MLP: Friendship is MAFIA! ENDGAME: DISCORD & PINKIE WIN!

[pmchugh]

And we have our bites! I was testing for reactions and I think I got a good one, nag was clearly just hoping on the latest BW and unlike the joke BWs before, this one had the chance to become legit as what I said was scummy.

I had nothing to go on so I deliberately posted something out of character and slightly scummy in the hopes of starting a mini BW. The main point here is that it is out of character and people who know me well, such as nag, will know that I would never seriously adovcate a random lynching.

unvote vote nag

Wait, how is it baiting scum if you were admittedly acting scummy?
I wouldn't necessarily vote against someone for advocating a lynch when there is no evidence, but this seems too meta and a strange action, if not a strange excuse.
"I am acting scummy, but you guys should know I never act scummy and therefore it's scummy to call me on it!"
FOS PMC

I'm not the first person in the world to use this play. You act slightly out and wait for reactions, does anyone here really think I wanted MeDeFe to get random lynched? I have been in rather enough games to know that it wont work and it will cast suspicion on me. Anyone using their brain will see I'm not serious, anyone looking for an easy BW will vote for me.

The point is, I wouldn't act that way genuinely and you all know it.

Learn 2 mafia.

You're at lynch -4, not in any danger.

The question is 'why so serious?!'

I wanted to wait longer but I was getting impatient, still third vote in three posts is a BW.

[pmchugh]

EBWOP, found you a nice little link to prove I didn't make this up. In fact I can even link you the game the idea was introduced to me on if you wish.

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Slayer's_Gambit

It even has a name.

[MeDeFe]

pmc, you don't think the scum would also consider that and feel free to use it if it's a legitimate town tactic to call for a random lynch again? Either the bandwagon works and a townie dies or has to claim, or another townie who picked up on a scumtell is suddenly scummy because they picked up on a scumtell and a "case" can be brought against them. It's too much of a win-win situation for the scum if you start considering joke BWs a legitimate tactic.

[pmchugh]

pmc, you don't think the scum would also consider that and feel free to use it if it's a legitimate town tactic to call for a random lynch again? Either the bandwagon works and a townie dies or has to claim, or another townie who picked up on a scumtell is suddenly scummy because they picked up on a scumtell and a "case" can be brought against them. It's too much of a win-win situation for the scum if you start considering joke BWs a legitimate tactic.

For a start any tactic can be used by mafia that much is obvious. However I would seriously down grade the benefits to mafia for using this tactic from what you estimated them at.

The first part of the win-win you proposed was that a townie would get lynched and/or have to claim. This is extremely unlikely in a game full of relatively experienced players as no one but the noobiest of noobs would want a claim for em... nothing. Even if you succeeded in a random lynch then you would come under a significant amount of pressure due to having suggested it in the first place, chances are you would get copped in the night and lynched the next day.

Secondly you state that a real townie picking up on a scumtell would have a case brought against them. Well the point here is that the scumtell is obviously not a serious one, just as a joke "Quicklynch GOGOGOGO" is not a serious tell. This means any player thinking this is a genuine tell either has to be inexperienced, confused or is mafia picking up on an easy BW.

I think something can be taken from nags joking around in response to me too, an essential part of this tell is that nag took the wagon seriously and recognising this his next two posts were a bit OTT in attempting to down play the seriousness of his play/vote.

OMGUS
OMGUS
OMGUS
OMGUS
OMGUS

You're at lynch -4, not in any danger.

The question is 'why so serious?!'

[MeDeFe]

So... basically you suggested a random lynch for no good reason at all.

[nagerous]

pmc, you don't think the scum would also consider that and feel free to use it if it's a legitimate town tactic to call for a random lynch again? Either the bandwagon works and a townie dies or has to claim, or another townie who picked up on a scumtell is suddenly scummy because they picked up on a scumtell and a "case" can be brought against them. It's too much of a win-win situation for the scum if you start considering joke BWs a legitimate tactic.

For a start any tactic can be used by mafia that much is obvious. However I would seriously down grade the benefits to mafia for using this tactic from what you estimated them at.

The first part of the win-win you proposed was that a townie would get lynched and/or have to claim. This is extremely unlikely in a game full of relatively experienced players as no one but the noobiest of noobs would want a claim for em... nothing. Even if you succeeded in a random lynch then you would come under a significant amount of pressure due to having suggested it in the first place, chances are you would get copped in the night and lynched the next day.

Secondly you state that a real townie picking up on a scumtell would have a case brought against them. Well the point here is that the scumtell is obviously not a serious one, just as a joke "Quicklynch GOGOGOGO" is not a serious tell. This means any player thinking this is a genuine tell either has to be inexperienced, confused or is mafia picking up on an easy BW.

I think something can be taken from nags joking around in response to me too, an essential part of this tell is that nag took the wagon seriously and recognising this his next two posts were a bit OTT in attempting to down play the seriousness of his play/vote.

OMGUS
OMGUS
OMGUS
OMGUS
OMGUS

You're at lynch -4, not in any danger.

The question is 'why so serious?!'

You're so annoying, you clearly don't know me at all - or you're just failing at playing lyncher again.. Do you think that poorly of me that I would just bandwagon you as a scum member with a serious vote on day one. Apply some fucking brain.

[pmchugh]

So... basically you suggested a random lynch for no good reason at all.

I downplayed the reasons for mafia to do it.. not town.

pmc, you don't think the scum would also consider that and feel free to use it if it's a legitimate town tactic to call for a random lynch again? Either the bandwagon works and a townie dies or has to claim, or another townie who picked up on a scumtell is suddenly scummy because they picked up on a scumtell and a "case" can be brought against them. It's too much of a win-win situation for the scum if you start considering joke BWs a legitimate tactic.

For a start any tactic can be used by mafia that much is obvious. However I would seriously down grade the benefits to mafia for using this tactic from what you estimated them at.

The first part of the win-win you proposed was that a townie would get lynched and/or have to claim. This is extremely unlikely in a game full of relatively experienced players as no one but the noobiest of noobs would want a claim for em... nothing. Even if you succeeded in a random lynch then you would come under a significant amount of pressure due to having suggested it in the first place, chances are you would get copped in the night and lynched the next day.

Secondly you state that a real townie picking up on a scumtell would have a case brought against them. Well the point here is that the scumtell is obviously not a serious one, just as a joke "Quicklynch GOGOGOGO" is not a serious tell. This means any player thinking this is a genuine tell either has to be inexperienced, confused or is mafia picking up on an easy BW.

I think something can be taken from nags joking around in response to me too, an essential part of this tell is that nag took the wagon seriously and recognising this his next two posts were a bit OTT in attempting to down play the seriousness of his play/vote.

OMGUS
OMGUS
OMGUS
OMGUS
OMGUS

You're at lynch -4, not in any danger.

The question is 'why so serious?!'

You're so annoying, you clearly don't know me at all - or you're just failing at playing lyncher again.. Do you think that poorly of me that I would just bandwagon you as a scum member with a serious vote on day one. Apply some fucking brain.

Haha you clearly don't know me at all either. I'm always annoying in mafia games

I think this response seems genuine enough. unvote

[MeDeFe]

So... basically you suggested a random lynch for no good reason at all.

I downplayed the reasons for mafia to do it.. not town.

By explaining how it won't work for the scum you also explained how it won't work for town.

[pmchugh]

So... basically you suggested a random lynch for no good reason at all.

I downplayed the reasons for mafia to do it.. not town.

By explaining how it won't work for the scum you also explained how it won't work for town.

Secondly you state that a real townie picking up on a scumtell would have a case brought against them. Well the point here is that the scumtell is obviously not a serious one, just as a joke "Quicklynch GOGOGOGO" is not a serious tell. This means any player thinking this is a genuine tell either has to be inexperienced, confused or is mafia picking up on an easy BW.

The idea is to catch people on a BW. How many times to people state one person on every BW is maf or use BW's as sources of information? The only difference here is, I was trying to start a BW on myself.

[MeDeFe]

So... basically you suggested a random lynch for no good reason at all.

I downplayed the reasons for mafia to do it.. not town.

By explaining how it won't work for the scum you also explained how it won't work for town.

Secondly you state that a real townie picking up on a scumtell would have a case brought against them. Well the point here is that the scumtell is obviously not a serious one, just as a joke "Quicklynch GOGOGOGO" is not a serious tell. This means any player thinking this is a genuine tell either has to be inexperienced, confused or is mafia picking up on an easy BW or plays it by the book.

The idea is to catch people on a BW. How many times to people state one person on every BW is maf or use BW's as sources of information? The only difference here is, I was trying to start a BW on myself.

The fact remains that your supposed "gambit" is an attempt to punish people for good, though basic, playing.

[pmchugh]

So... basically you suggested a random lynch for no good reason at all.

I downplayed the reasons for mafia to do it.. not town.

By explaining how it won't work for the scum you also explained how it won't work for town.

Secondly you state that a real townie picking up on a scumtell would have a case brought against them. Well the point here is that the scumtell is obviously not a serious one, just as a joke "Quicklynch GOGOGOGO" is not a serious tell. This means any player thinking this is a genuine tell either has to be inexperienced, confused or is mafia picking up on an easy BW or plays it by the book.

The idea is to catch people on a BW. How many times to people state one person on every BW is maf or use BW's as sources of information? The only difference here is, I was trying to start a BW on myself.

The fact remains that your supposed "gambit" is an attempt to punish people for good, though basic, playing.

You call joining a crappy wagon "good" play?

[sheepofdumb]

The fact remains that your supposed "gambit" is an attempt to punish people for good, though basic, playing.

You call joining a crappy wagon "good" play?

In this case the play and the bandwagons are crappy, being day one. Its punishing good play because, in a better trap, the town are going to call scum as they sees 'em and the scum aren't going to mindlessly bandwagon in an attempt to get the fast lynch until endgame play (if at all). You're digging a whole for yourself and waiting for someone to come by with a shovel to come and bury you alive. The problem is that both scum and town both have shovels and both doing their jobs. So what's the criteria for accusing someone of being scum in that situation? The one who acts the most scummy, right? Well the only one acting scummy already in the hole. Everyone else is doing their job.

Your turning the vote into a trap. Which weakens the towns power to lynch. It's more likely to ensnare a townie because that's how the town catches mafia. Scum don't have to bag a kill every day and night. Once the investigation roles are out of the way the scum have the rest of the game to slowly pick apart the town. Delaying the vote can actually play into the favor of scum.

[MeDeFe]

^that sums it up pretty well. No, I don't call joining a crappy wagon good play, I call pressuring the people who do something scummy good play. Sure, in this case it was something very basic (and I'm repeating myself), but that doesn't change that you, pmc, did something that was bound to draw criticism and likely votes as well. Whether you're town or scum your scheme depends on other players behaving noobishly, and that makes it weak.

[pmchugh]

The fact remains that your supposed "gambit" is an attempt to punish people for good, though basic, playing.

You call joining a crappy wagon "good" play?

In this case the play and the bandwagons are crappy, being day one. Its punishing good play because, in a better trap, the town are going to call scum as they sees 'em and the scum aren't going to mindlessly bandwagon in an attempt to get the fast lynch until endgame play (if at all). You're digging a whole for yourself and waiting for someone to come by with a shovel to come and bury you alive. The problem is that both scum and town both have shovels and both doing their jobs. So what's the criteria for accusing someone of being scum in that situation? The one who acts the most scummy, right? Well the only one acting scummy already in the hole. Everyone else is doing their job.

Your turning the vote into a trap. Which weakens the towns power to lynch. It's more likely to ensnare a townie because that's how the town catches mafia. Scum don't have to bag a kill every day and night. Once the investigation roles are out of the way the scum have the rest of the game to slowly pick apart the town. Delaying the vote can actually play into the favor of scum.

OK first off this is a tactic to be used only on day 1, when you have f*ck all else to go on. The "In a better trap" bit shows how your idea of a trap is warped. The goal is not to act as scummy as possible, it is to act in a way that raises easy votes but not the votes of thinking people. I think you can see my post is aimed towards that.

As for your second paragraph you could say the same thing about accusing someone who bandwagons. Town need to bandwagon to win, they actually need to yet this is often used as a mafia tell. What is the difference?

Whether you're town or scum your scheme depends on other players behaving noobishly, and that makes it weak.

This is the only bit that made me think. You are probably right, but to be honest all traditional tells rely on people behaving noobishly. Bandwagonning everyone, lying, lurking and being overly agreeable with your maf partner are all noob moves.

[pmchugh]

This game has barely started and already TFO has been missing 5 days. unvote vote TFO

[TheForgivenOne]

This game has barely started and already TFO has been missing 5 days. unvote vote TFO

Yes yes, sorry. I've been down with Tonsillitis the last week and a half. I just got a stronger dose, and should be back in a few days.

[nagerous]

This game has barely started and already TFO has been missing 5 days. unvote vote TFO

Yes yes, sorry. I've been down with Tonsillitis the last week and a half. I just got a stronger dose, and should be back in a few days.

Thats odd that you responded 8 minutes after being called out... shows you are reading the thread but just not contributing... definitely earns a FOS

[TheForgivenOne]

This game has barely started and already TFO has been missing 5 days. unvote vote TFO

Yes yes, sorry. I've been down with Tonsillitis the last week and a half. I just got a stronger dose, and should be back in a few days.

Thats odd that you responded 8 minutes after being called out... shows you are reading the thread but just not contributing... definitely earns a FOS

That's because I just happened to look at the thread. You can even look at my recent posts, as i've barely been posting anywhere else. I returned home an hour ago from the doctors, took my medication, then started catching up in Suggestions.

[nagerous]

This game has barely started and already TFO has been missing 5 days. unvote vote TFO

Yes yes, sorry. I've been down with Tonsillitis the last week and a half. I just got a stronger dose, and should be back in a few days.

Thats odd that you responded 8 minutes after being called out... shows you are reading the thread but just not contributing... definitely earns a FOS

That's because I just happened to look at the thread. You can even look at my recent posts, as i've barely been posting anywhere else. I returned home an hour ago from the doctors, took my medication, then started catching up in Suggestions.

You can pull the other one, I know you've been in live chat for loads over the past few days.

[zimmah]

could be coincidence

[TheForgivenOne]

This game has barely started and already TFO has been missing 5 days. unvote vote TFO

Yes yes, sorry. I've been down with Tonsillitis the last week and a half. I just got a stronger dose, and should be back in a few days.

Thats odd that you responded 8 minutes after being called out... shows you are reading the thread but just not contributing... definitely earns a FOS

That's because I just happened to look at the thread. You can even look at my recent posts, as i've barely been posting anywhere else. I returned home an hour ago from the doctors, took my medication, then started catching up in Suggestions.

You can pull the other one, I know you've been in live chat for loads over the past few days.

I won't deny that, but i'm not exactly consistently in there, posting a lot. Kind of like Bruce. But I don't exactly know what to say about what pmchugh did, this really is only my 3rd or fourth game on the forums. I guess I should post more, you know, to learn better... and I can't exactly say i'm not the only one barely posting, because i'd look scummy trying to divert attention. (Yes, I play epicmafia, however, I play on sandbox, where 95% of the games are trolls where everyone relies 100% on power roles).

[pmchugh]

I won't deny that, but i'm not exactly consistently in there, posting a lot. Kind of like Bruce. But I don't exactly know what to say about what pmchugh did, this really is only my 3rd or fourth game on the forums. I guess I should post more, you know, to learn better... and I can't exactly say i'm not the only one barely posting, because i'd look scummy trying to divert attention. (Yes, I play epicmafia, however, I play on sandbox, where 95% of the games are trolls where everyone relies 100% on power roles).

Epic mafia is completely different ball game from this esp sandbox lol, but forum mafia is much more fun cause I can analyse things 12 million times Also IMO the more you post the more you learn even for long term players.

Anyway I would still be interested to hear if you have even a slight fos on anyone at this point?

You are quite right about the other players hiding. I am would like to hear from /, he gave me an FOS and then ducked out of the conversation. Some people may disagree with my tactics but I don't see why anyone would believe I am mafia.

Also I don't believe haggis has contributed anything so far, so it would be nice if he could chime in with an FOS or at least a talking point to get us going.

[/]

I won't deny that, but i'm not exactly consistently in there, posting a lot. Kind of like Bruce. But I don't exactly know what to say about what pmchugh did, this really is only my 3rd or fourth game on the forums. I guess I should post more, you know, to learn better... and I can't exactly say i'm not the only one barely posting, because i'd look scummy trying to divert attention. (Yes, I play epicmafia, however, I play on sandbox, where 95% of the games are trolls where everyone relies 100% on power roles).

Epic mafia is completely different ball game from this esp sandbox lol, but forum mafia is much more fun cause I can analyse things 12 million times Also IMO the more you post the more you learn even for long term players.

Anyway I would still be interested to hear if you have even a slight fos on anyone at this point?

You are quite right about the other players hiding. I am would like to hear from /, he gave me an FOS and then ducked out of the conversation. Some people may disagree with my tactics but I don't see why anyone would believe I am mafia.

Also I don't believe haggis has contributed anything so far, so it would be nice if he could chime in with an FOS or at least a talking point to get us going.

Fine, you am will hear from me then.
hmmm, I'm not sure, I take strategy from mafiascum with a grain of salt personally, here on CC we try not to make our days last for months on end, so voting the first scummy thing to come around is not a bad thing, I don't really get into metagaming too much if it's not completely obvious, so I personally wouldn't go a route like you claim to have chosen. Also I believe players change, and sometimes get frustrated with a deadlock and just try to get something done, so suggesting a random lynch isn't some out of the field "lynch me mafia, I am a noob" tactic like you claim, I simply found it suspect because you seemed to try to play it off as some kind of super obvious sarcastic bait.

Now I also notice you dropped said catch almost immediately, implying it wasn't such a thought out foolproof move, it really does seem to me like you made a mistake and are trying to play it off with an excuse that you played off just as quickly.
Eh, I'm not sure if it's really a scum tell, but I honestly think it's at the very least a ploy to get the heat off of yourself, which does get me curious. I think I'll throw out a vote since you're totally killing to joke vote atmosphere here.

Unvote Vote PMC

[TheForgivenOne]

I won't deny that, but i'm not exactly consistently in there, posting a lot. Kind of like Bruce. But I don't exactly know what to say about what pmchugh did, this really is only my 3rd or fourth game on the forums. I guess I should post more, you know, to learn better... and I can't exactly say i'm not the only one barely posting, because i'd look scummy trying to divert attention. (Yes, I play epicmafia, however, I play on sandbox, where 95% of the games are trolls where everyone relies 100% on power roles).

Epic mafia is completely different ball game from this esp sandbox lol, but forum mafia is much more fun cause I can analyse things 12 million times Also IMO the more you post the more you learn even for long term players.

Anyway I would still be interested to hear if you have even a slight fos on anyone at this point?

You are quite right about the other players hiding. I am would like to hear from /, he gave me an FOS and then ducked out of the conversation. Some people may disagree with my tactics but I don't see why anyone would believe I am mafia.

Also I don't believe haggis has contributed anything so far, so it would be nice if he could chime in with an FOS or at least a talking point to get us going.

Well, I do think you're move was a tad weird. I read your reasonings, but I don't understand why you picked nagerous. Yes, he did join a bandwagon, but, dazza's vote was a bit of a bandwagon as well, and you didn't call him out on it.

On a side note, I am going to assume that Victor has double voting powers?

[TheForgivenOne]

EBWOP, or am I missing something?