Battle of the Bulge - CLOSED

[jak111]

Jak, you are saying I am scummy for thinking someone else who you also think is scummy is scummy. Obviously that saf is town is a possibility, but I don't think it is likely - and neither do you!

Second. You asked chap for a claim. If i ask clever for a claim, is he obliged to give it? No, since I am only one person. It requires a BW to ask someone for a claim, and I helped you towards that end. Perhaps it was a flurry of thought, but if you read it in slow motion, it should make perfect sense.

Finally, knowing who you saved can help me catch you in a lie. If you say you targetted clever last night, but the town watcher didn't see you at clever's them we know something is up. If safari guy is on your scummy list but you protected safari guy then we know something is up. You are correct that it can help mafia, but incorrect as to how it can help mafia. It will help mafia in that if you protected one of them, they know they are doing something right and will continue to buddy with you. So, unless you think that you protected mafia last night, there is no reason to withhold the information. Now, it is possible that something with actions is amiss, like a bus driver or something. The more we know to that end, the better.

It is one thing to think they are scummy, but to only think the possible outcomes are scummy I'd need some sort of solid evidence to work on. With your post Doom I am willing to bet that either you or Saf are mafia while the other is town.

Well seeing as I didn't save anyone and the people on my top 3 list are the ones really asking me for the information, I do not feel the need for anyone to know.


Onto Ragian, why does every time you come in to post it's to derail people away from information yet you say you seek information. If you know something we do not, please, bring it to the table, otherwise bring a case or bring help in getting information, otherwise besides messing with people your posts are not useful for us to get further into the game.

Finally onto the Chuck post. Don't take my word on things, go back and re-read the past 10 pages or so.

[Ragian]

@Jak, I don't see me derailing anything. I stated what I found with the information put forward. If that collides with how you see things, then tough titty. It's not derailing things to disagree. You're not the only townie, you know.

Also, if new guy1 (whom I believe looks the scummiest - and that's not even particularly scummy - hence my vote) is pressured for a claim, how is that not information? I also disagreed with your reluctance to bring forward your night action. That would be information too. If anything, you're derailing the information train by not wanting to disclose what you know. Doom already pointed out a few reasons that all speak for you disclosing your information.

[jak111]

Not all speak, only you, Doom, Saf, and I believe Chap. 4 people, 3 of whom are on my list, therefore as many others can see what I mean of my information being potentially good for scum. Btw, how can all speak for me disclosing my information when a few have already stated that they can see why I'm not doing it and are not pressuring me to do so because it can be bad for town if scum know where the doc is hanging around.

As for the new guy thing, I read that and forgot it a second later.

[shieldgenerator7]

this kind of makes me wish I had gotten a mafia role this game so I'd know how accurate these lists everyone's posting are. Either I'd be freakin out like in Night Before Christmas mafia or I'd be laughing my head off like in Power Role Draft.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and VOTE DOOM. I believe jak and his claim and I agree with him about not claiming his night action. If he said who he protected he might not be as effective tonight. Doom is not only one of the people trying to get jak to spill the beans but also announced jak's role to the whole game, which was cummy but swept under the rug. I want a claim from doomyoshi. So far he doesn't seem very town.

Ok, now to come up with a case on him so he can defend himself: Doom, assuming jak is town doc (no evidence suggests he isn't), how would knowing his night action help you, as town (if you are town), at all?

ragian is derailing the game? haha I don't see how...

-SG7 ( )

[Some7hingCLEVER]

this kind of makes me wish I had gotten a mafia role this game so I'd know how accurate these lists everyone's posting are. Either I'd be freakin out like in Night Before Christmas mafia or I'd be laughing my head off like in Power Role Draft.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and VOTE DOOM. I believe jak and his claim and I agree with him about not claiming his night action. If he said who he protected he might not be as effective tonight. Doom is not only one of the people trying to get jak to spill the beans but also announced jak's role to the whole game, which was cummy but swept under the rug. I want a claim from doomyoshi. So far he doesn't seem very town.

Ok, now to come up with a case on him so he can defend himself: Doom, assuming jak is town doc (no evidence suggests he isn't), how would knowing his night action help you, as town (if you are town), at all?

ragian is derailing the game? haha I don't see how...

-SG7 ( )

i love when cases are put togethor in one post it makes my life alot easier.
i believe the doc claim and he shouldnt tell who he protected. and now that you point it out i do see doom is pushing and outed him as well. and with 6 days left im willing to attempt a claim.unvote if needed and vote doom

[new guy1]

@Ragian- If anything, this puzzled me a bit:

new guy1 wrote:
I saw him calling me out. As far as that, I was not concerned about it as it is one vote and has relitively no merit in my opinion. As far as SK/vig, I find it much more likely an SK did it as I have always been told Vigs shouldnt shoot night 1. When talking about chapcrap, I dont think he looks particularly scummy but I will keep an eye on him and would not be against a claim from him, though I think we should limit our claims for today so that we dont out unessesary power roles. I believe that covers basically all conversations and if it doesnt then someone point it out and Ill give my take on it.

I reckon it's not supposed to be "out unnecessary power roles", but something more along the lines of "out power roles unnecessarily". Also, I found it somewhat weird that new guy wants to limit the claims today, but is alright with chap claiming. It's somewhat weird to me because this day has almost just started and if you want to limit the claims today, why focus on the one you don't find particularly scummy? Humm ... I seem to have persuaded myself vote new guy1. Throw in the last bit where he says that if he hasn't addressed everything, people should point it out to him too. I would suggest that you keep up instead

Let's see if there's merit in two votes. (Seems I did have something to add after all )

It is supposed to be as you said, Im sorry that I word it differently then you wish, oh wait no Im not. You find it wierd that I gave reasoning (not outting powerroles) as to why we should limit claiming and then saying Im okay with chap claiming? I said limit, not have none. Why focus on the person I find scummy? Oh I dont know, to get a claim? I explained why I needed someone (if they could remember an issue I missed) to explain it to me so I could answer. Im sorry I dont want to read through ALL of day two again just to find out that I covered everything. I dont have the time nor patience to do that in ANY game.

[DoomYoshi]

Ok, now to come up with a case on him so he can defend himself: Doom, assuming jak is town doc (no evidence suggests he isn't), how would knowing his night action help you, as town (if you are town), at all?

If jak is town, it doesn't help much, save to see the opposite end of the spectrum. We have all posted top 3 most scummy, but none have posted top 3 townie. That information might help a bit in piecing together inter-player relations.

The main thing is that it can't hurt unless jak protected mafia. Jak's reluctance to part with the information means he thinks he targetted mafia. So I would like to know who he targetted to see who he thinks is mafia.

In the end, I don't actually care about the information. I am sure he can bring it forth later if it is pertain invent. I just don't like to let his bs reasons pass as logic without calling them out. Think of this as a "butter battle book" scenario. It really doesn't matter one way or the other; I am just here to fight stupidity (or stupidly).

As far as saf goes, I know I am in the current process of scummifying my town MO. Perhaps he is in the same process. That would explain why he has appeared so scummy and could still be town. I guess it is possible. What is particularly interesting is that chap is also trying to set saf as a target. Is this a bussing case?

[Ragian]

@Ragian- If anything, this puzzled me a bit:

It is supposed to be as you said, Im sorry that I word it differently then you wish, oh wait no Im not.

So "out unnecessary power roles" and "out power roles unnecessarily" is the same? Is that what you're saying? To me you call power roles indifferent instead of saying that we shouldn't out power roles, but semantics aside ...

You find it wierd that I gave reasoning (not outting powerroles) as to why we should limit claiming and then saying Im okay with chap claiming? I said limit, not have none. Why focus on the person I find scummy? Oh I dont know, to get a claim?

1) This is what you said:

When talking about chapcrap, I dont think he looks particularly scummy but I will keep an eye on him and would not be against a claim from him.

2) I found it weird that you voted for the first guy you mentioned when you also said that you wouldn't want too many claims. Besides you said that you DIDN'T find him particularly scummy. If you want to limit the claims, why don't you want someone you DO find particularly scummy to be pressured for a claim instead?

[everywhere116]

It is not something I am willing to believe, and it is an obvious possibility.

Uh huh.

Ok, now to come up with a case on him so he can defend himself: Doom, assuming jak is town doc (no evidence suggests he isn't), how would knowing his night action help you, as town (if you are town), at all?

If jak is town, it doesn't help much, save to see the opposite end of the spectrum. We have all posted top 3 most scummy, but none have posted top 3 townie. That information might help a bit in piecing together inter-player relations.

The main thing is that it can't hurt unless jak protected mafia. Jak's reluctance to part with the information means he thinks he targetted mafia. So I would like to know who he targetted to see who he thinks is mafia.

In the end, I don't actually care about the information. I am sure he can bring it forth later if it is pertain invent. I just don't like to let his bs reasons pass as logic without calling them out. Think of this as a "butter battle book" scenario. It really doesn't matter one way or the other; I am just here to fight stupidity (or stupidly).

As far as saf goes, I know I am in the current process of scummifying my town MO. Perhaps he is in the same process. That would explain why he has appeared so scummy and could still be town. I guess it is possible. What is particularly interesting is that chap is also trying to set saf as a target. Is this a bussing case?

There is no way I can reconcile this post with formal logic.

Unvote, Vote Doom

[chapcrap]

Rodion, I didn't say I had a problem with your play style. I said it was scummy. Why would I take anything up with the game mod about that?

Rodion, what is the point of commenting on old cases if you aren't bringing anything new to the issues? You simply recap issues and haven't been saying anything relevant, just following along the lines with the majority and giving medium length recaps of what has already happened. I would love to see a post where you actually bring something to the table in this game. And I won't give a pass for acting like this, just because you said that's how you were going to play it. That doesn't make any difference. By the time you said that, you already had your role PM. You didn't say that before the game started, so you get no free pass for playing like a scum person.

About Doom, earlier, I asked what the point of jak saying his night action was? I think that Doom answered perfectly and I now agree with him. There is little benefit to the mafia knowing who was protected, but more benefit to town because they can more readily verify jak's claim. Doom should not be considered scummy for advocating that jak reveal his NA.

[jak111]

How is my reasoning BS Doom? If I decide to protect the same person tonight scum will know who to avoid, WHAT IN THAT IS BS? It is not because I think they are scummy who I protected but that I think they are town. I'm not going to put a big arrow on who I decided to be useful to town or risk getting them killed/my action invalid tonight if I give away their name. If you have a problem with me Doom, send a tracker to me, even though it'd waste a valuable night source. Since the watcher or tracker haven't come forward to accuse me of anything, either they didn't see me or they did and seen the person I targeted is still alive, hence, not outting more town roles.

Sorry if my logic makes so much sense that your brain can't comprehend that I'm not 'doing something stupid for once'. To 'varify' my night action to the rest of the town would require ANOTHER townie to out their watcher/tracker role. Hell, if you'd like we could tell everyone who is town to target a single person and see who targets him, while I protect the watcher, but wait a minute, scum can hide in that and still get away with a free kill.

It seems as though Doom and a few others are pushing for outing more power roles than we should for D2. I'll gladly bring forth my information on D3 or D4, depending on when the rest of the power roles decide to out their information so we can put together a list of cleared and uncleared people. But like I said, I'd rather wait for D3 or D4 so we can have more information and catch a few lies.

But hey, I'm a bull shit player for deciding to not outing who I chose to protect N1, right? My reasoning is completely bull shit and should not matter to you. (Sarcasm strongly applied to this sentence).

If you guys want my information, wait for D3 and we'll all out our information, otherwise can it because the less the scum know, the better for now. We got lucky with the vig/sk taking out a nazi, for now I'd like to see if we can get another one before giving out information.

Now if you don't all mind and actually decide my reasoning is enough, let's get more information through pressuring unclaimed sources for tomorrow for our power roles to check out. Tomorrow if other power roles decide it's the time to bring something forth, I'll bring anything I know forth and will protect one of them so the scum are gone.

Tomorrow, or D4, depending when others decide it's time, I'll help compile a list of people with you if I'm still around.

[Leehar]

this kind of makes me wish I had gotten a mafia role this game so I'd know how accurate these lists everyone's posting are. Either I'd be freakin out like in Night Before Christmas mafia or I'd be laughing my head off like in Power Role Draft.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and VOTE DOOM. I believe jak and his claim and I agree with him about not claiming his night action. If he said who he protected he might not be as effective tonight. Doom is not only one of the people trying to get jak to spill the beans but also announced jak's role to the whole game, which was cummy but swept under the rug. I want a claim from doomyoshi. So far he doesn't seem very town.

Ok, now to come up with a case on him so he can defend himself: Doom, assuming jak is town doc (no evidence suggests he isn't), how would knowing his night action help you, as town (if you are town), at all?

ragian is derailing the game? haha I don't see how...

-SG7 ( )

i love when cases are put togethor in one post it makes my life alot easier.
i believe the doc claim and he shouldnt tell who he protected. and now that you point it out i do see doom is pushing and outed him as well. and with 6 days left im willing to attempt a claim.unvote if needed and vote doom

It's a toss up between the 2, but Vote somethingclever

I can honestly say I'm irritated by people resurrecting cases from 50 gazillion pages ago. It's exactly what happened with lynching jg which just frankly wasted 2 weeks of my life for no reason here, and now again you want to go back to a case that was discussed to death more than a month ago and you didn't have anything to offer at that time? Honestly it's just too scummy for me if people like you are just looking to lynch people a millenium after the scum-tells you're apparently basing your decisions on.

[jak111]

this kind of makes me wish I had gotten a mafia role this game so I'd know how accurate these lists everyone's posting are. Either I'd be freakin out like in Night Before Christmas mafia or I'd be laughing my head off like in Power Role Draft.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and VOTE DOOM. I believe jak and his claim and I agree with him about not claiming his night action. If he said who he protected he might not be as effective tonight. Doom is not only one of the people trying to get jak to spill the beans but also announced jak's role to the whole game, which was cummy but swept under the rug. I want a claim from doomyoshi. So far he doesn't seem very town.

Ok, now to come up with a case on him so he can defend himself: Doom, assuming jak is town doc (no evidence suggests he isn't), how would knowing his night action help you, as town (if you are town), at all?

ragian is derailing the game? haha I don't see how...

-SG7 ( )

i love when cases are put togethor in one post it makes my life alot easier.
i believe the doc claim and he shouldnt tell who he protected. and now that you point it out i do see doom is pushing and outed him as well. and with 6 days left im willing to attempt a claim.unvote if needed and vote doom

It's a toss up between the 2, but Vote somethingclever

I can honestly say I'm irritated by people resurrecting cases from 50 gazillion pages ago. It's exactly what happened with lynching jg which just frankly wasted 2 weeks of my life for no reason here, and now again you want to go back to a case that was discussed to death more than a month ago and you didn't have anything to offer at that time? Honestly it's just too scummy for me if people like you are just looking to lynch people a millenium after the scum-tells you're apparently basing your decisions on.

While I think they should have added to it back then Leehar, it must not be forgotten. In this case Doom does something similar to outing the Doc. He wants all the information he can from the doc, why is that? Do YOU not think it odd for first outting the doc and then expecting every bit of whom the doc protects a bit odd? That being said I'm not voting Doom for I think there are better candidates at this moment. Doom is a good scum player, if the first one I played with him even I thought he was town while others didn't, and the second game I just barely got him and New Guy in the end. My guess is if he's scum he'll make a slip from one of those two games I've been in with him.

I can't say I'll be disappointed to see Doom go today but I can say that I believe there are scummier players than him at the moment. Dooms fish will fry if we can get a tracker or someone on him, other than that not much can be done about him for now.

[Rodion]

@Rodion, are you just voting chap because he was second on your list yesterday?

I think you got it right, but just so that there is no misunderstanding, he was actually 3rd (after Gordon and Safari). Gordon is dead and I've already explained how I felt about Saf, so my vote goes to Chap by default.

And is he on your list only for being on your case? (Just trying to understand fully.)

Check the following quote.

Chap - check his vote on Yoshi. Chap fails to understand the difference between the "early D1 jokevoting period" (when reasons are not required to cast a vote) and "post-jokevoting D1" (when reasons ARE required if you wish to get a claim out of someone - the reasons can even be weak in absolute terms, as long as they are strong in relative terms). Chap should know better and his failure to acknowledge something so elementary (he is not a newbie anymore) can only be interpreted as a scumtell (it's a bigger scumtell if Yoshi flips town, smaller if he flips mafia).

As I read your post, doom is your major concern ... well ... obviously he's not since you voted chap, but what I got from your post was that you found doom's leaving out the innocent result possibility alarming, yet it only earns him a FoS where chap earns a vote. Basically, I'm asking why you find chap the most suspicious, I think

I did not cast a "pure" FOS on Doom, but a "conditional" one.

Doom's FOS only stands if Safari flips VT. Then I can interpret that Doom tried to mislead the town by sweeping the possibility that Safari was town under the rug, thus potentially forcing a mislynch. If Safari flips mafia, I have no issue with what Yoshi said (even though it's still wrong), as I'll not accuse him of "trying to mislead the town by sweeping the possibility that Safari was town under the rug, thus potentially forcing a correct mafia lynch".

Rodion, I didn't say I had a problem with your play style. I said it was scummy. Why would I take anything up with the game mod about that?

Rodion, what is the point of commenting on old cases if you aren't bringing anything new to the issues? You simply recap issues and haven't been saying anything relevant, just following along the lines with the majority and giving medium length recaps of what has already happened. I would love to see a post where you actually bring something to the table in this game. And I won't give a pass for acting like this, just because you said that's how you were going to play it. That doesn't make any difference. By the time you said that, you already had your role PM. You didn't say that before the game started, so you get no free pass for playing like a scum person.

I said that on the 2nd day of March. Ghostly sent role PMs on the 18th day of April, 47 days after my disclaimer. Skimming noted.

Now back to the beginning of the post, it can't be perceived as scummy if it was done before role PMs were even sent. You could have an issue with a player preemptively stating he would not participate as much in the first couple of days of the mafia game, which is something you could/should have talked about with the mod during the 47 days that it took between my sign up post and the start of the game.

Non-highlighted part of your post: I'm not sure recapping means what you think it does. I'm not repeating what everyone else has said. I'm mentioning my opinions on a subject and they may or may not "follow along the lines of the majority". You may think I'm not doing anything "original", but I believe I was the first one to mention jgordon's claim seemed fake (while "everyone else" took the easy cop out of mindlessly voting him because "survivors may vote with mafia in LYLO"). I also "originally" realized Yoshi hid the "Saf is town and cop got an innocent" possibility.

To sum it all up, I'm not happy with how you're trying to milk my "inactivity" into "scumminess" through false statements. You just chill and let me post my opinions whenever I feel they are appropriate. I said I'll be back at godspeed come D3.

On an unrelated note, also interesting to see the 180º from Jak. D1 he was "let me just get the most of this day since I'm 100% sure I'll be NKed"; now he is "I'll tell you about that come D3 or D4". Still the doctor, still beyond suspicion, but interesting nonetheless.

[jgordon1111]

ooooohh oooooohh

[shieldgenerator7]

Ok, now to come up with a case on him so he can defend himself: Doom, assuming jak is town doc (no evidence suggests he isn't), how would knowing his night action help you, as town (if you are town), at all?

If jak is town, it doesn't help much, save to see the opposite end of the spectrum. We have all posted top 3 most scummy, but none have posted top 3 townie. That information might help a bit in piecing together inter-player relations.

This part doesn't really answer my question at all but is rather an aside.

The main thing is that it can't hurt unless jak protected mafia. Jak's reluctance to part with the information means he thinks he targetted mafia. So I would like to know who he targetted to see who he thinks is mafia.

How does this only hurt if he protected mafia? Jak says that saying who he doc'd makes a WIFOM loop that makes his role potentially less effective. How is this only harmful if he doc'd mafia last night? Also, if he thinks he targeted mafia, why would he have targeted mafia? This I can answer myself, but I want to hear your answer .

In the end, I don't actually care about the information. I am sure he can bring it forth later if it is pertain invent. I just don't like to let his bs reasons pass as logic without calling them out. Think of this as a "butter battle book" scenario. It really doesn't matter one way or the other; I am just here to fight stupidity (or stupidly).

What reasons of his are bs?

As far as saf goes, I know I am in the current process of scummifying my town MO. Perhaps he is in the same process. That would explain why he has appeared so scummy and could still be town. I guess it is possible. What is particularly interesting is that chap is also trying to set saf as a target. Is this a bussing case?

Sorry for my stupidty but I forget what MO is? And I assume this is a response to something else cause it doesn't really answer my question.

Also, as a NOTE TO THE MAFIA, NKing jak tonight is a bad idea. "But Shield, mafia always traditionally kills the claimed doc after he claims!" Well, last night you didn't, so there goes "traditionally." Also, because we have a vig/SK, the doc may actually help you by blocking the vig/SK kill that may have been intended for your mafia group. "But Shield, the doc may block our kill!!" That's a possibility too, but as you see, the vig/SK has good aim and having a doc around might be handy. Plus, you know all the watchers and trackers and cops are all up on the doc and his place, so there's a high chance you'll be caught if you mess with the doc.
Bottom line: don't kill jak the doc because you need him.

-SG7 ( )

[pmchugh]

On whether jak should out his info I don't really have an opinion. If he is town doc as he says then revealing who he protected could WIFOM out the mafia, but it could be equally effective not to mention and have them wonder themselves. If he is scum then I doubt he was tracked last night anyway, so the information is very easy to fake. So I don't really care, having said that if I was him I would probably reveal.

this kind of makes me wish I had gotten a mafia role this game so I'd know how accurate these lists everyone's posting are. Either I'd be freakin out like in Night Before Christmas mafia or I'd be laughing my head off like in Power Role Draft.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and VOTE DOOM. I believe jak and his claim and I agree with him about not claiming his night action. If he said who he protected he might not be as effective tonight. Doom is not only one of the people trying to get jak to spill the beans but also announced jak's role to the whole game, which was cummy but swept under the rug. I want a claim from doomyoshi. So far he doesn't seem very town.

Ok, now to come up with a case on him so he can defend himself: Doom, assuming jak is town doc (no evidence suggests he isn't), how would knowing his night action help you, as town (if you are town), at all?

ragian is derailing the game? haha I don't see how...

-SG7 ( )

i love when cases are put togethor in one post it makes my life alot easier.
i believe the doc claim and he shouldnt tell who he protected. and now that you point it out i do see doom is pushing and outed him as well. and with 6 days left im willing to attempt a claim.unvote if needed and vote doom

It's a toss up between the 2, but Vote somethingclever

I can honestly say I'm irritated by people resurrecting cases from 50 gazillion pages ago. It's exactly what happened with lynching jg which just frankly wasted 2 weeks of my life for no reason here, and now again you want to go back to a case that was discussed to death more than a month ago and you didn't have anything to offer at that time? Honestly it's just too scummy for me if people like you are just looking to lynch people a millenium after the scum-tells you're apparently basing your decisions on.

This is one of the most sensible posts of the day so far for me. Shield and clever voted doom on very old (and well refuted) evidence and pretty exaggerated logic. Even though I admit doom has been fairly scummy I don't think he has dropped tangible tells and if he has, then you certainly haven't pointed them out. Contrary to lee though I think that shield is more scummy in this instance, especially given his ode to the mafia in the last post. I don't get the point of that other than to make yourself look townie.

unvote vote shield

[safariguy5]

Ok, now to come up with a case on him so he can defend himself: Doom, assuming jak is town doc (no evidence suggests he isn't), how would knowing his night action help you, as town (if you are town), at all?

If jak is town, it doesn't help much, save to see the opposite end of the spectrum. We have all posted top 3 most scummy, but none have posted top 3 townie. That information might help a bit in piecing together inter-player relations.

This part doesn't really answer my question at all but is rather an aside.

The main thing is that it can't hurt unless jak protected mafia. Jak's reluctance to part with the information means he thinks he targetted mafia. So I would like to know who he targetted to see who he thinks is mafia.

How does this only hurt if he protected mafia? Jak says that saying who he doc'd makes a WIFOM loop that makes his role potentially less effective. How is this only harmful if he doc'd mafia last night? Also, if he thinks he targeted mafia, why would he have targeted mafia? This I can answer myself, but I want to hear your answer .

In the end, I don't actually care about the information. I am sure he can bring it forth later if it is pertain invent. I just don't like to let his bs reasons pass as logic without calling them out. Think of this as a "butter battle book" scenario. It really doesn't matter one way or the other; I am just here to fight stupidity (or stupidly).

What reasons of his are bs?

As far as saf goes, I know I am in the current process of scummifying my town MO. Perhaps he is in the same process. That would explain why he has appeared so scummy and could still be town. I guess it is possible. What is particularly interesting is that chap is also trying to set saf as a target. Is this a bussing case?

Sorry for my stupidty but I forget what MO is? And I assume this is a response to something else cause it doesn't really answer my question.

Also, as a NOTE TO THE MAFIA, NKing jak tonight is a bad idea. "But Shield, mafia always traditionally kills the claimed doc after he claims!" Well, last night you didn't, so there goes "traditionally." Also, because we have a vig/SK, the doc may actually help you by blocking the vig/SK kill that may have been intended for your mafia group. "But Shield, the doc may block our kill!!" That's a possibility too, but as you see, the vig/SK has good aim and having a doc around might be handy. Plus, you know all the watchers and trackers and cops are all up on the doc and his place, so there's a high chance you'll be caught if you mess with the doc.
Bottom line: don't kill jak the doc because you need him.

-SG7 ( )

I disagree with the bold statement. WIFOM is WIFOM, it makes no difference on effectiveness of role. Who jak believes is most townie is up to him. Revealing who he protected today sets up a WIFOM, where he could just as easily psych out mafia tonight anyways. The reason I ask for the night action is because information is useful.

Hypothetically, let's say jak is the mafia godfather. He fakeclaims a doc role, and then uses this logic to justify not saying his night actions. Are we gonna give him a free pass because of that? How are we supposed to catch mafia faking night actions if we don't even press them to make up night actions? That's why (as others have mentioned) VT is such a common fakeclaim because you don't have to make up any night actions. If we don't press our outed roles for their night actions, then we have no way of distinguishing between townies being truthful and lying scum. Catching a scum who faked his claim or night actions is still the most surefire way to lynch mafia.

[chapcrap]

jak, here's why your reason is BS:

Because you claim to have ordered the doc on Day 1 in order to WIFOM the mafia so you could get an extra protection. Why can't you out who you saved on night 1 in order to do the same thing with them? You can't have it both ways.

Rodion, I didn't say I had a problem with your play style. I said it was scummy. Why would I take anything up with the game mod about that?

Rodion, what is the point of commenting on old cases if you aren't bringing anything new to the issues? You simply recap issues and haven't been saying anything relevant, just following along the lines with the majority and giving medium length recaps of what has already happened. I would love to see a post where you actually bring something to the table in this game. And I won't give a pass for acting like this, just because you said that's how you were going to play it. That doesn't make any difference. By the time you said that, you already had your role PM. You didn't say that before the game started, so you get no free pass for playing like a scum person.

I said that on the 2nd day of March. Ghostly sent role PMs on the 18th day of April, 47 days after my disclaimer. Skimming noted.

I didn't realize you had said it on March 2. Go ahead and accuse me of skimming before the game even started if you want, I don't care. I still don't think you've added anything to the game.

I can honestly say I'm irritated by people resurrecting cases from 50 gazillion pages ago. It's exactly what happened with lynching jg which just frankly wasted 2 weeks of my life for no reason here, and now again you want to go back to a case that was discussed to death more than a month ago and you didn't have anything to offer at that time? Honestly it's just too scummy for me if people like you are just looking to lynch people a millenium after the scum-tells you're apparently basing your decisions on.

I couldn't agree more with this. Why rehash old cases? We know what's there already.

[jak111]

On an unrelated note, also interesting to see the 180º from Jak. D1 he was "let me just get the most of this day since I'm 100% sure I'll be NKed"; now he is "I'll tell you about that come D3 or D4". Still the doctor, still beyond suspicion, but interesting nonetheless.

Well I seem to have luck on my shoulder, so I'm going with either the town got mafia scared to attack me, or a townie is helping me out. So might as well get some of my confidence back, + I'm always a lot better passed the D1 phase. I still haven't figured out much to do in it.

Although nice WIFOM SG7, I think you managed to get the mafia AND town confused now

PMC, I'm not outting the information for now because I see no benefits for town of it, but I DO see benefits for mafia if I decide to protect the same person. But you know, Chap, Saf, Doom, and Ragian are trying to persuade information where it wouldn't be useful unless they were scum.

Safari, is that really what you believe? Outing every bit of information D2? Like I said, if a watcher OR a tracker were anywhere near me or seen me, obviously I didn't go to anyone that died. Otherwise they would've spoken up and killed another mafia, since they did not information given out are useless. Only the mafia would find use to it.

Fasposted by Chap, I can't do that again for it will not work again, PMC is still breathing and so is the target I saved. I don't wish to push my luck again or try for a triple, because even I know where my luck dies. With Mafia taking guesses in the bush they will have a hard time tonight deciding who to hit, for they do not know my target, so for all they know I can target the same person or decide.. to have some fun and go for a different one to save

Although I love how Chap is deciding to side with Leehar on that. Do you not agree cases can be brought up if new evidence is there? I mean look at JG yesterday, you and the ones whom voted him brought it back up with NO new evidence, just things that were discussed 30-40 pages before. It's odd how you're against the same thing you were doing if it doesn't fit your agenda Chap.

[jgordon1111]

ooohhh

[shieldgenerator7]

ooohhh

guys, why'd you have to go and lynch jgordon! he could have had so much to contribute!

(me, why'd you have to go and be inactive! you could have stopped his lynch! )

Also, UNVOTE jak outed it, so not much point in trying to keep the pressure off of him to claim night actions.

-SG7 ( )

[Rodion]

I didn't realize you had said it on March 2. Go ahead and accuse me of skimming before the game even started if you want, I don't care. I still don't think you've added anything to the game.

No, I'd rather accuse you of skimming after the game started.

viewtopic.php?p=3703234#p3703234

3. Chap: I'm trying to change my playing style. I've found that when I'm highly active I'll either get lynched by stupid town players who don't understand me or killed by mafia in the first nights. Either way, I'm not alive during the clutch moments of the game (D4 onwards). This is not a decision I made after receiving my role PM, as can be seen here:
viewtopic.php?p=3626101#p3626101

Shield, how did you go from voting Yoshi and wanting a claim from him ( viewtopic.php?p=3733472#p3733472 ) to unvoting (your latest post)?

[shieldgenerator7]

Originally I thought he was scummy for being all up on the doc and stuff, but now I'm thinking I voted him to get some pressure off of jak. Now, jak has said the info they wanted, so there was no more pressure on him and thus no more need to help keep the pressure off. That's what was up.

Anyway, besides the two things I mentioned, I didn't really have any other evidence on doom. no night action stuff or anything. So I'll have to gather more info before I continue to pressure him, and besides that someone else said there are scummier people to find and I'm thinking I agree. Tho I ca't say who yet because I need more info (need more rereads) in order to accuse anyone.

However, I will say it is suspicious how blindly (or so it seemed) S7C and everywhere kind of tag voted me. S7C I'll exuse because he gave an explanation and was trying to help me pressure someone to get answers, but everywhere just kinda went "uh huh, sure" and threw his vote out, even after yoshi's defence, which he subtly deflected with "there is no way I can reconcile this post with formal logic" without giving any reasons. That was kind of scummy.

But like I said, will have to reread a little more before I decide anything right now.

-SG7 ( )

[shieldgenerator7]

EBWOP

And I still want you to answer my questions Doom