[Official] Wheel of Time:EotW [8/14] D4:Twisted Pattern

[StorrZerg]

The only thing you've contributed, mtam, is that you think dd is playing differently from normal. That's not helpful in determining alignment. No, that is filler.

I think this is a very false statement... I'll give you a FOS for it.

OK maybe you just haven't been paying attention, but basically no one is doubting my town affiliation at this point in the game. For you to come in here and do so because of a single post, after all of the content I've generated so far, is much more FOS-worthy than me pointing out that Storr and Mars are the only ones getting multiple votes right now.

A players change in play is not helpful in determining someones allignment?

No. Sometimes being inactive means someone has, I don't know, real life things to do. If we were going to lynch people because their inactivity compared to normal necessarily demonstrated scumminess, you would be up there on the chopping block yourself, and let's not forget about all the other people who aren't contributing at their normal level. So why the focus on dd specifically?

Sometimes you all get so involved in playing meta that you forget to actually play the game.

Yeha my bad for steam rolling the only case that was attempting to be built on you, that was clearly trying to take advantage of our fight that was happening.

[StorrZerg]

@hotshot why are you not voting

[Metsfanmax]

So the hard facts this game we have, are A MAFIA WAS LYNCHED.

No, a guy with a red name whose character has an evil flavor was lynched.

Even if there is only one mafia coalition, that doesn't make you town. Padan Fain could pretty easily make sense in a third party.

Storr: surely if you were town, you would be willing to name claim so that we can set this matter to bed and examine someone else? It wouldn't divulge anything else about the nature of your actual role, and would allow us to focus our efforts better.

[Iron Butterfly]

IB - Is Storr and myself staying largely quiet actually helping? Hotshot, DD, GT and slightly Tal arent offering anything more as a result.

Actually it has. Mtam came out of his shell to post his usual one sentence opinions that everyone should agree with and understand without explanation.

Wing I was not speaking of you. I just got tired of Storr dominating the conversation, which usually revolved around his agenda.

I think the problem with Storr was hit on by Mitch. It is a matter of trust. He has already been caught in several lies.

I also have an opinion. It is based on some fact but yes is speculation in part given what I know. I keep coming back to WHY was I asked to go to the Dark Side (Recruit attempt). I was given a choice. If there is cult they may out and out recruit VTs. I am not a VT. Once recruited to cult they can go to Storr during the day, give him his vote and they now have a night ability.

His role really screams third party....yeh he lynched Town...so what.

[StorrZerg]

No offense ib, I'd never hit you first. It be mtamburini always

[Iron Butterfly]

No offense ib, I'd never hit you first. It be mtamburini always

I am not sure If understand the context of your sentence. Are you saying you would recruit Mtam first IF you were the recruiter?I do not believe you are the recruiter btw. Or are you sating Mtam is the enforcer,for lack of a better word, and he would he would hit me first?

I think it is the latter. Be that as it may if you are third party your role would be beneficial not just to Town but to everyone concerned. A vig shot, commuter, jailer blocker, role cop. I know I argued differently yesterday but that was before you were caught making several misstatements. You sir are an OPEN buffet. You let them know what is offered. You have NO CONTROL over who excepts. There is small comfort in that you say you will help Town by acting Town and you will hold them accountable. This is Mafia saying so don't make it so.

The fact you wont claim after revealing your role mechanics gives cause great concern and mistrust as well. If everything is on the table why not claim?

[mtamburini]

So the hard facts this game we have, are A MAFIA WAS LYNCHED.

No, a guy with a red name whose character has an evil flavor was lynched.

Even if there is only one mafia coalition, that doesn't make you town. Padan Fain could pretty easily make sense in a third party.

Storr: surely if you were town, you would be willing to name claim so that we can set this matter to bed and examine someone else? It wouldn't divulge anything else about the nature of your actual role, and would allow us to focus our efforts better.

Hes ron weasly or dumbledore, DOES THAT HELP YOU?!?!? DOES HIS NAME MAKE YOUR READ CHANGE?!?!?

This guy is scum hasnt learned from the HP game that name claims are worthless

[Iron Butterfly]

So the hard facts this game we have, are A MAFIA WAS LYNCHED.

No, a guy with a red name whose character has an evil flavor was lynched.

Even if there is only one mafia coalition, that doesn't make you town. Padan Fain could pretty easily make sense in a third party.

Storr: surely if you were town, you would be willing to name claim so that we can set this matter to bed and examine someone else? It wouldn't divulge anything else about the nature of your actual role, and would allow us to focus our efforts better.

Hes ron weasly or dumbledore, DOES THAT HELP YOU?!?!? DOES HIS NAME MAKE YOUR READ CHANGE?!?!?

This guy is scum hasnt learned from the HP game that name claims are worthless

Names mean everything this game. This is a different game run by a different mod. It is also standard practice not to discuss games till they are archived.

[mtamburini]

So the hard facts this game we have, are A MAFIA WAS LYNCHED.

No, a guy with a red name whose character has an evil flavor was lynched.

Even if there is only one mafia coalition, that doesn't make you town. Padan Fain could pretty easily make sense in a third party.

Storr: surely if you were town, you would be willing to name claim so that we can set this matter to bed and examine someone else? It wouldn't divulge anything else about the nature of your actual role, and would allow us to focus our efforts better.

Hes ron weasly or dumbledore, DOES THAT HELP YOU?!?!? DOES HIS NAME MAKE YOUR READ CHANGE?!?!?

This guy is scum hasnt learned from the HP game that name claims are worthless

Names mean everything this game. This is a different game run by a different mod. It is also standard practice not to discuss games till they are archived.

Oh please the mod has said the game is over they are doing mvp voting

[StorrZerg]

Ib if names mean everything why are we not mass claiming names... and even roles. Let's just end the game then.

[Iron Butterfly]

Ib if names mean everything why are we not mass claiming names... and even roles. Let's just end the game then.

First as you may have noticed players do not flip with their roles. What would Streaker have claimed?? Something tells me it is not that simple. We witnessed Endgame flip without a role so all we can do is surmise. There seems to be a hierarchy of important, semi important to trivial names. I do not play the game simply to end the game.I play for fun and to win. Thats the thing that annoys me about you as that you seem to want to strip away all elements to its simplest, mass claim day one and let dog eat dog.

A mass claim would only help those who are anti Town.

[HotShot53]

@hotshot why are you not voting

Because I didn't want to vote for either you or marashu, and I haven't gone through everyone yet to see who does deserve my vote. I'll go through what I can now, might have to split this in a couple parts if I don't get through everyone before my lunch break is over.

1.virus90 - Started a case on talapus day 1, gave some reads on other players, was actually more active than his usual day 1. Wasn't online during the streaker lynch (and didn't post anywhere else for those couple days, so I can believe he really was away). Day 2, continued to pressure talapus, and gave more reads on everyone. Unless he has completely changed his gameplay from his scummarizing scum self, he seems town to me so far.

2.Streaker Myrddrall Our lynch day 1

3.WingcommanderGinkapo - a lot of posts, as usual. Day 1 didn't like DD's lack of posting, then voted talapus after virus made the case. Wasn't sure of streaker being scum at first, and was more suspicious of the bandwagon until streaker claimed, when he said it was a fake claim and voted him. Visited storr day 2 and got whatever storr is handing out today. After the fake claim statement that caused streaker to get lynched, obviously have to lean town for him.

4.mtamburini - jumped on wing for a perceived scum slip, when it was really just mtam hadn't seen the other thread. Votes end instead of streaker (without really giving a reason), and doesn't post again after steaker's claim and wing's calling it out. Has not done his day action either day. Votes DD for his lack of effort/scummarizing, and has sounded a bit better day 2. I'm neutral on him for now.

5.madmitch - seems pretty confused mostly... which just confuses the situation. I just finished a game as scum with him, and still have no way of reading him because he's mostly out in left field. His responses relating to the trade with storr and the action etc would make me lean very slightly town.

6.PottersEdgeStorrZerg - can give you an action in exchange for your vote if you visit him. Has seemed towny in his play (as town he often lies and tries to set traps, as he has here). Would like to hear his name claim to remove the case against him. Helped get streaker lynched, if he had opposed it streaker wouldn't have been lynched (especially since he could control 3 of the votes) Could be third party or town, only could be scum if he's playing a crazy game. I'll assume town or friendly 3rd party for now.

7.Hotshot53 - Me, town of course.

8.Marashu
9.GotTonkaed
10.Endgame422 Elyas Machera
11.dd515087
12.Metsfanmax
13.Iron Butterfly
14.Talapus

Will have to finish my analysis later, but in reading what I have so far, I'm leaning towards mets or dd for my vote...

[Marashu]

Ib if names mean everything why are we not mass claiming names... and even roles. Let's just end the game then.

First as you may have noticed players do not flip with their roles. What would Streaker have claimed?? Something tells me it is not that simple. We witnessed Endgame flip without a role so all we can do is surmise. There seems to be a hierarchy of important, semi important to trivial names. I do not play the game simply to end the game.I play for fun and to win. Thats the thing that annoys me about you as that you seem to want to strip away all elements to its simplest, mass claim day one and let dog eat dog.

A mass claim would only help those who are anti Town.

I 100% agree with this. At this moment, I'm not even entirely sure that players are given roles like that - I was only given info on day ability, knowledge that I have no night ability, and win condition, as well as character info (which included relations to a few other characters, but it was stuff I already knew and stuff that a little research would show). The mod said it wouldn't be a typical non-vanilla game, so it stands to reason that actions would also be non-vanilla (by which I mean, more tailored to the flavour of the game).

If I'm still alive D3, people who would have some sort of relation with my character (like, if my character is mentioned in your character blurb) can test the day action = character relations theory.

Hes ron weasly or dumbledore, DOES THAT HELP YOU?!?!? DOES HIS NAME MAKE YOUR READ CHANGE?!?!?

This guy is scum hasnt learned from the HP game that name claims are worthless

In this case, I think the name might make my read change. The difference here is that we have a decent (but not complete) understanding of his day ability. A name claim would give information. A strong fakeclaim might not make much sense with what we know about the ability. Light, there is a weak claim I thought of at work that I would be inclined to believe. Yes, he could lie about it, but it would give the town information, and if he's honest AND town, it would probably clear up a lot of suspicion around him and let us move on to tracking down scum.

yet we get this comment, which seems odd that a vt would get special interactions unless he is withholding information. Maybe not odd, just it doesn't appear that he has fully claimed.

This is a Non-Vanilla game, so I am figuring that I would get special interactions that would get me some kind of night ability. So far it has not happened. The only information I am "withholding" are details about my win condition - and I have PM'd the mod asking how much of that I am allowed to disclose. If I get the green light, is this something I should be including in the claim as well? (I'm looking for a bit more of a consensus than just Storr on this one)

fp'd by HotShot.

[StorrZerg]

So then stop pushing me for my name if it's trivial.

Start pushing someone that could actually be scum, rather than a town that's being proactive about trying to trap scum.
I have fun in this game by scum hunting. Trying to trap people is fun, lying to trap is a part of my game play, yet I come clean about it as town.

You'll notice I didn't come clean as sk, I did try to lie my way out.

And while you maybe paranoid But me becoming 3p because of some fantasy cult that only you know of, in not apart of it, and I would say no anyways lol. If you want that person dead, you know it's not me, you know I'm not mafia, so stop tunneling.

[StorrZerg]

So the hard facts this game we have, are A MAFIA WAS LYNCHED.

No, a guy with a red name whose character has an evil flavor was lynched.

Even if there is only one mafia coalition, that doesn't make you town. Padan Fain could pretty easily make sense in a third party.

Storr: surely if you were town, you would be willing to name claim so that we can set this matter to bed and examine someone else? It wouldn't divulge anything else about the nature of your actual role, and would allow us to focus our efforts better.

Mets surely you can't be suggesting we are playing a game that is called "not mafia "
Streaker was mafia. Red name mafia. Till other wise noted, thinking other wise is crazy talk.

I'm not padan fain, and I don't believe my character name is that strongly linked with my power. Keeping it to myself, for selfish reasons, if I felt I was in serious danger to be lynched, I might claim. Additionally you can't know if I give my name that it can't give more information. I'm inclined to think other wise.

It's not hard to just focus some place else. You eventually did it day 1. Where was your Talapus push today? It's entirely possible to push more than 1 person. Keep me sketchy idgaf. But when half my town circle is voting me instead of helping me find scum, that causes me to waste time defending myself on my play.

Has a single person who is pushing me attacked ANY FUCKING READ I'VE MADE.
(Mtamb is that it? And that's because he went inactive, he still town fromy earlier read)

[StorrZerg]

Can we get a vc plz

[madmitch]

hey guys take it easy on Storr ,there is no concrete evidence that he is scum, and he is a lot of fun in these games , he keeps every one on their toes

[StorrZerg]

If we done lynch mafia today, you can hang me tomorrow.

How about that mets?

[Metsfanmax]

Hes ron weasly or dumbledore, DOES THAT HELP YOU?!?!? DOES HIS NAME MAKE YOUR READ CHANGE?!?!?

Of course it does not make my read change, if by "read" you mean the sense I get from the tone and content of his posts -- but it surely affects the likelihood that he is or is not town. If my choice is between utilizing information directly relevant to the game (especially for this mod) and trusting someone's evidence-less theory about whether a certain player's activity level indicates their alignment, I'll go for the former every time. If mtam actually had a case on dd he would be pushing it; but he doesn't, which is why he's falling back on this "trust me guys, I know how he usually plays and this is not it, therefore he is scum."

This guy is scum hasnt learned from the HP game that name claims are worthless

You need to pick a hypothesis: either 1) I'm scum, or 2) I'm too dumb to understand the relevance of name claims. You can't use both at the same time to explain my comment.

If we done lynch mafia today, you can hang me tomorrow.

Decline. If you're town, the chance that you'll get a scum hit today is already pretty low just on statistical reasoning. I have no reason to penalize you just for that.

[Iron Butterfly]

So then stop pushing me for my name if it's trivial.

Start pushing someone that could actually be scum, rather than a town that's being proactive about trying to trap scum.
I have fun in this game by scum hunting. Trying to trap people is fun, lying to trap is a part of my game play, yet I come clean about it as town.

You'll notice I didn't come clean as sk, I did try to lie my way out.

And while you maybe paranoid But me becoming 3p because of some fantasy cult that only you know of, in not apart of it, and I would say no anyways lol. If you want that person dead, you know it's not me, you know I'm not mafia, so stop tunneling.

When you lie to set up a trap you not only lie to scum but to Town as well, which causes any number of problems. You would think you would have learned that by now.

Yes you tried to lie your way out of it, but you have lied already and in playing you play it for keeps until you flip. So comparing how you played SK and this role is irrelevant.

So you believe the cult I speak of is a fantasy? You must believe I am lying then. If you think I am lying then by all means vote me or make a case. Otherwise I will assume you do believe me.

[StorrZerg]

The point im making is, im not the cult, you know that, you know i couldn't of been recruited yet, so stop pushing me on something that might happen.
And yes, you very well could have lied about this, you could be the cult, idk right now and idc. Just like every other game, worrying about 3ps is below scum, because we know scum kill, we have lynched one. So lets keep lynching them.

Regarding lying about a trap, I do it all the time as town. What happened when i was medic in our Matrix game, I intentionally lied about being the medic, fishing for mafia to make a mistake, since they knew to much information, and caught one. You lied that game about not reading and not knowing about the vote count. You did it because you didnt want to counter claim, and you played greedy not wanting to claim. And it worked. Attempting to punish me for lying on purpose, when trying to catch scum isn't helping. You say i should have learned by now, yet obviously its a key part of my play and im not going to stop playing like this.

[Iron Butterfly]

The point im making is, im not the cult, you know that, you know i couldn't of been recruited yet, so stop pushing me on something that might happen.
And yes, you very well could have lied about this, you could be the cult, idk right now and idc. Just like every other game, worrying about 3ps is below scum, because we know scum kill, we have lynched one. So lets keep lynching them.

Regarding lying about a trap, I do it all the time as town. What happened when i was medic in our Matrix game, I intentionally lied about being the medic, fishing for mafia to make a mistake, since they knew to much information, and caught one. You lied that game about not reading and not knowing about the vote count. You did it because you didnt want to counter claim, and you played greedy not wanting to claim. And it worked. Attempting to punish me for lying on purpose, when trying to catch scum isn't helping. You say i should have learned by now, yet obviously its a key part of my play and im not going to stop playing like this.

There are exceptions, as Mets stated earlier. It is when there is a continual pattern that there is a problem.

You keep repeating your not cult, I keep saying your not cult. Why is that?

Your role can help Mafia, Cult as well as Town.

Your role can also give power to who lives and who dies later in the game and if two nights from now cult/darkness is alive and kicking Town may not be able to prevent it.

I am done with this conversation.

[Metsfanmax]

The point im making is, im not the cult, you know that

Based on what evidence? We only know about your day action.

And yes, you very well could have lied about this

He is not lying. I am certain. That doesn't mean that you are cult, but there is absolutely some sort of recruitment mechanism.

[StorrZerg]

some shitty recruitment that anyone can decline sounds pretty terrible

why dont we just lynch mafia and stop pretending that ill allow myself to be recruited latter in the game. lol?

your just stalling the game out ib/mets by doing nothing, Your not accomplishing anything with this push, instead your waving attention away from marash who is scum, as well as letting people who are inactive stay under the radar. No one fears being lynched today because you 2 are railroading town into doing nothing over what? i baited someone? get real

[Metsfanmax]

some shitty recruitment that anyone can decline sounds pretty terrible

Unless you're the recruiter.

your just stalling the game out ib/mets by doing nothing, Your not accomplishing anything with this push, instead your waving attention away from marash who is scum, as well as letting people who are inactive stay under the radar. No one fears being lynched today because you 2 are railroading town into doing nothing over what? i baited someone? get real

I feel like I shouldn't need to point out that the case against Marashu started more or less with my comment that he was not talking about the possibility of you being Padan Fain despite knowing the flavor much better than us. But that case only made sense if you and he were both scum. So I'm not going to lynch him first when I could lynch you; and, the fact that you're pushing him makes me think that you two are not partners.

Also, there's 14 players and IB and myself are only two of them. If the game is stalling, it is not our fault.