The Murder Of Albarezzi- End Game- Mafia Wins!

[Victor Sullivan]

*chuckles* You thought I deadbeated? Haha, I've been following this thread since the start, actually

Call me out for submarining if you will, but I find it interesting people noticed and jumped on the wagon so quickly

I'm an easy target for a number of reasons - an easy bandwagon for the scum without putting much pressure on themselves. Ponder that...

[VioIet]

Pondering....

Pondering.....

Okay, I pondered.

Now, I highly doubt you have been following this thread this whole time, or you would have responded sooner.

As far as quick wagon hopping- it is Day 1.

I was really hoping you would have more to say on the current events of the thread. All you commented about was the fact that people were voting you for inactivity. It still doesn't contribute much to the game.

If you feel you have been targeted unfairly, then help us choose another target. As of the moment, I don't see anyone better.

Except well maybe Anark.

[Anarkistsdream]

You rang?

[Drabod]

We said that we didnt want sullys replacement to have a mass of votes on him, but sully has now confirmed he is following the game i think this then alone is reason to keep pressuring sully, maybe making him more active, than just reading the thread like stated.
VOTE SULLY

[DoomYoshi]

Commander: Sorry i haven't posted much of substance. The Vio/PCM thing was really awkward and I didn't want to put my opinions cuz i Thought they would get me killed. Seriously.

I realize this topic is dead now, but here is what I thought about it. The case by Vio was based on nothing. If PCM was innocent, Vio would totally be up from a framing, if she ISN'T mafia. However, since it might be a 3 faction game, she could be up for framing even if she is mafia. Also, PCM could be an opposing mafia faction and she might get off the hook (if it's a 3 faction game). So while I wanted to vote Violet for starting the whole rigamarole, I didn't want to be a bandwagon jumper who got killed in an effort to frame Violet. Now that pressure seems to have moved elsewhere. I will unvote vote Violet for extremely suspicious behaviour. As to your list, Commander, if those people on your town list turn up as mafia, it would look reflect poorly on your judgement.

As to the Victor issue, I say let him fry, if he is not scum, hopefully we can gleam something from the voting patterns of those who are.

[safariguy5]

Commander: Sorry i haven't posted much of substance. The Vio/PCM thing was really awkward and I didn't want to put my opinions cuz i Thought they would get me killed. Seriously.

I realize this topic is dead now, but here is what I thought about it. The case by Vio was based on nothing. If PCM was innocent, Vio would totally be up from a framing, if she ISN'T mafia. However, since it might be a 3 faction game, she could be up for framing even if she is mafia. Also, PCM could be an opposing mafia faction and she might get off the hook (if it's a 3 faction game). So while I wanted to vote Violet for starting the whole rigamarole, I didn't want to be a bandwagon jumper who got killed in an effort to frame Violet. Now that pressure seems to have moved elsewhere. I will unvote vote Violet for extremely suspicious behaviour. As to your list, Commander, if those people on your town list turn up as mafia, it would look reflect poorly on your judgement.

As to the Victor issue, I say let him fry, if he is not scum, hopefully we can gleam something from the voting patterns of those who are.

Where are you getting this 3 faction idea from? 11 player game doesn't really seem like there could be a cult. Maybe a third party survivor, but I doubt it. Also, Comm9 making the list is just impressions. I wouldn't hold him to the validity of it. I have a problem with your rationale here. You're all for letting Victor hang yet you refuse to vote him and instead target Vio? Looks like you're trying to split the wagon without getting a scumbuddy into more pressure. So the logic behind the post seems to be trying to distance yourself from the wagon and then possibly hammering later to cover your tracks.

FOS DoomYoshi

However, I still think Victor is a more compelling case right now because if he was following the thread, surely there has been more than enough action now to comment on. I find it hard to believe that Victor has nothing to say on the PCM wagon, the accusastions of Vio, Comm9's list, or defense of his own wagon.

[DoomYoshi]

Oh ok, I haven't played a lot of mafia, just from the backstory it sounded like there was 3 factions. So, assuming there is 2 factions, my vote on Violet makes a bit less sense.

However, I have prepared below the mathematical rationale for why I voted Violet, although keep in mind that it is based on the voting cycle before Vi starting switching gears to Nark ( a fairly suspicious point). Anyone who can apply this to themselves can use the rationale provided below, whether or not you believe claims 1) and 2)

IF
1) I am not a mason or lover with Violet or PCM
2) I am not mafia with either of them.

3) I have no explicit knowledge. My mission is to minimize casualties, and gain information.
THEN
4)Case 1, Violet is scum, PCM is town, If we lynch PCM on day 1, then Violet still gets a kill on night 1 and we can lynch her day 2. Casualties: 2 town, 1 mafia. If we lynch Vi on day 1, then casualties are 1 mafia and then day 2 is unpredictable.

5)Case 2, VIolet is town, PCM is scum. If we lynch PCM we are ahead. If we kill Violet, we are behind.

6)Case 3, both are town. If we lynch PCM day 1, then it is really easy for the mafia to frame Violet. Then we lynch her day 2 and are down by 3. If we lynch Violet day 1, there is nobody who can be framed. That is because Violet brought the case on PCM and not vice versa. Casualties: 1 town

So, assuming there is a 3/11 chance of them being mafia, Case 3 is the most likely and is also the easiest place we can minimize casualties. Violet stuck out her neck to get the game moving, for which I respect her. Either way, Violet has to die.

The reason I will not vote for Victor is that I do not believe voting somebody for metagame reasons is actually a valid case. If he dies we can gleam information from the voting on him. In general it seems like the more cases present to the town at lynch day, the less chance that we act on any given one, the less chance we kill the right person.

[pancakemix]

Victor is at -1. Just throwing that out there.

[DoomYoshi]

Yet another reason to not vote for him.

[Anarkistsdream]

Yet another reason to not vote for him.

Why would you want to make the day take longer?

You are number 1 enemy, tomorrow.

Unvote
Vote: Victor

HAMMER!

[TheSaxlad]

Vote Count

1. Nark(1-vi)
2. Commander (2- spiesr, yoshi)
3. Pancake (1-edoc)
4. Safari
5. spiesr
6. Vi (1-pcm)
7. Edoc
8. / (1-VS)
9. drabod
10. Sully (5-safari,/,commander,drabod,nark)
11. Yoshi

11 Alive, 6 To Lynch.

I didn't take Edoc's vote as he only said same or something of the time. Victor is currently on L-1.

Don't forget to bold that unvote vio.

DoomYoshi said he was going to a convention but is back now, so there's no excuse. Still, between all the different possibilities for submariners, I'd still go for the one that is least likely to participate. Sure, Yoshi may not participate that much, but he's at least a warm body with a vote. I hardly ever see Victor here, so even if he was here, he probably wouldn't contribute a vote. If Yoshi really is scum, voting patterns will probably expose him sooner or later. With absolute inactivity, nobody can say for sure 1 way or another which is why I prefer Sully.

Hmm, okay, fair enough - good point.

Unvote. Vote Victor. (I'd still rather see him replaced, though)

I as well.

This is the quote in question. If edoc qualifies we can lynch victor. If not he is L-1.

[pancakemix]

1, 12, 6, 20...

Well Victor, anything to say?

[spiesr]

Why would you want to make the day take longer?
You are number 1 enemy, tomorrow.
Unvote
Vote: Victor
HAMMER!

So, are you just bored and reckless, do you seriously believe Victor to be scum, or have you been driven mad by our impending doom?

[safariguy5]

Oh ok, I haven't played a lot of mafia, just from the backstory it sounded like there was 3 factions. So, assuming there is 2 factions, my vote on Violet makes a bit less sense.

However, I have prepared below the mathematical rationale for why I voted Violet, although keep in mind that it is based on the voting cycle before Vi starting switching gears to Nark ( a fairly suspicious point). Anyone who can apply this to themselves can use the rationale provided below, whether or not you believe claims 1) and 2)

IF
1) I am not a mason or lover with Violet or PCM
2) I am not mafia with either of them.

3) I have no explicit knowledge. My mission is to minimize casualties, and gain information.
THEN
4)Case 1, Violet is scum, PCM is town, If we lynch PCM on day 1, then Violet still gets a kill on night 1 and we can lynch her day 2. Casualties: 2 town, 1 mafia. If we lynch Vi on day 1, then casualties are 1 mafia and then day 2 is unpredictable.

5)Case 2, VIolet is town, PCM is scum. If we lynch PCM we are ahead. If we kill Violet, we are behind.

6)Case 3, both are town. If we lynch PCM day 1, then it is really easy for the mafia to frame Violet. Then we lynch her day 2 and are down by 3. If we lynch Violet day 1, there is nobody who can be framed. That is because Violet brought the case on PCM and not vice versa. Casualties: 1 town

So, assuming there is a 3/11 chance of them being mafia, Case 3 is the most likely and is also the easiest place we can minimize casualties. Violet stuck out her neck to get the game moving, for which I respect her. Either way, Violet has to die.

The reason I will not vote for Victor is that I do not believe voting somebody for metagame reasons is actually a valid case. If he dies we can gleam information from the voting on him. In general it seems like the more cases present to the town at lynch day, the less chance that we act on any given one, the less chance we kill the right person.

Case 6 is a WIFOM argument. If they're both town, then the mafia may frame Vio because they think that the cop is going to investigate her. On the other hand, they might know that the cop knows that and frame someone else. All this is secondary to Victor needing to claim right now.

@mod, I think edoc wanted to get a replacement, not vote him.

[DoomYoshi]

It is not a WIFOM argument. I am saying that the same action should be taken regardless of whether she is mafia, knowing full well that she is most likely town. When I say frame, I didn't mean the mafia ability frame. I meant the mafia would kill someone who had voted for violet in order to frame her in the eyes of the town. That is why I had earlier stated that my opinions could get me killed, as I am the perfect target.

[safariguy5]

It is not a WIFOM argument. I am saying that the same action should be taken regardless of whether she is mafia, knowing full well that she is most likely town. When I say frame, I didn't mean the mafia ability frame. I meant the mafia would kill someone who had voted for violet in order to frame her in the eyes of the town. That is why I had earlier stated that my opinions could get me killed, as I am the perfect target.

Then it's a WIFOM argument again. Mafia might think that we think they're going to frame Vio with the kill and kill someone who didn't hop on the bandwagon. In fact, when I'm mafia, we usually leave the people who make accusations around because it's easier to pin blame on them later. It's a circular argument, we cannot use what we think the mafia is going to do as basis for what we do now. All we can do is see what the mafia did and then try to go from there.

[edocsil]

Yet another reason to not vote for him.

Why would you want to make the day take longer?

You are number 1 enemy, tomorrow.

Unvote
Vote: Victor

HAMMER!

Vote Anark for voting for someone who in my role is confirmed to be a townie.

[Commander9]

Why would you want to make the day take longer?

You are number 1 enemy, tomorrow.

Unvote
Vote: Victor

HAMMER!

Dude, why would you not let him claim? This is an extremely untownesque behaviour - he deserved a chance to at least explain himself.

Unvote. Vote AD.

Vote Anark for voting for someone who in my role is confirmed to be a townie.

Care to explain it? How do you know he's a townie?

[edocsil]

Why would you want to make the day take longer?

You are number 1 enemy, tomorrow.

Unvote
Vote: Victor

HAMMER!

Dude, why would you not let him claim? This is an extremely untownesque behaviour - he deserved a chance to at least explain himself.

Unvote. Vote AD.

Vote Anark for voting for someone who in my role is confirmed to be a townie.

Care to explain it? How do you know he's a townie?

I don't care to explain much as there really is no point, the case is minor. Basically he is my father, and I am told he is a good guy. I know his role, and deem him worthy of a doc protection tonight.

[Commander9]

I don't care to explain much as there really is no point, the case is minor. Basically he is my father, and I am told he is a good guy. I know his role, and deem him worthy of a doc protection tonight.

Hmmm, mason claim... Okay, I'd suggest someone would track them (if we have a tracker), but I can understand why you were so defencive of Sully for the whole game. I will buy this... for now.

[Anarkistsdream]

Oh noes! The votes are accumulating!

Also, if you notice, he DOES get time to explain.

[Commander9]

Oh noes! The votes are accumulating!

Also, if you notice, he DOES get time to explain.

Anark, I do understand that and I'm disappointed that Sully still has not posted, but what were you thinking when you tried to hammer a person even without giving him a chance to claim? What if he's our only doctor or vig and we get screwed like that. You've been longer than almost anyone else in these games and you know that this shouldn't happen. I'm sorry, but I think you're better than that and you just quickly tried to hammer someone and then if he had turned town, you would have said that it was incidental. I am sorry, but for this I believe you are no friend of the town.

[VioIet]

I feel that some people have been a bit too hard on anark. He gave Victor 24 hours to claim. Also ,Victor didn't provide any sort of defense when he posted. This is pretty much a sign that he is not going to.

I think if some people were really so concerned with sully accumulating too many votes; they would have unvoted to ensure that he wasn't hammered before he claimed.

All of those who have a vote on Victor at the moment are almost, or just as much to blame as Anark. I don't see anyone rushing to unvote Sully to prevent someone from hammering him. If edoc's claim is true- then certainly there are scum on Victor's wagon- probably the earlier votes. Then how convenient to just wait for someone to hammer, as long as it isn't you. And then you can conveniently use it as an argument to accuse them.

Just trying to think outside the box a bit for this one; i think this is definitely plausible.

[safariguy5]

I don't care to explain much as there really is no point, the case is minor. Basically he is my father, and I am told he is a good guy. I know his role, and deem him worthy of a doc protection tonight.

Hmmm, mason claim... Okay, I'd suggest someone would track them (if we have a tracker), but I can understand why you were so defencive of Sully for the whole game. I will buy this... for now.

No, I don't think it's a mason claim, probably a backup claim (sounds like deputy to Victor's Cop). Therefore, that will be an unvote for me. Also Anark, you generally give someone a little more than 24 hours to claim. Still, I'm suspicious of Yoshi. I'll give him that he's new to this, but WIFOM mafia speculation is definitely scummy to me. Still, the premature hammer by anark is worse to me.

vote nark

[VioIet]

Either way, Violet has to die.