Zombie Mafia - Day Four - Zombies win, Ga7 survives

[captainwalrus]

While I am not very experienced, to me it seems to not be a good idea, to kill so quickly into the game someone who has not really had enough time to defend themself, and has had no real reason to, as only four people were voting him. I don't think it was the work of a day vig, or at least not the work of a very good day Vig.

[gimpyThewonder]

just a quick, confirm and a promise to catch up. it's been a while so i'll have to knock the rust off my scumdar

[Serbia]

Yo Gimp.

[LSU Tiger Josh]

I must say that I agree with Mandy on this as there was a good likelihood that there was a chance to hit scum in that situation.

[gimpyThewonder]

Thanks for the warm welcome back everyone

I say good work to your Mysterious Shooter. You have enabled us to lynch another person today, and the more people get killed during the Days, the less powerful Mafia's nightkilling ability becomes.

Mandy could you please elaborate here for me? It has been a while but last time I checked we wanted to keep people alive and not have multiple town deaths each day. If there are less town then there is an even greater chance that scum can hit a more powerful role.

Or does it have more to do w/ the setup?

FOS Mandy b/c your comments strike me as odd, which when I think about it, is how your comments should strike me, weird

[F1fth]

I must say that I agree with Mandy on this as there was a good likelihood that there was a chance to hit scum in that situation.

In almost any game of mafia, the beginning of day 1 has the one of the largest town to scum ratios at any point throughout the entire game. Add that to the fact that there has been little discussion (and thus little backing evidence) and no information gained from roles so far, and you see that this is actually the worst time to make a vigkill on the town's bandwagon.

Hmm,Vote Fircoal. He dropped in on the safari wagon for what was at the time decent reasoning, (because safari was hopping on the H2SY wagon), but yet remained on when safari made it pretty clear that he had no intention of lynching H2SY and was just trying to provoke some activity from her.

And Mandy, I disagree with you completely about the dayvig. If that person is pro-town, then they are stupid. You never, never, never kill somebody without a claim unless you have a very good reason not to (e.g. suspected player has daykill, you already know the player's role, etc.) Not only does it give us a huge chance to catch someone in a lie (or verify their claim), but people's reactions to the claim are extremely important in determining what their alignment is. Whether the cop you kill has claimed or not casts varying degrees of suspicion on motives of the bandwagoners.

And to Gimply, welcome! This truly is an all-star game now (though I note a severe lack of Aussies).

I agree with you. About welcoming Gimpy and lamenting the lack of Aussies.

On the other hand, I disagree with your analysis. What you would be true, if this was Day 4 for instance. But, on the Day 1, it would be silly for the daykiller to draw suspicion on himself by asking for a claim who is at -4, when he can simply gambit the probably condemned man (sorry again Safari ) and provide the Town with enough time for a de facto extra lynch.

And now we lost a tracker, quite a valuable role. I don't think our tracker being killed was worth the extra lynch. If we had gotten a claim (he would have claimed if more people voted him, no vig intervention required), then I doubt he would have been killed in such a ridiculous way. Of course, this is assuming that his killer was pro-town .

[nagerous]

Thankyou f1fth for speaking sense, that kill was ultra-moronic.

[Koesen]

Vote Count:

Nagerous: 1 (Pancakemix)
Serbia: 1 (Captainwalrus)
GimpyThewonder / Happy2seeyou: 3 (Talapus, ga7, Colton)
Mandalorian: 1 (Serbia)
Iliad: 1 (Mountainlion)
Fircoal: 1 (F1fth)

15 alive, 8 to lynch. Deadline Friday morning 10 AM EST / 3 PM GMT, approximately 50 hours from now. If you want to lynch someone, best get on with it!

[Koesen]

Happy2seeyou has been replaced by GimpyThewonder!

Should I send him my PM? Thanks again! I really appreciate it

No need and no problem! I hope your baby gets better soon.

[mandalorian2298]

Thanks for the warm welcome back everyone

I say good work to your Mysterious Shooter. You have enabled us to lynch another person today, and the more people get killed during the Days, the less powerful Mafia's nightkilling ability becomes.

Mandy could you please elaborate here for me? It has been a while but last time I checked we wanted to keep people alive and not have multiple town deaths each day. If there are less town then there is an even greater chance that scum can hit a more powerful role.

Or does it have more to do w/ the setup?

FOS Mandy b/c your comments strike me as odd, which when I think about it, is how your comments should strike me, weird

Lol, have we met?! I have always believed that the best chance for the Town to win is the all out slaughter which should hopefully leave us with some alive Townies a none alive Scummies. Keeping people alive equals allowing Mafia to pick who is and who isn't gonna die.

FOS Talapus for being so quiet. Ok, Nemesis of mine, I have fouled up and accused the wrong man. This would be a great chance to show me how it's done and present theory of your own, instead of just pointing out the insanity in my theories. If it makes sense, I pledge my vote to your cause, or indeed to anyone who comes up with a sensible theory. Tick tock people!

[gimpyThewonder]

Mandy that's like logical equivalent of Russian Roulet. Shoot as many people as possible and HOPE that the bullet fires on a bad guy. In all the games we've played together this is my first encounter w/ this particular philosophy. As such, b/c I disagree w/ your methodology and we are pressed for time

vote mandy

it pains me but must be done

[/]

Mandy that's like logical equivalent of Russian Roulet. Shoot as many people as possible and HOPE that the bullet fires on a bad guy. In all the games we've played together this is my first encounter w/ this particular philosophy. As such, b/c I disagree w/ your methodology and we are pressed for time

vote mandy

it pains me but must be done

Basically you are saying we should not kill people randomly, but you are willing to kill someone you don't want to kill whenever the time limit is expiring.

[Serbia]

Mandy, you're nuts. (And not just because you're Croatian! ) Although I'm really beginning to believe that you are in fact the one who killed Safari, and that while that was dumb, you felt overly justified and unconvinced that we'd get a lynch. As such, Unvote.

Now I have to read through again. There was someone I felt scummy back when I made my case against Safari, and I want to re-read on that.

[Serbia]

Alright, going back through this, there is something that strikes me as fishy. Firstly, colton still is a guy that seems scummy to me, but could be chalked up to just colton being colton. But there is another player who seems to have an interest in colton as well...

Let's see if Colton has learned anything.

vote Colton

What does Colton need to learn?

Vote Mandy for telling me what to do!

Where are PCM and Cowboyz?

Serbs is looking questionable to me...

Of course, I haven't played with Colton, so I don't know if he really has an overreaction problem. So, let's ask the new players, who probably played with Colton before:

I don't recall ever playing colton before, but I can tell you he has a general overreaction problem, so I'm sure that shows itself in mafia as well.

Serbia, I believe this question was already answered in this post which was before yours:

Yeah, he over-reacts, but not that much, and I don't know if he does it when he is scum or not.

Then Mandy says thanks, seemingly satisfied with captain's input (also before your post):

Thanks, I just wanted to know if Safari's explanation for voting Colton is matches the facts.

So, back on square 1 ...

Why did you feel the need to answer Mandy's question a second time?

Also, you say you "don't recall ever playing colton before," and yet you still have input on him?

Unvote

FOS Serbia

In these first quotes, you've got ML sticking up for colton, and then leading a theory on my possible scummyness for making a comment about colton (in which I wasn't fingering him [don't be childish ya drunks] or voting him, or suggesting anything really of substance). Seems like he's being a little protective.

(for those with short-term memory loss [or an unwillingness to go back and read] this was my response [going off track here])

You mafia dwellers must not venture out into the main forums much. colton and I go way back. I received a 72 hour forum ban for calling him a m**** in the Spamalot thread (pm me for the hardcore version of my incredible, incendiary flame). So when I saw people picking on colton, well, I couldn't resist. Kalish isn't here for me to attack without provocation, reason, or cause, so instead I went with colton as a somewhat suitable replacement.

Anyway, the one I think is suspicious is H2SY. She came across as a total ditz. Either she's some insane roll, clueless, or really is a ditz.

So there's that first bit. ML sticks up for colton. But wait, there's more!

And I'm going to be slightly lazy, and let Fircoal make this point for me:

Very little activity on this day 1...I might as well make a vote.

Vote Happy2 as well. Let's see what she says

A weak reason, no?

Some intelligence from Fircoal (world is ending, run for the hills!)

Fircoal has been prodded.

oh noes D:

First: Vote: Mandy for being obvious scum.

Second: Why are we voting Happy? From what I remember she's usually clueless, so I don't really see it as anything that scummy. I personally think the thought is a bit weak but it's Day 1. Weak thoughts becoming votes really isn't that uncommon. What strikes is what follows:

Very little activity on this day 1...I might as well make a vote.

Vote Happy2 as well. Let's see what she says

vote milk juggs(H2SY) just for a little pressure

Ok two votes to make a total of 4 votes on H2SU. These two votes came basically right after Frenchie-chan's accusation of H2SU and really it just triggers my radar. Neither of them say much about the accusation of Frenchie-chan's and it really seems to be more mindless bandwagonning. And talking about mindless:

Fair enough I suppose. Has H2SY even posted yet? Active Submarining IMHO.
unvote
vote Happy2SeeYou

As someone said that's not even on the right topic! Talk about obvious bandwagonening. And along with those the two prior to him he was on the top bandwagon scum spots (3-5). This to me just screams out scum. So Unvote Vote: Safari also FOS: ML, Colton
RAWR!

colton and ML seem to be working almost in concert here. Interesting, no? And I'm not the only one who's noticed either.

Koesen, I hope you keep the vote count correct. Whenever someone corrects a vote count I think they're scummy for being quick to appear helpful.

From page 8 (I took the tail end of it):

Well what do you want me to say? I seriously believe active posting is better than occasional posting. That said, I seriously believe that if I were to change my vote now, you'd all say that I was trying to disguise the fact that I am scum and blah blah blah... Sticking by my rationale, I will FOS LSU Tiger Josh for not adding anything to the discussion besides a few votes. Trying to be low-key there I see...

Town generally doesn't consider the ramifications of its actions to the the general opinion of themselves. Other people do, obsessively.

My opinion is that safari saw a game of vets, saw colton and from admitted previous playing experience and knowledge of colton's tendency to snap under pressure saw an easy way to get a quick day 1 lynch with minimal discussion or gain for town. Maybe a lyncher, but this seems more likely to me.
Unvote vote safariguy5

1. Koesen said there are NO lynchers, skimmy skimmerton!
2. Iliad was the 5th voter on safari, thus a possible bandwagoner.
3. Well, I don't have a #3

I tend to agree with Serbia's take on Colton, but I don't think I'll vote him just yet. IGMEOY Colton

Vote Iliad

Main point here - he AGAIN brings up colton, agreeing that he seems scummy, but doesn't vote him, just 'warns' him. Because obviously he hasn't had a chance to talk to him yet, maybe he's trying to get him to shut it while he's ahead??

What the f*ck was that? Day vig, Day SK?

Thanks for adding nothing to the conversation.

Ok, so that was really stupid. Only someone really stupid (like H2SY - and by the way, that's not really an insult, I'm just going off your day one posts, which I think everyone will agree were rather scatterbrained - but unlikely because of your real-life issues, and good luck again btw) (or maybe colton - who is again is really adding nothing, and in my opinion would not be above doing something dumb and then posting strongly against it after seeing that it failed) or somebody really, really clever, and smarter than his own good - MANDY. So I'm doing a major FOS: Mandy on this one. PCM has a good point about Fircoal being a moron though - I concur!

(yes yes, ironic that I call Fircoal a moron here [risking a ban no less] and then use him to state my case later)
But it's that little bit in the middle where I mention colton that ML is responding to. I just find it interesting that the one guy who keeps popping up on everyone's scumdar is the one that ML is constantly defending/protecting/talking about/not voting for.

IN LIGHT OF ALL THIS...

VOTE: MountainLion

this vote brought to you by the people of the sun (see below)

[captainwalrus]

It has to be in blue, but your reasoning seems pretty decent.
I will unvote cause it wasn't a real vote.
Colton did follow the happy bandwagon right after MountainLion did.
I will roll with that for a bit, but I will vote colton as he has shut up from the last few pages.

[captainwalrus]

also, colton is less of an asset and so if we lynch him too quick, we won't miss too much.

[Serbia]

It has to be in blue, but your reasoning seems pretty decent.
I will unvote cause it wasn't a real vote.
Colton did follow the happy bandwagon right after MountainLion did.
I will roll with that for a bit, but I will vote colton as he has shut up from the last few pages.

My vote is actually blue. Very very dark blue, MICHIGAN blue. Quote the post, you'll see.

But to satisfy ya, VOTE: ML

[LSU Tiger Josh]

Unvote Vote Colton captain is right in that colton is definitely less of an asset if it is a bad lynch especially with him not talking anymore.

[gimpyThewonder]

Mandy that's like logical equivalent of Russian Roulet. Shoot as many people as possible and HOPE that the bullet fires on a bad guy. In all the games we've played together this is my first encounter w/ this particular philosophy. As such, b/c I disagree w/ your methodology and we are pressed for time

vote mandy

it pains me but must be done

Basically you are saying we should not kill people randomly, but you are willing to kill someone you don't want to kill whenever the time limit is expiring.

I didn't want to vote him because Mandy adds something to the game and makes it more fun. But i still feel that his tactics are of the scummy variety in this instance.

[mandalorian2298]

Mandy that's like logical equivalent of Russian Roulet. Shoot as many people as possible and HOPE that the bullet fires on a bad guy. In all the games we've played together this is my first encounter w/ this particular philosophy. As such, b/c I disagree w/ your methodology and we are pressed for time

vote mandy

it pains me but must be done

I repeat, the Town gets better odds if the bullets are flying wildly then it does if Mafia gets to choose the targets. Also, voting someone because you disagree with his view, without even claiming that you believe me to be scum is not a very Townie thing to do. FOS Gimpy

Mandy that's like logical equivalent of Russian Roulet. Shoot as many people as possible and HOPE that the bullet fires on a bad guy. In all the games we've played together this is my first encounter w/ this particular philosophy. As such, b/c I disagree w/ your methodology and we are pressed for time

vote mandy

it pains me but must be done

Basically you are saying we should not kill people randomly, but you are willing to kill someone you don't want to kill whenever the time limit is expiring.

OWNED!

Mandy, you're nuts. (And not just because you're Croatian! ) Although I'm really beginning to believe that you are in fact the one who killed Safari, and that while that was dumb, you felt overly justified and unconvinced that we'd get a lynch. As such, Unvote.

Trust me mate, if I were a Dayshooter, I would choose a target, and then completely ignore him/her as far as accusing goes. Why bother with convincing 8 other people when you can just PM Koesen your target and get on with your life. To quote the Bounty Hunter's Creed: "In hunt, one captures or kills, never both."
(Of course, given that I am terrible at playing Vig, it's a good thing that I haven't had the chance to play that role often. )

A really long post, full of quotes which I am not going to requote here because it would take too much space. In it he states his case against MountainLion

Your accusation of MLion is interesting (although I admit that I have not fully understood all your reasoning). However, as the previous posters pointed out, Colton is more sacrificable then MLion. Also, give that most of Day 1 discussions were about him, so his lynch will probably tell us more then the lynch of an other player could. Thus: vote Colton

[colton24]

Really, I don't know what to say. I mean right now I'm just pondering what to do and re-reading and all. It really wouldn't contribute if I said. I don't know what to say, or I'm thinking right now.

[pancakemix]

Vote Count:

MountainLion: 1 (Serbia)
GimpyThewonder / Happy2seeyou: 3 (Talapus, ga7, Colton)
Mandalorian: 1 (Gimp)
Iliad: 1 (Mountainlion)
Fircoal: 1 (F1fth)
Colton: 3 (CW, LSU, Mandy)

15 alive, 8 to lynch. Deadline Friday morning 10 AM EST / 3 PM GMT

With my unvote, this is our current VC (ignoring my vote in this post), and considering the quickness which Colton acquired 3 votes is startling, especially considering a main argument in that vein of thought is that he bandwagoned! I think there's a valid argument to be made for Colton's lynch given Serb's post, but that was largely based against ML, not Colton, and the idea of lynching Colton instead of ML because he's a "less valuable asset" is absurd. I've seen bad players get vital power roles like doc and I've seen good players get townie (I'm aware that there are no vanillas, BTW). The chances of one of them having a particular scum role is equal to the chances of one of them getting an equally powerful pro-town role, and it does us no good if by lynching Colton we eliminate our doc and by letting ML live we let the GF go free, all the while throwing suspicion from our intended target?

That said Vote ML by virtue of Serbia's argument. I'm aware that my statement works both ways, but keep in mind ML is the one being protective, not Colton. Also note that if we learn the nature of ML's role, we will also learn the nature of Colton's.

Also, FOS CW for completely turning Serb's post away from its objective. This distraction leads me to believe what applies to Colton may also apply to CW. We shall see.

[MountainLion]

My "first quotes" were merely on the subject at hand: Colton. I used the commentary on him to grasp at straws to vote you Serbia. It's weak, but what do you expect on day 1? Also I've never played with Colton, nor do I know him in any way. Have you ever made a strong vote on day 1 against someone you don't know, trusting others comments on them?

I was the second vote on happy. I admit it was a lazy vote. I don't know why colton voted after me, but safari voted after him as well and he was town. Fircoal said it was mindless bandwagoning on happy, and to be honest, he was right. You may use that against me if you like...

Again, I grasped at straws on Iliad and no one bit. So be it.

I just find it interesting that the one guy who keeps popping up on everyone's scumdar is the one that ML is constantly defending/protecting/talking about/not voting for.

IN LIGHT OF ALL THIS...

VOTE: MountainLion

this vote brought to you by the people of the sun (see below)

So I'm constantly defending/protecting/talking about/not voting for Colton? It's true I have not voted for him.

In every mafia game there's usually at least one guy that acts scummy just about every time they play mafia. From what others are saying, and from what I've seen, he looks like that kind of player. This doesn't mean they are scum. In fact they could be an important town role, they could be unimportant...bottom line, they are hard to read. Most, if not all players are hard to read in there own way. So here's my question: why should I vote for someone if they are hard to read in a scummy way?

[MountainLion]

Well I didn't read PCM's post above mine until after I posted it...he just said about the same thing I did in my last paragraph about Colton.

[MountainLion]

This is actually kind of funny. It went from voting the bad player to voting the player who appears to be protecting him.

I've seen bad players get vital power roles like doc and I've seen good players get townie (I'm aware that there are no vanillas, BTW). The chances of one of them having a particular scum role is equal to the chances of one of them getting an equally powerful pro-town role, and it does us no good if by lynching Colton we eliminate our doc and by letting ML live we let the GF go free, all the while throwing suspicion from our intended target?

By your own reasoning PCM, you incriminate yourself. You say Colton could be "our doc" and yet you vote me for "defending" him?

If I remember correctly, isn't there some kind of tell that whoever is the first to mention the doctor is either the doctor or scum?

PCM, I think your plan is to get me lynched and then have Colton around later for another lynch. In fact, you even "helped" us with a vote count. How nice of you to do that. Maybe you know we are both town and you'd prefer to get rid of me first?

I would like to hear your reply PCM...