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POTC Mafia Game Thread Day 7 Town Win! Premium goes to Sully

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Re: POTC Mafia Game Thread Day 1

Postby Falkomagno on Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:41 pm

freezie wrote:
freezie wrote:
Falkomagno wrote:
Joke vote?? or please elaborate...


Well, with about 20 votes in the last 8 pages, you target mine for an elaboration? That's kinda quick on the defensive boy..

YOU will need to elaborate your action, not me. FoS: Falko



What about this falko? Avoiding my question and voting for an inactive?

Do you really want to crawl back under your shell after going out wrongly once?


I didn't notice this post. why do you think that is defensive? Ask for explanation is a defensive move? I just want to clarify if there is some solid doubts which deserve a vote, or if we're still in the joke voting. You think that that kind of information is irrelevant? or are you just trying to make some noise?
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Re: POTC Mafia Game Thread Day 1

Postby Mr. Squirrel on Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:54 pm

pancakemix wrote:I'm not really a fan of the "Hell, why not?" attitude on the Victor wagon. Yes, the logic behind how wagons move is correct, but to be so nonchalant about it strikes me as a bit odd.

I agree. Hence, why I didn't join it or discourage it. Inactivity can be used as a way to catch scum, but it is not the only way. It seems like everyone is jumping on inactives just because it is easy and makes it look like they are helping town. I would throw a vote on one of them, but there are so many that I don't really see the point.
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Re: POTC Mafia Game Thread Day 1

Postby Commander9 on Tue Mar 22, 2011 11:19 pm

Mr. Squirrel wrote:I agree. Hence, why I didn't join it or discourage it. Inactivity can be used as a way to catch scum, but it is not the only way. It seems like everyone is jumping on inactives just because it is easy and makes it look like they are helping town. I would throw a vote on one of them, but there are so many that I don't really see the point.


As I've pointed out, I thought one was a bit worse than others, but I generally agree with what you've just said.
But... It was so artistically done.
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Re: POTC Mafia Game Thread Day 1

Postby Victor Sullivan on Tue Mar 22, 2011 11:38 pm

VioIet wrote:My point was more or less, that it seemed like Victor just posted his typical "oh sorry, i've been away, will catch up soon."

I was hoping to get two posts from him by this point. To me it looks like just a simple post, that will be the last one we get for a week, then he will come back and make another simple post that has nothing to do with any of the topics at hand.

*Peeks out from behind a bush* Hey, guys! Sorry, was finishing up Dispatch business. Anywho, this may come a bit shocking, but I find that strike wolf seems to be the most subtly shady character of the bunch. He voted for me - fine, I get it, I was lacking in my posting. The recent comments I find most disturbing - saying that no one on my bandwagon was scummy while he himself was on the bandwagon, just seems like a way to say he's innocent with out outright saying it. In addition, this could be an effort to protect people of his faction (I say faction, as the description of the game indicated multiple win conditions). Also, targeting people who've defended me may be an indirect attempt at hindering me, and it could have been his actual intention to lynch me. Anywho, I feel like what I've explained doesn't entirely communicate my reasons for targeting him, but hopefully you understand. In conclusion, unvote vote strike wolf.
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Re: POTC Mafia Game Thread Day 1

Postby strike wolf on Tue Mar 22, 2011 11:52 pm

So not going after you and agreeing that one of the people who was voting you agrees with that theory how?
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Re: POTC Mafia Game Thread Day 1

Postby strike wolf on Tue Mar 22, 2011 11:52 pm

strike wolf wrote:So not going after you and agreeing that one of the people who was voting you agrees with that theory how?


ebwop Not going after the people who defended you.
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Re: POTC Mafia Game Thread Day 1

Postby Commander9 on Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:19 am

strike wolf wrote:ebwop Not going after the people who defended you.


To be fair, if you had done, that would've been rather scummy and quite likely earnt a quick BW on you. You're a better player than that.
But... It was so artistically done.
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Re: POTC Mafia Game Thread Day 1

Postby VioIet on Wed Mar 23, 2011 2:17 am

strike wolf wrote:Maybe a bit I guess you could say. I was fairly confident that it wouldn't come to a lynch and that if it somehow did it was probably hi own fault so I guess I might have been a little bit lax in my approach but I still find it to have been a valid move at the time, if for no other reason to draw attention to an inactive so the mod could deal with it. And while I don't think Victor or anyone who defended him (aggressively, passively, or one stand alone remark) came out looking that much more suspicious I do think that it did present a few interesting arguments so I have no problem with it. Especially as I think Streaker is a legitimate day 1 lead to at least explain his part on the wagon.



This is one thing i have never quite understood. A lot of posters say that they like to point out the inactives to help the mod. Normally the mod is the most active person in the game. I am sure they read through and re-read through the thread, more than anybody. Likewise- i'm sure the mod notices who is inactive before we even notice. So never quite understood that line of thought. I think it is something that people say just to say.

With that said,

I wonder who else is inactive besides Fircoal.
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Re: POTC Mafia Game Thread Day 1

Postby Streaker on Wed Mar 23, 2011 3:30 am

strike wolf wrote:Maybe a bit I guess you could say. I was fairly confident that it wouldn't come to a lynch and that if it somehow did it was probably hi own fault so I guess I might have been a little bit lax in my approach but I still find it to have been a valid move at the time, if for no other reason to draw attention to an inactive so the mod could deal with it. And while I don't think Victor or anyone who defended him (aggressively, passively, or one stand alone remark) came out looking that much more suspicious I do think that it did present a few interesting arguments so I have no problem with it. Especially as I think Streaker is a legitimate day 1 lead to at least explain his part on the wagon.


Ugh. I had my response ready when the downtime hit...

I find it odd that you deem me a legitimate case, when you are doing the exact same thing. You wanted to push Victor into posting, just like me.

You say:

strike wolf wrote:unvote semiserious vote victor he's been on at least twice since game started but hasn't confirmed.


I say:

Streaker wrote:It's a big game, and with a lynch at 11 there's nothing wrong with a wagon. Victor isn't active, and it's obvious he is ignoring this game.
At the very least we can draw his attention to the game, and if he doesn't show up or get replaced we can hang him. If he does show up the wagon moves...
I know i'm repetitive of above posts, but it's how I feel.

Unvote, vote Victor


Here is where I back my vote up, and where I state to unvote once Victor starts posting.
Victor came in, I unvoted. Just like wolf did. Yes, my vote was a little more serious then wolf's vote, but still.
I smell a double standard...

There is no harm in a small wagon (with less then half the votes required for a lynch) on Day 1. At the very least it will both get the inactives to post, and get conversation moving. Both worked.

I hate making an extensive post just to defend a simple vote on an inactive, when I even unvoted once he showed up...
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Re: POTC Mafia Game Thread Day 1

Postby mandalorian2298 on Wed Mar 23, 2011 6:10 am

unvote vote Commander 9. The reason is of a metagaming nature :oops: : in Buffy Commander9 also jumped into insane defense mode and protected Nark like a long lost love. I think his strategy is based on:

1. protectin X who is not in Mafia with him.
2. Killing X to prove X's townishness.
3. The fact that Commander protected a Townie proves that he himself is a Townie.
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Re: POTC Mafia Game Thread Day 1

Postby edocsil on Wed Mar 23, 2011 7:05 am

mandalorian2298 wrote:unvote vote Commander 9. The reason is of a metagaming nature :oops: : in Buffy Commander9 also jumped into insane defense mode and protected Nark like a long lost love. I think his strategy is based on:

1. protectin X who is not in Mafia with him.
2. Killing X to prove X's townishness.
3. The fact that Commander protected a Townie proves that he himself is a Townie.


? Would that by your logic make him scum? And how do you know anyone's alignment already?
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Re: POTC Mafia Game Thread Day 1

Postby mandalorian2298 on Wed Mar 23, 2011 7:47 am

edocsil wrote:
mandalorian2298 wrote:unvote vote Commander 9. The reason is of a metagaming nature :oops: : in Buffy Commander9 also jumped into insane defense mode and protected Nark like a long lost love. I think his strategy is based on:

1. protectin X who is not in Mafia with him.
2. Killing X to prove X's townishness.
3. The fact that Commander protected a Townie proves that he himself is a Townie.


? Would that by your logic make him scum? And how do you know anyone's alignment already?


FOS edocsil for skimming. It really makes me tired that for every post I have to write two more posts explaining what I said in the original one. :x Read carefully what I have written and you will see that I claim nothing of the sort.
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Re: POTC Mafia Game Thread Day 1

Postby edocsil on Wed Mar 23, 2011 8:00 am

mandalorian2298 wrote:
edocsil wrote:
mandalorian2298 wrote:unvote vote Commander 9. The reason is of a metagaming nature :oops: : in Buffy Commander9 also jumped into insane defense mode and protected Nark like a long lost love. I think his strategy is based on:

1. protectin X who is not in Mafia with him.
2. Killing X to prove X's townishness.
3. The fact that Commander protected a Townie proves that he himself is a Townie.


? Would that by your logic make him scum? And how do you know anyone's alignment already?


FOS edocsil for skimming. It really makes me tired that for every post I have to write two more posts explaining what I said in the original one. :x Read carefully what I have written and you will see that I claim nothing of the sort.


I bolded it for you. I obviously get it now, but you have two conflicting statements there.
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Re: POTC Mafia Game Thread Day 1

Postby Haggis_McMutton on Wed Mar 23, 2011 8:32 am

edocsil wrote:
mandalorian2298 wrote:
edocsil wrote:
mandalorian2298 wrote:unvote vote Commander 9. The reason is of a metagaming nature :oops: : in Buffy Commander9 also jumped into insane defense mode and protected Nark like a long lost love. I think his strategy is based on:

1. protectin X who is not in Mafia with him.
2. Killing X to prove X's townishness.
3. The fact that Commander protected a Townie proves that he himself is a Townie.


? Would that by your logic make him scum? And how do you know anyone's alignment already?


FOS edocsil for skimming. It really makes me tired that for every post I have to write two more posts explaining what I said in the original one. :x Read carefully what I have written and you will see that I claim nothing of the sort.


I bolded it for you. I obviously get it now, but you have two conflicting statements there.

huh? It might be that we Eastern Europeans are fucked up or something but it seems perfectly clear to me. He's saying he thinks that's Commander's strategy, he obviously doesn't know if Sully's town, but that's the assumption we make, right? Everyone's town untill they act scummy.
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Re: POTC Mafia Game Thread Day 1

Postby Commander9 on Wed Mar 23, 2011 8:33 am

mandalorian2298 wrote:unvote vote Commander 9. The reason is of a metagaming nature :oops: : in Buffy Commander9 also jumped into insane defense mode and protected Nark like a long lost love. I think his strategy is based on:

1. protectin X who is not in Mafia with him.
2. Killing X to prove X's townishness.
3. The fact that Commander protected a Townie proves that he himself is a Townie.


Very interesting that you already know that Sully is town - would you mind pointing out how? Also, would you point where I said that Sully is town? I've pointed that the BW on him doesn't make sense and that some people on it are likely to be scum.

FoS for misusing logic and trying to divert attention.

EDIT: Haggis, I'm from Eastern Europe too and I think that this logic is false.
But... It was so artistically done.
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Re: POTC Mafia Game Thread Day 1

Postby Iliad on Wed Mar 23, 2011 8:36 am

VioIet wrote:People keep mentioning that when Victor comes to the thread and posts, then we will move on to another target. I agree- except that- we don't exactly have another target. Victor is it. Until now, the game had been in the joke vote stage- and this is the welcome transition.

With a big game, and at this rate, and knowing Victor- he is probably already doomed to be the first lynch.

The thing about mafia is that cases aren't handed to us, they're noticed and brought to attention as a result of discussion. While the case against victor may have been light, the people who leapt to his attack or defense reveal useful information.

People have singled out streaker on that short bandwagon, but I think that's simplifying the issue and downplaying the role of others. More interestingly I find commander9's quick defence of victor. He was at 4 votes and not in any real danger, but commander quickly defended him perhaps afraid of a quick bandwagon escalating. This could be due to anarkists theory that he is trying to get into town's graces by loudly protecting a townie, but it could be a more basic need to protect a teammate, perhaps a more important one.

Other interesting leads I've found is falkomagno's skimming evident of his response to freezie's vote on vio, perhaps his query about freezie's seriousness is him testing whether vio is in trouble or not, I hardly see reason why someone would single out a single vote on a random person and demand whether it's serious.

Also vio has been quite interesting as well. She's been fairly active but also going through the motions, quickly accepting victor's lynch as inevitable and doesn't that intersted in offering her own opinion to discussions or changing the course of the discussion. Almost as if she only wants town to go about and lynch whoever and go to night.

Small and fairly weak leads for now, but still fairly interesting by now. I've noticed a few early connections such as commander- victor and vio-falko, but that could also be due to the nature of the theme of the game. Considering how much the movies, especially by the third one, had complicated manipulative systems where characters relied and used others, and the tangle of romantic interests it's quite possible for a number of connections.

edit: about anarkists theory that people are misunderstanding. He's saying that commander's logic is that to pick to defend someone who he knows is town aligned, since he isn't part of his mafia, and to defend him vigorously. Then kill that person off, to prove his pro-town alignment and therefore associate himself with him and hopefully that the others will assume his town nature because of that.
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Re: POTC Mafia Game Thread Day 1

Postby Haggis_McMutton on Wed Mar 23, 2011 8:38 am

Commander9 wrote:EDIT: Haggis, I'm from Eastern Europe too and I think that this logic is false.


Well, it's obviously far-fetched. But it's internally consistent, that's what I'm saying. He didn't contradict himself.
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Re: POTC Mafia Game Thread Day 1

Postby Commander9 on Wed Mar 23, 2011 8:43 am

Haggis_McMutton wrote:Well, it's obviously far-fetched. But it's internally consistent, that's what I'm saying. He didn't contradict himself.


The theory is consistent, but the logic is false. Basically, if at any time I defend a person I'm game, I'm scum, because I'm supposedly using that strategy which he has not even seen me using (we've played one game together). I think what this is him feeling the heat and trying to get rid of the dangers soon... It would also make sense knowing his manipulative nature to start on early and work out those who might catch him early (basically, that of an aggressive scum).
But... It was so artistically done.
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Re: POTC Mafia Game Thread Day 1

Postby strike wolf on Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:08 am

For anyone who still doesn't understand. What mandy is saying is that for his theory to be accurate than victor would have to be town. He is not claiming to already know that victor is town. The actual theory I do not feel holds that much weight. While I have seen commander aggressively defend a town player when he was scum, I've also seen him aggressively defend someone in games where he is town. So it's a bit of a gray area in my opinion.
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Re: POTC Mafia Game Thread Day 1

Postby Commander9 on Wed Mar 23, 2011 10:37 am

strike wolf wrote:For anyone who still doesn't understand. What mandy is saying is that for his theory to be accurate than victor would have to be town. He is not claiming to already know that victor is town. The actual theory I do not feel holds that much weight. While I have seen commander aggressively defend a town player when he was scum, I've also seen him aggressively defend someone in games where he is town. So it's a bit of a gray area in my opinion.


And we've also seen Mandy aggressively make cases both when he's pro-town and scum... and lots of other people would do same things with different alignments. The way Mandy was trying to twist that to fit his theory is why I find it so scummy.
But... It was so artistically done.
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Re: POTC Mafia Game Thread Day 1

Postby strike wolf on Wed Mar 23, 2011 10:51 am

On the other hand you do seem to be going after anyone who challenges your viewpoints fairly aggressively.
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Re: POTC Mafia Game Thread Day 1

Postby Commander9 on Wed Mar 23, 2011 10:59 am

strike wolf wrote:On the other hand you do seem to be going after anyone who challenges your viewpoints fairly aggressively.


Don't I always? I'll take Mandy's try to incriminate me and all of this attention as a compliment.
But... It was so artistically done.
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Re: POTC Mafia Game Thread Day 1

Postby mandalorian2298 on Wed Mar 23, 2011 11:27 am

strike wolf wrote:For anyone who still doesn't understand. What mandy is saying is that for his theory to be accurate than victor would have to be town. He is not claiming to already know that victor is town. The actual theory I do not feel holds that much weight. While I have seen commander aggressively defend a town player when he was scum, I've also seen him aggressively defend someone in games where he is town. So it's a bit of a gray area in my opinion.


No mate, he just musn't be a part of Commander's Mafia (given the theme there are most certainly at least two separate scum factions if not more and probably some third partier's as well).

Haggis, I compliment you on your keen understanding of my meaning =D> , but I have to ask: Since when is Scotland in Eastern Europe? Have you guys been demoted or something? :lol:
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Re: POTC Mafia Game Thread Day 1

Postby Commander9 on Wed Mar 23, 2011 11:49 am

mandalorian2298 wrote:No mate, he just musn't be a part of Commander's Mafia (given the theme there are most certainly at least two separate scum factions if not more and probably some third partier's as well).

Haggis, I compliment you on your keen understanding of my meaning =D> , but I have to ask: Since when is Scotland in Eastern Europe? Have you guys been demoted or something? :lol:


That's definitely possible, but this kind of speculation also is not going to get us anywhere on Day 1 - we have absolutely no information about the setup as of yet.

Well, I'd personally wouldn't even call Croatia as a part of Eastern Europe, but this is internet... and I gave up already :lol: As long as they get the continent right, I'll be happy.
But... It was so artistically done.
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Re: POTC Mafia Game Thread Day 1

Postby safariguy5 on Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:27 pm

Announcement
I prodded fircoal yesterday, will prod cena today.

Oh and, there's about a week left before deadline. (March 31)
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