

Alright, people, settle down... I'm a Royal Marine - Town Roleblocker.

There you go. Not scum.

-Sully

Could easily be a fakeclaim. Who, if anyone, would you roleblock tonight Victor?

Idk, I hadn't thought of it as of yet.

-Sully

[edocsil]

Flavor spec boys. I can only find one reference to Royal Marine and seems like some something dirty, not a actual character. Any one else find this claim fishy?

[DoomYoshi]

Flavor spec boys. I can only find one reference to Royal Marine and seems like some something dirty, not a actual character. Any one else find this claim fishy?

Would you like your milk 2%, or skim?

[edocsil]

Flavor spec boys. I can only find one reference to Royal Marine and seems like some something dirty, not a actual character. Any one else find this claim fishy?

Would you like your milk 2%, or skim?

More of a whole milk kinda guy.

[jonty125]

I like semi-skimmed milk but what has preference of milk got to do with mafia?

[edocsil]

I think he was implying that I skimmed the thread, but I am not certain....

[jonty125]

That makes much more sense then having a discussion about milk

[DoomYoshi]

I think he was implying that I skimmed the thread, but I am not certain....

Yea I was implying that, but I don't know why...Continue on, I will sit here with my soy milk.