[Endgame] Firefly Mafia

[Fircoal]

Sigh, was just saying that ive seen it happen before. Didn't mean for a whole discussion to be based off of it

So you're saying discussion is a bad thing? Cause it sounds like you're upset about it.

[naxus]

Now don't twist my words fir. Discussion is great but day one discussion is usually useless cause it ends up a blind lynch anyway.

[Fircoal]

Now don't twist my words fir. Discussion is great but day one discussion is usually useless cause it ends up a blind lynch anyway.

So you're saying that we shouldn't discuss at all day 1? Gee I wonder how much info we could get from that. :3

[VioIet]

I would like to make a case against Iliad.

Vote Fircoal for being Fircoal.

Sorry for the inactivity guys, but I feel kind of sluggish lately.

So have I. Especially with this lack of rest.

I agree with StrikeWolf's reasoning about the wagon, and that large joke wagons should be discouraged. However I do think Sheep's vote was typical joke-vote. He withdrawed it quickly, which either means he realised it went a little beyond a joke, or he was intentionally backpedalling on a slightly scummy move. Personally I think the former.

Sorry I don't have more to contribute, been a bit busy with other games/RL. That and nothing major has really jumped out at me.

Me too.

Joke voting someone is fine, but jokevoting someone to L-3 or L-4 is a little to far. Ive seen a couple games where joke voting allowed the mafia to speed hammer someone

Yep, I've seen this too.

Joke voting someone is fine, but jokevoting someone to L-3 or L-4 is a little to far. Ive seen a couple games where joke voting allowed the mafia to speed hammer someone

It does look like Naxus tried to prove his town status and jumped at the opportunity.

Regardless strike wasn't in any danger, and neither did sheeps vote put him in any. It would've been nice if the joke votes continued, but I guess we're through on the other side now.

For someone who says that the joke vote stage was so much fun, you surely weren't an active participant in it. I just re-read the whole thread, and I didn't see any joke votes that popped out at me- that were composed by you. And I didn't even think the joke vote stage in this game was funny. I think you are normally a very articulate player. If you truly meant that you were just going to miss the joke vote phase, because you thought it was so hilarious- i think you would have phrased the wording in your post better. Fir called you out on it first, and saf said it was miscommunication- but i don't think so.

And FOS Sheep, because I think he probably lost count and thought that he hammered.

And yes i realize it sounds like I'm rambling a bit- but its late at night, and I'm operating on about 5 hours sleep. So my apologies if I'm incoherent. Hopefully you get the gist of what I'm trying to say.

And before I forgot.
Unvote
Vote Illiad

[Commander9]

Fairly decent case on Illy, but I'm going to stick with my current vote as I think it has more basis.

[strike wolf]

Seems vio spent about as much time excusing her absence as she did making the case. It did a bit incoherent at points but a couple good points on iliad. Overall I have to agree with safari though as it did seem to be a bit of a miscommunication. I highly doubt that sheep thought he was hammering though...the post count was the same page only a few posts back. I'm not sure what to make of the case on naxus overall. I can see points in both the accusing and defending side there and so far no case has in my opinion generated enough connections to consider them viable leads.

[strike wolf]

Also going back through the series as I didn't remember much of it forgot how good it was.

Jayne: "Testing, testing. Captain, can you hear me?"
Mal: "I'm standing right here."
Jayne: "You're coming through good and loud."
Mal: " 'Cause I'm standing right here."

Mal: "I just wanted you to face me so she could get behind you." (Zoe punches the thug out) "Drunks are so cute."

Mal: "Well they tell you: never hit a man with a closed fist. But it is, on occasion, hilarious."

Inara: (pissed) "What did I say to you about barging into my shuttle?"
Mal: "That it was manly and impulsive?"
Inara: "Yes, precisely. Only the exact phrase I used was 'don't'."

Mal: Now this is all the money Niska gave us in advance. You give it back to him, tell him the job didn't work out. We're not thieves... well, we are thieves, but the point is we're not taking what's his. We'll stay out of his way as best we can from here on in. You'll explain that's best for everyone, okay?
Crow: [stands up] Keep the money. Use it to buy a funeral. It doesn't matter where you go, or how far you fly, I will hunt you down, and the last thing you see will be my blade.
Mal: Darn. [kicks Crow into Serenity's engine intake]

[Anarkistsdream]

Naxus and Iliad are by far the best two targets.

Sheep is just a psycho.

Unfortunately, I just don't know which one of the two is a better target. I really liked Commander's points in the last few pages, but Violet makes a good point now.

I can't remember who I voted last, and there has been no recent vote count.

Unvote
Vote: Naxus

[strike wolf]

Now don't twist my words fir. Discussion is great but day one discussion is usually useless cause it ends up a blind lynch anyway.

So you're saying that we shouldn't discuss at all day 1? Gee I wonder how much info we could get from that. :3

I'll go ahead and unvote sheep but I want to hear naxus' answer to this before I come to a decision on this wagon.

[safariguy5]

Something just doesn't seem right with naxus, he's usually not this combative. Iliad's case is interesting, but he's not been particularly active either, so I think waiting on pressuring him should be ok.

And Fir seems to have cornered naxus on his statement, I didn't think it was twisting words. Discussion is necessary any day, even Day 1.

[Iliad]

It does look like Naxus tried to prove his town status and jumped at the opportunity.

Regardless strike wasn't in any danger, and neither did sheeps vote put him in any. It would've been nice if the joke votes continued, but I guess we're through on the other side now.

For someone who says that the joke vote stage was so much fun, you surely weren't an active participant in it. I just re-read the whole thread, and I didn't see any joke votes that popped out at me- that were composed by you. And I didn't even think the joke vote stage in this game was funny. I think you are normally a very articulate player. If you truly meant that you were just going to miss the joke vote phase, because you thought it was so hilarious- i think you would have phrased the wording in your post better. Fir called you out on it first, and saf said it was miscommunication- but i don't think so.

And FOS Sheep, because I think he probably lost count and thought that he hammered.

And yes i realize it sounds like I'm rambling a bit- but its late at night, and I'm operating on about 5 hours sleep. So my apologies if I'm incoherent. Hopefully you get the gist of what I'm trying to say.

And before I forgot.
Unvote
Vote Illiad

Not sure what the case against me here is. If you did you read back you would've seen how I did participate in the joke vote stage and I did joke vote so you must've skimmed if you missed mine, however a day after my joke vote sheep's vote and naxus overreaction happened, ending the joke vote stage. So I enjoyed the joke vote stage while it happened, and thought it was pretty fun.

Vio's case, which many people are praising, is that according to her neither the joking vote stage was that funny, which is a matter of opinion and I thought it was fairly fun, and that I didn't participate in it, which is untrue, and that means I could not have possible enjoyed the joke vote stage if I hadn't posted, which regardless is also untrue.

[naxus]

Now don't twist my words fir. Discussion is great but day one discussion is usually useless cause it ends up a blind lynch anyway.

So you're saying that we shouldn't discuss at all day 1? Gee I wonder how much info we could get from that. :3

I'll go ahead and unvote sheep but I want to hear naxus' answer to this before I come to a decision on this wagon.

Im not saying we shouldn't discuss day but that in 9/10s of all mafia games, the day one lynch is random. Only real good lynches happen off of a newbie slip up D1. And fir is screwing with me and its not funny

Also best quote

Jayne:Since the captain's gone im in command. Thats the Chain of Command right?
Zoe:No thats not it at all. Im in command.
Jayne:No you dont understand. The chain of command is the chain I grab and beat you with while taking command

[Fircoal]

Now don't twist my words fir. Discussion is great but day one discussion is usually useless cause it ends up a blind lynch anyway.

So you're saying that we shouldn't discuss at all day 1? Gee I wonder how much info we could get from that. :3

I'll go ahead and unvote sheep but I want to hear naxus' answer to this before I come to a decision on this wagon.

Im not saying we shouldn't discuss day but that in 9/10s of all mafia games, the day one lynch is random. Only real good lynches happen off of a newbie slip up D1. And fir is screwing with me and its not funny

So just because D1 is usually random we should continue to make it random? You don't even wanna try to make a D1 based off of facts. Also you again fail to note the effect that it has on the later game. Try again.

[strike wolf]

Can we get a vote count?

Naxus' responses have been pretty bad so far. Fircoal did exaggerate a little on his first accusation about you but your posts since have sounded like weakly veiled attempts to hide that what fircoal is saying is actually the case. I also find it a bit ironic because your post on sheep was among the deciding factors that transfered the joke vote stage over to the discussion stage.

Safari how is naxus acting "combative"?

[naxus]

Now don't twist my words fir. Discussion is great but day one discussion is usually useless cause it ends up a blind lynch anyway.

So you're saying that we shouldn't discuss at all day 1? Gee I wonder how much info we could get from that. :3

I'll go ahead and unvote sheep but I want to hear naxus' answer to this before I come to a decision on this wagon.

Im not saying we shouldn't discuss day but that in 9/10s of all mafia games, the day one lynch is random. Only real good lynches happen off of a newbie slip up D1. And fir is screwing with me and its not funny

So just because D1 is usually random we should continue to make it random? You don't even wanna try to make a D1 based off of facts. Also you again fail to note the effect that it has on the later game. Try again.

I never said that it didn't affect late game, I just said the lynch is random. Trying to really build a case on the usual D1 stuff that happens is flimsy at best. Also what facts are you referring too?

@strike I appreciate the irony in that statement but it still sucks

[Fircoal]

So you're saying that we shouldn't discuss at all day 1? Gee I wonder how much info we could get from that. :3

I'll go ahead and unvote sheep but I want to hear naxus' answer to this before I come to a decision on this wagon.

Im not saying we shouldn't discuss day but that in 9/10s of all mafia games, the day one lynch is random. Only real good lynches happen off of a newbie slip up D1. And fir is screwing with me and its not funny

So just because D1 is usually random we should continue to make it random? You don't even wanna try to make a D1 based off of facts. Also you again fail to note the effect that it has on the later game. Try again.

I never said that it didn't affect late game, I just said the lynch is random. Trying to really build a case on the usual D1 stuff that happens is flimsy at best. Also what facts are you referring too?

@strike I appreciate the irony in that statement but it still sucks

You don't get what I'm saying. Ok let's say that we decide to pick a random lynch. Everyone goes along with it and the person's role is X. How much info have we gained? Not much. Now let's say that A and B are trying really hard to get C lynched, but D is trying to lynch the submariner E. F and G aren't even around, and H, I and J seem to be dominating the conversation all thinking each other are scummy. No matter who is lynched it'll give us quite a bit information on the others based on where they place themselves, who they align with, what they try to do. It doesn't really matter what this Day 1 lynch comes from as long as we can extract infos from it. By facts I mean the scum tells that pop up. The things that make you seem scummier than me for example. You seem to want to ignore them and just go with random.

Oh and if you think that D1 is just gonna be random no matter what, then why are you trying to get sheep lynched. Surely you're not going to find any "significant" tells on him so why even bother. I mean it's gonna be random in the end right?

[Streaker]

I agree with naxus. Day 1 lynches are part random, because of the lack of evidence. You seem to use this as the main reason not to lynch you. The discussion with Fir isn't doing you much good either.

Lynching naxus is as good random as any other, even better. He's acting must scummy, and real evidence is hard to find Day 1.

I'll hold off voting until I see the VC though.

[edocsil]

Vote Count
16 alive 9 to lynch

Mandalorian () ~
Jeraado (1) ~ Campin Killer
Streaker () ~
Safariguy5 () ~
Naxus (4) ~ Fircoal, Safariguy5, Commander9, Anarkistsdream
Sheepofdumb (2) ~ Naxus, Strike Wolf
Anarkistsdream () ~
Fircoal (1) ~ Mandalorian
Commander9 () ~
ShaggyDan () ~
Soundman () ~
Iliad () ~ VioIet
VioIet () ~
Nagerous () ~
Campin Killer () ~
Strike Wolf (3) ~ VioIet, Soundman, Iliad

[Streaker]

Right. Vote naxus

And now I silently wait for the wagon on me, because I am the 5th on the wagon...

[ShaggyDan]

Vote Streaker for being 5th on the wagon... and because he expects it.

I agree 100% with Fircoal's post against random voting. On top of all the reasons he said (information, patterns, etc.) at the very least you can vote off who is doing the least scum-hunting, adding confusion or generally just giving a scummy vibe. Information helps town, silence helps scum.

I've only skimmed recently, been busy with RL (and 12-gauge mafia when I'm on here). Will re-read and hopefully have some firmer thoughts on people soon. Sorry guys.

[naxus]

Ok my vote on sheep was not me trying to get him lynched, I just threw a vote out there because he was a tad scummy. I havn't built a case against someone who has only really jokevoted and hasn't posted since saturday

It doesn't really matter what this Day 1 lynch comes from as long as we can extract infos from it.

Thats what i'm saying.

[safariguy5]

Now don't twist my words fir. Discussion is great but day one discussion is usually useless cause it ends up a blind lynch anyway.

That to me sounded unusual for naxus, I don't remember him being this strong on language. Aggressive sounding post to me. I'm still with fircoal on this one, if nothing else, the naxus wagon has begun delineating some of the different sides that people are on. However, naxus seems really uncomfortable in this position, something that townies usually don't react to quite as defensively.

[VioIet]

I agree with naxus. Day 1 lynches are part random, because of the lack of evidence. You seem to use this as the main reason not to lynch you. The discussion with Fir isn't doing you much good either.

Lynching naxus is as good random as any other, even better. He's acting must scummy, and real evidence is hard to find Day 1.

I'll hold off voting until I see the VC though.

Hmm, it is just me, or do I detect some holes in this post?

So first you are saying that you agree with Naxuxs' but then you say that you want to lynch him. You say he is acting scummy for posing an argument you agree with. Perhaps I just misunderstood your post, but those are the thoughts i gathered after first reading it.

Ok my vote on sheep was not me trying to get him lynched, I just threw a vote out there because he was a tad scummy. I havn't built a case against someone who has only really jokevoted and hasn't posted since saturday

It doesn't really matter what this Day 1 lynch comes from as long as we can extract infos from it.

Thats what i'm saying.

Naxus, sorry if I am making you repeat it- but I would like to know your thoughts about sheep's scumminess. Perhaps you can make a case about him.

I thought sheep was quite scummy also, and everyone seems to have overlooked him. And I am almost positive that sheep thought he hammered. He was just very very eager there.

I would've voted him, if i hadn't voted for Illiad. I know there isn't much for much on his case right now- but i just have a feeling that something is amiss here. And those inner feelings are rarely wrong. For instance- in every game that I accuse Fir of being mafia and make lots of cases against him- he actually turns up being mafia 50% of the time.

[sheepofdumb]

I know that if I hammered with a vote like that one day 1 my head would be on a silver platter day 2. I'm not that stupid. It was a pure joke vote. When the threshold was crossed there was no reason to hold on to a vote like that. I either look scummy backpedaling or I look scummy for defending a joke vote so close to lynch. Not a situation I usually like to be in but it was for the lulz. Gotta make some sacrifices sometimes for comedy.

[Streaker]

Vio, I agree with Naxus on the part where he says day 1 lynches are at least part random. There is little to go on, so guessing is involved. What strikes me about naxus is how he literally states DAY 1DISCUSSION IS USELESS

safari sums it up nicely right here:

Now don't twist my words fir. Discussion is great but day one discussion is usually useless cause it ends up a blind lynch anyway.

That to me sounded unusual for naxus, I don't remember him being this strong on language. Aggressive sounding post to me. I'm still with fircoal on this one, if nothing else, the naxus wagon has begun delineating some of the different sides that people are on. However, naxus seems really uncomfortable in this position, something that townies usually don't react to quite as defensively.

Also, this post has a few things about it:

Ok my vote on sheep was not me trying to get him lynched, I just threw a vote out there because he was a tad scummy. I havn't built a case against someone who has only really jokevoted and hasn't posted since saturday

It doesn't really matter what this Day 1 lynch comes from as long as we can extract infos from it.

Thats what i'm saying.

First, naxus says his vote on sheep was not with the intent to lynch. Next, he says he thinks sheep acted scummy. Anyone else see the contradiction?

What you ARE saying, is that you don't seem to like discussion right now. Where will we get the extract infos from then?