Conquer Club

Posted: **Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:02 pm**

Awoken by some skillful and persuasive rhetoric of Dancing Mustard, I have decided to post a thread outlining why I believe this moderator permaban culture policy is not only inherently wrong, but also grossly misused and lacking in practical neccesity.

Rather than being governed by "objective standards", as DM excellently puts it, which should be used to determine the appropriate penalty to match a specific crime, on a case-by-case basis, the moderation has used a grossly unjust system in which they simply dictate a sentence which depending on the extent to which such and such a has pissed them off, they will issue a sentence which is usually issued taking into account bans, and will have a longer time sentence and ends in a permaban. Hence just for expressing some mildly politically incorect views, a member can get permabanned!

But surely each crime ought to have a sentence, objectively just, which can be applied regardless of the person in question's history. People change over time, circumstances change, and only this sort of ban ensure justice is given in righteous proportion.

Why permaban? I see no real reason why you'd want to permaban. It's not as if there's any need to exterminate a class of dissidents from CC forums....is there...?

And yet this penalty is abused regularily. Look at Norse : He was told he was pushing the line repeatedly, and when he made some remarks of minor importance in the frame of civilized debate, which some erroneously interpreted as racist, he was banned! Did he even realise he had toed the proverbial line? Probably not! But because of this deeply flawed system, he was banned for something not even intended as a pushing of any boundary.

To summarize,

The moderators ought to exist to make these forums a happier, better place. But in some cases the flawed penal system used results in terribly unfair rulings lacking in popular support!
Who actually wanted Norse banned?
Polls indicate barely 18% say he is "no good".

So I say, in the best interests of the CC community, made so much more vibrant and diverse by Norse :

Moderators : FREE NORSE! THE PEOPLE WANT IT!

It's your job as moderators, and its the community's will. Norse was an indispensable part of life here. You usually do excellent work. So please, in light of this, re-consider this decision, very carefully.

The Forum Death Penalty cannot be taken lightly...

Posted: **Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:05 pm**

moved to GD since it's not off-topic. :wink:

Posted: **Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:05 pm**

wicked wrote:moved to GD since it's not off-topic.

Fair enough.

Posted: **Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:06 pm**

I made a thread like this when Rev K was perma-banned.

Posted: **Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:08 pm**

jnd94 wrote:I made a thread like this when Rev K was perma-banned.

Good for you. Let's have some more support for the Cause.

Posted: **Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:09 pm**

free nosrse!

Posted: **Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:12 pm**

What I want to know is this:
Why is it that people who nobody (or few) like and would rather they be permanently banned from the CC forums are allowed to roam free (wrestler1ump, for example) whilst members that were loved by many are band (Norse and RK)? Is it not the job of the moderators to keep the community happy?

Posted: **Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:13 pm**

hecter wrote:What I want to know is this:
Why is it that people who nobody (or few) like and would rather they be permanently banned from the CC forums are allowed to roam free (wrestler1ump, for example) whilst members that were loved by many are band (Norse and RK)? Is it not the job of the moderators to keep the community happy?

amen brother!

Posted: **Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:17 pm**

I really wished miss wicked would have moved this to any forum bit mine.

I do not know norse. I do not know why he was banned.

Most players do not read the forums, and propably do not know norse or that he was banned.

As I said I do not like this in my forum -- But since it is here Either be more Informative or kill the topic.

Give enough 2 sided information so that the masses can make a informed VOTE.

Posted: **Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:19 pm**

derp derp interbuttz is serious business

Posted: **Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:23 pm**

I appreciate you run a tight ship here. I'll do what I can to meet your sensible request.

Norse was banned on a number of occasions.

Supposedly he repeatedly "pushed the limits".
He was recently permabanned for suggesting that europeans are the leaders in Civilizational advances due to innate superiority.

However!
In a poll in the IK forum, only 18% said they thought Norse was "no good". 60% wanted him back. Norse was a witty, amiable, intelligent man. His bannin has profoundly upset many people who now want him to return, on parole, as it were.

As I argued in he original post, he was banned on the grounds of a backward and medieval penal system.

So : Whaddowewant? NORSE!
Whendowewantit? NOW!

FREE NORSE!

Posted: **Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:23 pm**

Napoleon Ier wrote:The Forum Death Penalty cannot be taken lightly...

Posted: **Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:28 pm**

As I stated, 2 sides are needed So now if you could get someone from the other side 2 explain their issue.

or play devils advocate....and try to express the other side's correct opinoin.

Posted: **Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:30 pm**

wacicha wrote:Give enough 2 sided information so that the masses can make a informed VOTE.

The onus is on the Mods to provide satisfactory information as to WHY the current system is operating fairly.

Addressing Hecter's question would be a good start: Why do interesting and articulate flamers receive permabans while spam-happy posters are allowed to remain. The system is obviously flawed and is deserving of attention.

I ask you, "Wise Man", to provide some "2 sided information" to this discussion. We only hope it isn't "2 faced."

Of course, as you point out, you neither "know norse" nor "why he was banned." So perhaps you should quietly usher yourself out of this conversation, cease with the baseless interjections and bring in the Mod(s) responsible for the permaban.

Lastly, this is not "your forum" but, in actuality, OUR forum. If you'd like to be useful to your constituents, huddle up with your fellow Mods and determine WHO issued the permaban and WHY the permaban was issued.

We will not be put off with lame responses such as "offensive language" or "inappropriate comments" We want to see proof, in the form of actual posts, in determining whether or not WE THE CONQUER CLUB COMMUNITY (Majority) believes the Mods (Minority) acted with due cause.

Posted: **Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:31 pm**

I'll ask wicked if she wants to represent herself.

Briefly, she seemed to favor the penalty on grounds that Norse had been given ample warning and deserved the ban.

Posted: **Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:31 pm**

wacicha wrote:As I stated, 2 sides are needed So now if you could get someone from the other side 2 explain their issue.

or play devils advocate....and try to express the other side's correct opinoin.

I SEE THAT YOU DID NOT REALISE I WAS BEING SARCASTIC.

Posted: **Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:32 pm**

wacicha wrote:As I stated, 2 sides are needed So now if you could get someone from the other side 2 explain their issue.

or play devils advocate....and try to express the other side's correct opinoin.

Norse was a troll. He flamed outside of flame wars, expressed borderline racist and bigoted views and he was a downright arsehole.

But by golly, we loved him!

Posted: **Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:35 pm**

hecter wrote:
wacicha wrote:As I stated, 2 sides are needed So now if you could get someone from the other side 2 explain their issue.

or play devils advocate....and try to express the other side's correct opinoin.

Norse was a troll. He flamed outside of flame wars, expressed borderline racist and bigoted views and he was a downright arsehole.

But by golly, we loved him!

Dude, how do you have so many posts? This forum isn't even interesting; it's just copy pasted walls of text about something no one cares about and people pretending to care about it. FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACK!

Posted: **Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:36 pm**

My previous posts on the matter. I'll miss Norse too, just as I miss RK. Norse's posts were entertaining, when he wasn't being a bigot. And to those of you saying he pushed the line, no no, he CROSSED it, many times. The line was clearly drawn and he chose to cross it... repeatedly. I don't have the number of times he was temp-banned and warned handy, but I can look that up later.

wicked wrote:Norse continually tested the limits here in the forums, and often crossed the line. He had plenty of warnings and timeouts and opportunities to adjust his behaviour. After this thread the other day, he was given one more chance to straighten up to avoid a permanent forum ban. Two recent racist posts yesterday/today finally pushed him over the edge:
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... c&start=74

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... t=#1053518

And his comments about Polish people in the "Losing my touch" thread.

Keep in mind these were all made after he was told his very next indiscretion would result in a permanent forum ban. And he was actually given one more shot. Back in November (I believe, going off memory here), he was told then the next time he crossed the line he'd be gone. So yeah DDS, he did get "one last shot" and he blew it.

Posted: **Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:36 pm**

dinobot wrote:
hecter wrote:
wacicha wrote:As I stated, 2 sides are needed So now if you could get someone from the other side 2 explain their issue.

or play devils advocate....and try to express the other side's correct opinoin.

Norse was a troll. He flamed outside of flame wars, expressed borderline racist and bigoted views and he was a downright arsehole.

But by golly, we loved him!

Dude, how do you have so many posts? This forum isn't even interesting; it's just copy pasted walls of text about something no one cares about and people pretending to care about it. FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACK!

1. I have no life
2. I've been here for a little bit longer than you
3. There are other, more interesting forums

Posted: **Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:38 pm**

the poll is confusing, why not a simple"

"free norse?"
yes [100%] 302 votes
no [1%] 1 vote

Posted: **Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:41 pm**

hecter wrote:1. I have no life
2. I've been here for a little bit longer than you
3. There are other, more interesting forums

I have no life either BUT I DON'T SPEND ALL MY TIME TALKING WITH AUTISTIC PEOPLE AUGH! Seriously, why do you people make these topics? You spend 4 hours typing something that only one other person will read and then that one person will spend another 4 hours doing the same thing. This forum consists of thousands of posts made by pretty much the same 5 people.

Posted: **Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:41 pm**

You are correct VI, this is the community's forum, which is why I moved this here for discussion. Every permaban issued has generated a thread such as this one, and we do read the discussions.

Posted: **Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:43 pm**

V.I. wrote:
wacicha wrote:Give enough 2 sided information so that the masses can make a informed VOTE.

The onus is on the Mods to provide satisfactory information as to WHY the current system is operating fairly.

Addressing Hecter's question would be a good start: Why do interesting and articulate flamers receive permabans while spam-happy posters are allowed to remain. The system is obviously flawed and is deserving of attention.

I ask you, "Wise Man", to provide some "2 sided information" to this discussion. We only hope it isn't "2 faced."

Of course, as you point out, you neither "know norse" nor "why he was banned." So perhaps you should quietly usher yourself out of this conversation, cease with the baseless interjections and bring in the Mod(s) responsible for the permaban.

Lastly, this is not "your forum" but, in actuality, OUR forum. If you'd like to be useful to your constituents, huddle up with your fellow Mods and determine WHO issued the permaban and WHY the permaban was issued.

We will not be put off with lame responses such as "offensive language" or "inappropriate comments" We want to see proof, in the form of actual posts, in determining whether or not WE THE CONQUER CLUB COMMUNITY (Majority) believes the Mods (Minority) acted with due cause.

Sir, To let you know who I am. I am in charge of this paticular forum. I do NOT go into the FLAME forum I stay right here. If you took a poll on me I am sure the popular opinion would not be derogitory towards me.

I do not have to explain why the other mods banned anyone I just take care of my little neck of the woods.

Now with that understood, I am trying to have both sides posted so the uninformed may be informed.

I count myself among the uninformed. so you sir, can be part of the solution or ---

Posted: **Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:44 pm**

He isn't going to come back, just look at reverend_kyle and dugcarr1

Conquer Club

The Permaban Penalty

The Permaban Penalty

Re: The Permaban Penalty