Conquer Club

ok, so basically the site strips freemium from people who start fresh with a new account; as it is seen as unfair as they get more points that they are ought to from their wins with that new account. fucking bullshit. the site promotes yoyo players with the dumbass "most improved leaderboard" and you can get literally ass raped.

ok, i'm an idiot i launched some bingo-lottery tournaments for the sake of creating tournaments. I asked a few friends to help me fill it in, and of course i was called a pussy for not joining myself. So here I am, joining bingo-lotto, hoping I won't lose too many points. So here I am, fighting against a super low ranked; in the meanwhile i become general again and this dude drops all the way to cook. so of course I lose 100pts.

http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=14922661
Fakyras

what pisses me off is his points range, and that he has a most improved silver, which proves it's what he does all the time. There he is now, second of the most improved leaderboard with +70+% increase of his score (wow sergeant 1st class, this sure deserves a prize for such outstanding shit!!!)

if a guy starts fresh on the site he's at 1000, which is already better than yoyo players that go for the stupid prizes given by this site that are the ones truly fucking the points system.
I don't give a shit if gary comes back on the site after 3 years, that he used to be major back in the days blahblah; and then he does the major offense of forgetting his account and PW so he gets his premium stripped. the site encourages players to be point clowns in the first place!

Haaa, Hah!

Did somebody swipe 100 wee little points from betiko, awe Downt cwy betiko, you will get your points back.
At least you have all those fantastic medows...they cant take them away from you, nobody will know you is a looser.
LIFE IS UNFAIR!
Better get use to it. Stop your blubbering and try to have fun

Gweeedo wrote:Haaa, Hah!

Did somebody swipe 100 wee little points from betiko, awe Downt cwy betiko, you will get your points back.
At least you have all those fantastic medows...they cant take them away from you, nobody will know you is a looser.
LIFE IS UNFAIR!
Better get use to it. Stop your blubbering and try to have fun

I know english is your first language and shit; but please try to learn how to spell loser, and try to stay on topic (the problem is that you have no idea of what i'm talking about, just like any game related topic you throw your 2 cents in).

You're completely correct, betiko. In most rated games, (chess, go, scrabble, etc.) sandbagging is considered a form of cheating. Here, it gets you prizes. This kind of thing drives away good players and rewards cheaters. And then they wonder why membership keeps dropping to new lows. I doubt anything will change, though. They appear to like it this way.

degaston wrote:They appear to like it this way.

Point dumping is still against the rules. C+A can solve this.

inb4 owenshooter "spamming is against the rules"

degaston wrote:You're completely correct, betiko. In most rated games, (chess, go, scrabble, etc.) sandbagging is considered a form of cheating. Here, it gets you prizes. This kind of thing drives away good players and rewards cheaters. And then they wonder why membership keeps dropping to new lows. I doubt anything will change, though. They appear to like it this way.

Also, i think it s totally unfair to keep the same win/loss ratio no matter the map/setting. 1v1 on simple maps cannot give 5/100 ration, meaning you have to win 20 games for 1 loss. It s absolutely impossible to achieve such win ratios with simple settings and map in 1v1.
I think each player should have a level per setting and per map that should be considered when attributing points at the end of a game.
I think it s wrong that the point system makes you avoid at all costs certain players because of their current rank. Mostly with the numerous yoyo sandbagers we have around now.

DoomYoshi wrote:

degaston wrote:They appear to like it this way.

Point dumping is still against the rules. C+A can solve this.

Unless you are a bit too genuine or you don t know it s forbidden; secret point dumping is the easiest thing to do. If you don t want to win, it s not very hard to lose you know. Go prove it if the guy isn t advertising it in the chat, or if the guy isn t deliberately missing turns. Hell, you can join 200 games and play your turns like 3 times a week. No chance to win them all.

DoomYoshi wrote:

degaston wrote:They appear to like it this way.

Point dumping is still against the rules. C+A can solve this.

Who's going to file a C&A against them? The other point dumpers who didn't cheat quite as well?

Here are the top 5 "Most Improved" players so far for October:

1. CC888 - 2214 (Range: 1196-2924)
2. Fakyras - 1423 (Range: 691-2179)
3. blade47 - 1584 (Range: 832-1904)
4. Donald Fung - 1963 (Range: 926-2382)
5. CW4 - 1349 (Range: 708-1431)

They all dropped to between 1/2 and 1/3 of their previous high. None of them made it back to where they were, and yet these players will be given prizes for playing well? Other players shouldn't have to monitor this board. The admins should just use it as a handy list of who should be punished for cheating. But since the existence of this list is the main reason that this sort of cheating is going on, why not just scrap it?

A player like CC888 is a tricky case. Since the majority of the games are speed games, the fluctuations are increased by that factor. I might jump 200-300 points in a year. If I played speed games, I could do that in a month.

The thing is that the new scoreboard makes it extremely easy to verify point dumping since you can look at any time period.

Of course, the search function doesn't appear to be working now.

betiko wrote:

degaston wrote:You're completely correct, betiko. In most rated games, (chess, go, scrabble, etc.) sandbagging is considered a form of cheating. Here, it gets you prizes. This kind of thing drives away good players and rewards cheaters. And then they wonder why membership keeps dropping to new lows. I doubt anything will change, though. They appear to like it this way.

Also, i think it s totally unfair to keep the same win/loss ratio no matter the map/setting. 1v1 on simple maps cannot give 5/100 ration, meaning you have to win 20 games for 1 loss. It s absolutely impossible to achieve such win ratios with simple settings and map in 1v1.
I think each player should have a level per setting and per map that should be considered when attributing points at the end of a game.
I think it s wrong that the point system makes you avoid at all costs certain players because of their current rank. Mostly with the numerous yoyo sandbagers we have around now.

I agree - I think that the overall win/loss ratio should be based on the number of wins per opponent or team faced. And bot games should not be included in the calculation.
Points won/lost could be based on a combination of your success with that particular map, and at each of the selected settings. The change would confuse people at first, but it would lead to more stable and more meaningful ratings.
Unrated games and rating restricted games would also be nice. I believe that all of these things have been suggested at one time or another.
The suggestions forum is where good ideas go to die.

DoomYoshi wrote:A player like CC888 is a tricky case. Since the majority of the games are speed games, the fluctuations are increased by that factor. I might jump 200-300 points in a year. If I played speed games, I could do that in a month.

The thing is that the new scoreboard makes it extremely easy to verify point dumping since you can look at any time period.

If someone drops almost 2000 points in a month, I can see only two possible conclusions - they're deliberately point dumping, or the rating system is meaningless - perhaps a combination of both.

I realize that a dice game is going to have more variation than one of pure skill. But if random variation is the reason for these swings, then why reward it? I think that the existence of that list is causing a lot of harm to the site for no discernible benefit.

degaston wrote:

DoomYoshi wrote:A player like CC888 is a tricky case. Since the majority of the games are speed games, the fluctuations are increased by that factor. I might jump 200-300 points in a year. If I played speed games, I could do that in a month.

The thing is that the new scoreboard makes it extremely easy to verify point dumping since you can look at any time period.

If someone drops almost 2000 points in a month, I can see only two possible conclusions - they're deliberately point dumping, or the rating system is meaningless - perhaps a combination of both.

All systems get "gamed" at some point or another.

DoomYoshi wrote:A player like CC888 is a tricky case. Since the majority of the games are speed games, the fluctuations are increased by that factor. I might jump 200-300 points in a year. If I played speed games, I could do that in a month.

Month, hell. Last week I moved about 300 points down and 200 points back up in the same week, and I don't play speed games. People who play a lot of speed games might move that much in a couple hours.

This has already been taken care of with the prizes given now versus the first few months.

DoomYoshi wrote:I might jump 200-300 points in a year. If I played speed games, I could do that in a month.

you can jump 200-300 points within minutes... well you used to be able to... ass doodles have kinda died...

betiko wrote:ok, so basically the site strips freemium from people who start fresh with a new account; as it is seen as unfair as they get more points that they are ought to from their wins with that new account. fucking bullshit. the site promotes yoyo players with the dumbass "most improved leaderboard" and you can get literally ass raped.

ok, i'm an idiot i launched some bingo-lottery tournaments for the sake of creating tournaments. I asked a few friends to help me fill it in, and of course i was called a pussy for not joining myself. So here I am, joining bingo-lotto, hoping I won't lose too many points. So here I am, fighting against a super low ranked; in the meanwhile i become general again and this dude drops all the way to cook. so of course I lose 100pts.

http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=14922661
Fakyras

what pisses me off is his points range, and that he has a most improved silver, which proves it's what he does all the time. There he is now, second of the most improved leaderboard with +70+% increase of his score (wow sergeant 1st class, this sure deserves a prize for such outstanding shit!!!)

if a guy starts fresh on the site he's at 1000, which is already better than yoyo players that go for the stupid prizes given by this site that are the ones truly fucking the points system.
I don't give a shit if gary comes back on the site after 3 years, that he used to be major back in the days blahblah; and then he does the major offense of forgetting his account and PW so he gets his premium stripped. the site encourages players to be point clowns in the first place!

You knew the score, so why are you being a pussy now?
You joined, not wanting to be a pussy; STOP!
You are embarrassing yourself.
To be a pussy or not to be a pussy, that is the question.

It is not to win or lose (points), it is how you play the game.
Your better than this. We all know you are a skillful player, please stop crying, cheat, foul every time you get beat by a weaker player, or when game rules do not suit you.
You are not in fact playing a game of Risk, you play a game of points...I can't see much enjoyment in that.
You take this game much to serious, it is not that complicated a game to care so much about points.

Dukasaur wrote:

DoomYoshi wrote:A player like CC888 is a tricky case. Since the majority of the games are speed games, the fluctuations are increased by that factor. I might jump 200-300 points in a year. If I played speed games, I could do that in a month.

Month, hell. Last week I moved about 300 points down and 200 points back up in the same week, and I don't play speed games. People who play a lot of speed games might move that much in a couple hours.

Well yes i have to agree with this. When i was a big speed gamer, i used to join all kind of stupid games (like the one in the op) against all type of players and i could have these point variations in one night (most of the time losing them). If you win just 50% on luck based games against low rankers you can get -300 points in a few hours easily. Nevertheless I always managed to get them back more or less, by having a better game selection.
Maybe the point system should be based on an average ranking during the previous 6 month or so.
We all know the crown trick, followed by the josko trick.
I have some 12 player games i m about to win and i d rather take care of all of my losers before i cash in the 12p victory. That s stupid we have to do such thing.

Gweeedo wrote:

betiko wrote:ok, so basically the site strips freemium from people who start fresh with a new account; as it is seen as unfair as they get more points that they are ought to from their wins with that new account. fucking bullshit. the site promotes yoyo players with the dumbass "most improved leaderboard" and you can get literally ass raped.

ok, i'm an idiot i launched some bingo-lottery tournaments for the sake of creating tournaments. I asked a few friends to help me fill it in, and of course i was called a pussy for not joining myself. So here I am, joining bingo-lotto, hoping I won't lose too many points. So here I am, fighting against a super low ranked; in the meanwhile i become general again and this dude drops all the way to cook. so of course I lose 100pts.

http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=14922661
Fakyras

what pisses me off is his points range, and that he has a most improved silver, which proves it's what he does all the time. There he is now, second of the most improved leaderboard with +70+% increase of his score (wow sergeant 1st class, this sure deserves a prize for such outstanding shit!!!)

if a guy starts fresh on the site he's at 1000, which is already better than yoyo players that go for the stupid prizes given by this site that are the ones truly fucking the points system.
I don't give a shit if gary comes back on the site after 3 years, that he used to be major back in the days blahblah; and then he does the major offense of forgetting his account and PW so he gets his premium stripped. the site encourages players to be point clowns in the first place!

You knew the score, so why are you being a pussy now?
You joined, not wanting to be a pussy; STOP!
You are embarrassing yourself.
To be a pussy or not to be a pussy, that is the question.

It is not to win or lose (points), it is how you play the game.
Your better than this. We all know you are a skillful player, please stop crying, cheat, foul every time you get beat by a weaker player, or when game rules do not suit you.
You are not in fact playing a game of Risk, you play a game of points...I can't see much enjoyment in that.
You take this game much to serious, it is not that complicated a game to care so much about points.

I stand corrected.

DoomYoshi wrote:

degaston wrote:They appear to like it this way.

Point dumping is still against the rules. C+A can solve this.

But why create and maintain an incentive structure that rewards 'sandbagging'?

Sure, point dumping is illegal, but it's not properly enforced. In many cases, it can't be properly enforced. For example, people can join a bunch of ass-doodles to legally point dump and then shoot for the most improved status. For these cases, (which seem often), C&A cannot prevent them because technically it's legal. Essentially, the Most Improved Scoreboard rewards this vague means of cheating (sandbagging), so why not scrap it?

DoomYoshi wrote:

degaston wrote:

DoomYoshi wrote:A player like CC888 is a tricky case. Since the majority of the games are speed games, the fluctuations are increased by that factor. I might jump 200-300 points in a year. If I played speed games, I could do that in a month.

The thing is that the new scoreboard makes it extremely easy to verify point dumping since you can look at any time period.

If someone drops almost 2000 points in a month, I can see only two possible conclusions - they're deliberately point dumping, or the rating system is meaningless - perhaps a combination of both.

All systems get "gamed" at some point or another.

Sure, but how does justify that the benefits of the Most Improved scoreboard offset the costs?