Conquer Club

Not from a fear of being unable to escape, but because it's cramped and there's so much stuff everywhere.

Honestly, I hardly even recognise this site any more.

I go to Central Command, and am overwhelmed with links. Also I have these tabs:

Active
Tournaments
Invitations
Waiting
Eliminated
Finished
Requests

What's the difference between Invitations and Requests? Why are my Tournament games separate from Active games? Or is the Tournaments tab something to do with tournaments I'm hosting, so I can track their progress? I don't know, it's not explained anywhere. Or maybe it is, hidden in the complete works of Shakespeare under that 'The Game' link.

Nothing feels intuitive. Even figuring out how to upgrade to premium is a headache (and the 'Store' isn't the first place I'd look to upgrade - I was expecting to find mugs and T-shirts in there).

The Start A Game page is probably the biggest migraine here. Just like Serbia said here, we have billions of maps and no way of sorting them. Side point, because the quality of maps on this site is generally very good, but I find that many maps (some recent ones in particular) are extremely difficult to understand. But I digress.

There are so many game options that I really don't know what's going on. There's a good suggestion hiding away in the archives for dealing with this: Start an Advanced Game, in which koontz1973 basically suggested having a simplified version of the start a game page as the default, but such that a hardcore player can still choose to play a 10-player-terminator-manual-sequential-zombie-parachute-foggy-trench-30-round-2-minute game should they want to.

The Announcements box in the left panel is cluttered and in the way. I get news delivered to my inbox in the newsletter, and also I guess it's on the homepage or something when I sign in? But for the most part the "announcements" aren't really announcements, they're links to new tournaments and challenges and I don't know what else. And when the webmaster does release a new feature, there doesn't seem to be a thread explaining what it is.

I feel like I need a M.Sci. degree in Conquer Club just to play a game of RISK.

But here's the thing...

I love CC. I've invested so much time and effort into it over the last 7 years, and played over 8000 games. I've seen the site change, and watched its complexity develop. I've explored its intricacies, from the myriad maps and settings to playing/hosting tournaments, clan wars, add-ons, volunteering for Team CC, and dabbling in the map foundry. I feel that I've got a better-than-average understanding of how these things operate, but now that's not enough. How then must a new member feel? The in-game panel interface tried to clear up the clutter, but I find it overwhelming and convoluted. And for that matter, when I go to the Settings page, I don't really know what I'm changing.

So with all that said, I don't think CC is a lost cause. But right now it's a mess and feels physically uncomfortable to navigate.

Thoughts?

well said
probably why so many long term hard core members have just stop playing and not renewing membership.
i personally think it is a lost cause nothing like it used to be. The minute bigwham stuck his bigfoot in the door game over conquerclub@rip.com
but hay-ho at least the die hard can play with themselves bots are always after a game.

ManBungalow wrote:Not from a fear of being unable to escape, but because it's cramped and there's so much stuff everywhere.

Honestly, I hardly even recognise this site any more.

I go to Central Command, and am overwhelmed with links. Also I have these tabs:

Active
Tournaments
Invitations
Waiting
Eliminated
Finished
Requests

What's the difference between Invitations and Requests? Why are my Tournament games separate from Active games? Or is the Tournaments tab something to do with tournaments I'm hosting, so I can track their progress? I don't know, it's not explained anywhere. Or maybe it is, hidden in the complete works of Shakespeare under that 'The Game' link.

Nothing feels intuitive. Even figuring out how to upgrade to premium is a headache (and the 'Store' isn't the first place I'd look to upgrade - I was expecting to find mugs and T-shirts in there).

The Start A Game page is probably the biggest migraine here. Just like Serbia said here, we have billions of maps and no way of sorting them. Side point, because the quality of maps on this site is generally very good, but I find that many maps (some recent ones in particular) are extremely difficult to understand. But I digress.

There are so many game options that I really don't know what's going on. There's a good suggestion hiding away in the archives for dealing with this: Start an Advanced Game, in which koontz1973 basically suggested having a simplified version of the start a game page as the default, but such that a hardcore player can still choose to play a 10-player-terminator-manual-sequential-zombie-parachute-foggy-trench-30-round-2-minute game should they want to.

The Announcements box in the left panel is cluttered and in the way. I get news delivered to my inbox in the newsletter, and also I guess it's on the homepage or something when I sign in? But for the most part the "announcements" aren't really announcements, they're links to new tournaments and challenges and I don't know what else. And when the webmaster does release a new feature, there doesn't seem to be a thread explaining what it is.

I feel like I need a M.Sci. degree in Conquer Club just to play a game of RISK.

But here's the thing...

I love CC. I've invested so much time and effort into it over the last 7 years, and played over 8000 games. I've seen the site change, and watched its complexity develop. I've explored its intricacies, from the myriad maps and settings to playing/hosting tournaments, clan wars, add-ons, volunteering for Team CC, and dabbling in the map foundry. I feel that I've got a better-than-average understanding of how these things operate, but now that's not enough. How then must a new member feel? The in-game panel interface tried to clear up the clutter, but I find it overwhelming and convoluted. And for that matter, when I go to the Settings page, I don't really know what I'm changing.

So with all that said, I don't think CC is a lost cause. But right now it's a mess and feels physically uncomfortable to navigate.

Thoughts?

If you could propose one or two changes that would help fix this (besides "redesign the whole site") something concrete that could be improved...what would that be?

Sure remove all the changes happy days. just roll back the clock that's the only improvement the site needs.

codierose wrote:Sure remove all the changes happy days. just roll back the clock that's the only improvement the site needs.

agreed.

ditch parachute, zombie, the 5 options for speed games, polymorphic, maybe trench, 1/3 of the maps (or institute a sort feature - but that seems like it may add to complexity), maybe kill 7, 9 and 11 player games (because if you don't want to play 6, i'm guessing you're fine with 8 and not set on 7) and we may be off to a start.

IcePack wrote:If you could propose one or two changes that would help fix this (besides "redesign the whole site") something concrete that could be improved...what would that be?

Yes, just look in the Suggestions forum, there are a bunch of really good ideas to help improve the site but are shoved on the back burner for things like inventory, Chess, redoing the active game page etc! I'm just too lazy to bother bringing all those really good ideas back to the front, because let's face it, BW won't implement any of them because he wants to implement (IMHO) useless upgrades that the community didn't want,or a VERY small minority wanted. Example, where is conditional bombardments?????

isaiah40 wrote: Example, where is conditional bombardments?????

Isn't that the post that you edited out and deleted? Hard to do much with that idea now....

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=195210&p=4270534#p4270534

This isn't on the back burner for me at least. I've got a slight grip on the content of the Suggestions forum and would love to spill every phenomenal idea over to administration and see them implement every one. However, if that happened, we would have way too many options, complexities, and other hindrances to both clarity and performance of the site. PM me if you've got some specific ideas that should be implemented. I've got a list of just that XML series that the foundry pushed around the time of CB's

You missed some things while you were gone. There was a push for chess around the time it was implemented- hosting other games besides Risk was a growing novelty. Glad to have you back, by the way.


In response to the OP- There needs to be announcements, I'm all with you on that. Problem is, in a workforce of dozens of volunteers, we don't have someone plugged in enough and willing to consistently write the announcements. "A minute BW uses writing announcements is a minute taken away from programming" has been the general consensus, and a very valid one. I'd be happy to do it if I were more in tune with feature release, I know what's coming but not exactly when. Also, there have many times been soft releases, and an Announcement may negate that purpose.

Tournament tabs is for active AutoTournaments to be listed. Requests is for starting guide games and scenarios, and they may have another use or five soon. Maybe there is some way to reduce these two tabs into other ones (i.e. making an "Active Autotournaments" pop-up link in Active Games Page), and if you have any solid ideas that would be fantastic.

JamesKer1 wrote:

isaiah40 wrote: Example, where is conditional bombardments?????

Isn't that the post that you edited out and deleted? Hard to do much with that idea now....

Yes because why bother having it there if it will never see the light of day!? CC already has conditional borders so conditional bombardments should be easy to implement.

It's literally impossible for me to perceive CC from the perspective of a new user.

Everyone whined under lack and el_jefe that the site stagnated.

BigWham comes along and improves the site, adds in many of the suggestions (even some previous administrations had rejected) and you're all still whining..

ManBungalow wrote:I feel like I need a M.Sci. degree in Conquer Club just to play a game of RISK.

I recognize that as someone with an advanced degree that works with supercomputers, that I may not be making the best point here, but I think you're incredibly overstating the argument. If I want to go play a four player speed game on Arms Race, it is basically as straightforward now as it was in 2008. All the other maps and settings that I don't know well don't matter to me. I ignore them. I cannot really comprehend the argument that because there are some extra checkboxes and dropdown menu items on the Start a Game menu, you can no longer even figure out what's going on there.

(This is not to say that there aren't improvements to be made with respect to new users. I have supported the advanced/beginner Start a Game page for that reason. But someone who has been here for years and played thousands of games really has no claim to make that they don't know what's going on, unless they're being intentionally obtuse.)

---------Not everyone whined. Well I guess when you say everyone. You mean the special people,not us poor regular joes. I left things alone for four years. Until someone pissed me off. On Jan. 31st,2013. I made my first post. I even gave some railway help on The World War I map in progress. There have been some good changes and bad. As far as referral program. Does anyone even use it? To be laughed at later if we do. Why, OH MY GOD Why??? Do we need DICE STATS??? MY GOD! WHY!!! Just saying. ConfederateSS...out!!!.(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)..P.S..----I know I'd rather cater to a few cliques,and say bye-bye 20,000 regular joes...

TeeGee wrote:BigWham comes along and improves the site

Debatable. Is adding chess to a RISK based gaming site an improvement, or a needless addition? Not all updates have improved the site. Removing the forum button, for example, and stashing your Premium option under "Store" are two examples which the paying customers have almost universally panned as not an improvement, and not helpful.

Bollocks.

Apparently, I was one of only two or three people that read ManB's post as something other than whining.

I don't think ManB was complaining about the options; I think he was pointing out that the interface upon which one can select options is lacking when it comes to new users. I would be highly intimidated to play a game here.

thegreekdog wrote:Apparently, I was one of only two or three people that read ManB's post as something other than whining.

I don't think ManB was complaining about the options; I think he was pointing out that the interface upon which one can select options is lacking when it comes to new users. I would be highly intimidated to play a game here.

I didn't think ManB was whining at all, it was some of the others in the thread that my post was directed at

thegreekdog wrote:Apparently, I was one of only two or three people that read ManB's post as something other than whining.

I don't think ManB was complaining about the options; I think he was pointing out that the interface upon which one can select options is lacking when it comes to new users. I would be highly intimidated to play a game here.

+1

People begging for a rewind may as well pack it in because it's not happening. Other people who want ten dozen features removed can hush up too because that's not happening.

The issue isn't that there is too much to choose from. The issue is that it's all so in your face that many players don't know where to start. Things need to be simple and they need to be explained. The menu at the top is not enough, nobody uses it. The links in-game to explain the various settings aren't even obvious; who knows their links without accidentally clicking them? ManB makes good points in my opinion.

Just don't get me started on the panels. They're horrendous and make everything 10x as cluttered.

what a great post... and i can tell you that hit it dead on the head with it... my long time dubs partner, jbrettlip, came back to CC after i begged him... the panels and the new look and the arrangement of things, made he flee after one set of games. he asked me how i could even navigate or know what i was doing, it was just so confusing to him. and this was the guy that talked me into joining CC and then taught me how to play the game, became my regular partner, started up a clan with me, etc, etc, etc... if someone that was here for years is overwhelmed when coming back, imagine this site to fresh eyes... it is daunting... CC isn't dead, it just needs to figure out how to wax it's legs, put on a push up, and do the tuck (like ronC)... the black jesus has spoken...-Jésus noir

CC WILL SURVIVE!!!!

TeeGee wrote:Everyone whined under lack and el_jefe that the site stagnated.

BigWham comes along and improves the site, adds in many of the suggestions (even some previous administrations had rejected) and you're all still whining..

improved what? I thought Lackattack did a great job.

Non premium still and having a better time !

iAmCaffeine wrote:

thegreekdog wrote:Apparently, I was one of only two or three people that read ManB's post as something other than whining.

I don't think ManB was complaining about the options; I think he was pointing out that the interface upon which one can select options is lacking when it comes to new users. I would be highly intimidated to play a game here.

+1

People begging for a rewind may as well pack it in because it's not happening. Other people who want ten dozen features removed can hush up too because that's not happening.

The issue isn't that there is too much to choose from. The issue is that it's all so in your face that many players don't know where to start. Things need to be simple and they need to be explained. The menu at the top is not enough, nobody uses it. The links in-game to explain the various settings aren't even obvious; who knows their links without accidentally clicking them? ManB makes good points in my opinion.

Just don't get me started on the panels. They're horrendous and make everything 10x as cluttered.

New users have a guided / controlled experience on the site now so it's a little less daunting than one might think.

IcePack wrote:New users have a guided / controlled experience on the site now so it's a little less daunting than one might think.

i must have missed that post in the announcements... i am sure it has beautiful screen shots and wicked cool examples with pointy arrows and shit, pointing at some of the things users have suggested over the years... man, i'm running over to announcements to find this right now...-Jésus noir

IcePack wrote:

iAmCaffeine wrote:

thegreekdog wrote:Apparently, I was one of only two or three people that read ManB's post as something other than whining.

I don't think ManB was complaining about the options; I think he was pointing out that the interface upon which one can select options is lacking when it comes to new users. I would be highly intimidated to play a game here.

+1

People begging for a rewind may as well pack it in because it's not happening. Other people who want ten dozen features removed can hush up too because that's not happening.

The issue isn't that there is too much to choose from. The issue is that it's all so in your face that many players don't know where to start. Things need to be simple and they need to be explained. The menu at the top is not enough, nobody uses it. The links in-game to explain the various settings aren't even obvious; who knows their links without accidentally clicking them? ManB makes good points in my opinion.

Just don't get me started on the panels. They're horrendous and make everything 10x as cluttered.

New users have a guided / controlled experience on the site now so it's a little less daunting than one might think.

Great. Change my fun experience so a new player can understand something a little easier. my 9 years vs a new recruit. You figure it out.

Don't mind me. It is my turn in my bot games.

IcePack wrote:New users have a guided / controlled experience on the site now so it's a little less daunting than one might think.

I hope you're referring to more than just the guide games, because most of those are a joke.

JOHNNYROCKET24 wrote:Great. Change my fun experience so a new player can understand something a little easier. my 9 years vs a new recruit. You figure it out.

Don't mind me. It is my turn in my bot games.

i took those as words of encouragement... if they cleaned up or are cleaning up the mess that new recruits see when joining, they took a huge leap. i couldn't tell you, i went to announcements to find that thread with screen shots and graphs and before and after shots, and just couldn't find it. they asked us how to retain people and that has been the number one suggestion, from what i have seen in the forums. CLEAN UP THE OVER LOAD AND LIMIT WHAT THEY CAN SEE AND PLAY!!! and if they have done that, another kudo to Big Wham and his obsession with catered cajun food (oh, i hope some of you get that, even you, BW)... alright, Black Jesus, OUT!-Jésus noir

owenshooter wrote:

IcePack wrote:New users have a guided / controlled experience on the site now so it's a little less daunting than one might think.

i must have missed that post in the announcements... i am sure it has beautiful screen shots and wicked cool examples with pointy arrows and shit, pointing at some of the things users have suggested over the years... man, i'm running over to announcements to find this right now...-Jésus noir

What good does an announcement do for brand new players? Announcements are geared towards existing players who read the forums. As it is constantly tweaked to see what works better to new players, see what keeps them around etc there really isn't going to be an accurate announcement on the subject as it will likely change until we find something that works / BW is happy with.


iAmCaffiene: Guide games are a part of it, but only one aspect. Although guide games have had an impact on conversion rates, so while you may feel they're a joke, they have been a helpful tool to new users.

IcePack wrote:

owenshooter wrote:

IcePack wrote:New users have a guided / controlled experience on the site now so it's a little less daunting than one might think.

i must have missed that post in the announcements... i am sure it has beautiful screen shots and wicked cool examples with pointy arrows and shit, pointing at some of the things users have suggested over the years... man, i'm running over to announcements to find this right now...-Jésus noir

What good does an announcement do for brand new players? Announcements are geared towards existing players who read the forums. As it is constantly tweaked to see what works better to new players, see what keeps them around etc there really isn't going to be an accurate announcement on the subject as it will likely change until we find something that works / BW is happy with.


iAmCaffiene: Guide games are a part of it, but only one aspect. Although guide games have had an impact on conversion rates, so while you may feel they're a joke, they have been a helpful tool to new users.

not for brankd new players... ugh... let me explain this in the simplest way i can. when you ask users for input... and users have been suggesting things like, "SIMPLIFY THE GAME FOR NEW PLAYERS"... you might want to let people know it has been done, wouldn't you think? that is also something people take into consideration before buying premium/re-investing in the site... we are under 10k players now, and it is getting harder and harder for a lot of us older players to stick around... when you take steps in the right direction, you should herald those and let the people that have been asking for changes, know they have been done... i don't know, just seems logical... *cough*...-Jn