Conquer Club

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king achilles wrote:Busted with DIE MOSCA

Last game of DIE MOSCA Game 7854979 Finished 2010-10-27

king achilles wrote:There is more than what you see in this report and this was handled according to that. He can still upgrade his original account into premium to become legit again. Let's leave it at that. We do give considerations when needed and when it is fair to the situation. This is already closed and I am locking it.

So. Here is the case, a guy come back after four years. Forgot his password and has no access to his old email adress. So he create a new account.

CC bust him for multi count.

Then CC ask him to buy premium again to be able to play - he was freemium.

The guy is gone and will very probably never come back to CC. ->

http://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/whe ... e/#!bGEUsH


I am pretty amazed. The guy should definitely be able to play without having to upgrade to premium.
Assuming he wanted to play risk for FREE, I see no reason why he will buy premium to play after having been busted for no reason AT ALL.

CC admin, mods from C and A, this is insane.


I do not care about that one guy. But if this is the rule currently enforced, the rule has to be changed. I hope everyone can realize it.


1) He should not have been banned.
2) Asking him to buy premium is a total non-sense. I don't even grasp how you can think he would do it.

There is a LOT more to this than what was on the public forum. King A did not act in haste.

Well. 2 things.
1- As I said I do not really care about this case, I am wondering about the general ruling.
It does seem that if you come back after several years and do not care of your previous account, you may get busted even if you did not do anything bad.

2- About this case, ka said " busted with DIE MOSCA". Is there any other multi ? If not I still don't get it.


From another topic on a similar case : ( created a new account, but, was told by users to submit an e-ticket, was premium, get back his old account).

My lord! That was the most miserable process I've been through in a long time. Forced out of 20 games right in the middle of them, what a mess!

Anyway, I'm still interested...

I am wondering. If he hadn't been premium, would have it be as "easy" ?
If he had been reported in C et A before someone tell him, would he have been busted and forced to buy premium to play again ? ( if he wasn't premium, beeing premium I understand premium is transferred ??).

If it was just that one sole "multi" and there have never been any occurences of the 2 accounts playing together in the same time period, then quite frankly it's bullshit to have to buy your way back into the game!

Another piss take that is this site.

Digging your own grave.

I can't answer for C and A, but I will put my neck on the line to try and put your mind at ease. It did involve multiple accounts, more than they mentioned.

As for that other case you mentioned, I am aware of that one too.. and I understand his frustrations in wanting to bring the other games across to the old account. Maybe it is something that should be looked at implementing if it is at all possible.

Everything that makes it easier for customers is good:)

When you go to log in there is - or at least used to be - a warning that you cannot create more than one account, and a place to click for help in gaining access to an old account.

Why? Really, it protects those players still playing on the site.

CC is based on taking or giving points, with the idea that as one becomes more experienced at this or that game-type or map, one might be able to take more points than one gives. And, let's say that 4 years ago someone made it to 3 stripes. Now they create a new account and come on with a ? The ? is going to take more points than the three stripes so potentially build rank "artificially" faster because they look like a new player but really they're 3-stripe-experienced. (This could also work in that player's favor if they were really careless before and lost enough points to be a cook.)

Additionally, it costs money for CC to maintain user accounts. If they're going to be free accounts, this is money CC spends without getting any money in return from that player.

If it's a player who's proven to make multiple accounts, CC does historically offer them an option to buy their way out of perma-bans so they can play on one account, usually their original account.

You could call it a fine for breaking the rules.

You could also call it just punishment for cheating the rest of us... because if a free player creates multiple accounts, we who buy premium are paying to subsidize the costs of maintaining those accounts; and if that happens enough, our price to pay to play goes up.

I mean, if everyone on this site had 2 free accounts, the price for premium could potentially double.

Personally I'm not willing to pay double because others choose not to read that they should take steps to get back old accounts rather than create new ones; or because, once caught, they're still not willing to pay a fair "fine" for having broken that rule and cheated the rest of us.

in all seriousness, i generally support King A, because he is good at what he does. of all the mods/admins, i trust him the most. my list of all time team members i trust would go like this. quick side note, this list does not include banned mods or dead mods:
1. twill
2. lackattack
3. King A
4. nagerous/lord voldemort/clapper011/fuzzy penguin

i rarely question what he does, because i know he weighs it all before acting... i'm sure there is more to this than meets the eye...-el Jesus negro

p.s.-in all seriousness, the best mod of all times i was not able to put on the list, because she is no longer active.. we loved her so much, members wrote songs of tribute to her...

CC is based on taking or giving points, with the idea that as one becomes more experienced at this or that game-type or map, one might be able to take more points than one gives. And, let's say that 4 years ago someone made it to 3 stripes. Now they create a new account and come on with a ? The ? is going to take more points than the three stripes so potentially build rank "artificially" faster because they look like a new player but really they're 3-stripe-experienced. (This could also work in that player's favor if they were really careless before and lost enough points to be a cook.)

Well this is not important at all. In a very few games he will be 3-stripe again and if he is not worth better than 3-stripe, he'll remain 3-stripe. Points doesn't matter. They change a lot and fast.

Personally I'm not willing to pay double because others choose not to read that they should take steps to get back old accounts rather than create new ones; or because, once caught, they're still not willing to pay a fair "fine" for having broken that rule and cheated the rest of us.

I do not think maintaining old unused account has an important cost. Otherwise old accounts would be deleted.

You could also call it just punishment for cheating the rest of us... because if a free player creates multiple accounts, we who buy premium are paying to subsidize the costs of maintaining those accounts; and if that happens enough, our price to pay to play goes up.

I mean, if everyone on this site had 2 free accounts, the price for premium could potentially double.

Speaking of real multi, people having 2 account at the same time. I am 100% behind you. Speaking of someone coming back 4 years later and never playing the 2 account at the same time, no it doesn't matter.

TeeGee wrote:I can't answer for C and A, but I will put my neck on the line to try and put your mind at ease. It did involve multiple accounts, more than they mentioned.

Well if he had several account, then this is understandable. I am just wondering why then ka only said "Busted with DIE MOSCA" and not "Busted with DIE MOSCA and .... and .... ".



If actually old members coming back are receiving better treatment that what I thought they are, then everything is fine.

Donelladan wrote:Speaking of real multi, people having 2 account at the same time. I am 100% behind you. Speaking of someone coming back 4 years later and never playing the 2 account at the same time, no it doesn't matter.

What about 2 years? One year? Six months? Three months? One week? One day?

Where should the dividing line be between "2 account at same time" versus, "I got tired of" or "lost access to" old account so create a new one? It's generally easier to maintain one solid line than it is to let people push on it, because if 4 years is okay, then some other amount of time is okay too.

Might be better, though, if CC made a firm stance about deleting inactive accounts after x period of time like many gamesites do. They might have less problems that way.

Donelladan wrote:Well if he had several account, then this is understandable. I am just wondering why then ka only said "Busted with DIE MOSCA" and not "Busted with DIE MOSCA and .... and .... ".

CC notoriously does not provide all details for some other user's infractions. We may not trust CC about it, but frankly, its not much of our business if it's not our account.
If it was for multiple accounts but the others are inactive, we're back to what we discussed prior paragraph.
If it was for multiple accounts and more than one are active, it might be nice to see the list but again we're back to "is it really our business if it's someone else's account?"

Donelladan wrote:If actually old members coming back are receiving better treatment that what I thought they are, then everything is fine.

Sometimes existing members aren't treated very well depending on the mod so why should members coming back be treated any better?

I still maintain that, like the rule or not, the rule of "do not create a second account, instead contact us to get your original account back," is there, and being there, it's fine if CC wants to say, "You're busted, so if you want to play play on your original account and you'll have to buy membership to do it."

Sounds like you're saying that with one alternate dead free account and a new active premium account that gets busted and, per your idea, the mems on the new account should be transferred to the one CC dictates should be used..

Okay, so what if instead of 1 old free/1 new premium we found 1 old free/3 new premium.... Should the mems of the 3 new premium be transferred to the original if they get busted without having to pay extra? No? What if the dude says, "One was my girlfriend's one was my brother's but neither of them play anymore so I was playing them all." No? Yes? What if it was just one extra that really was the girlfriend's, should CC transfer the extra membership to the dude who is playing?

Or just say: You're busted, pay again to play... which is sort of what they do now.

Bottom line: I agree that maybe CC should permanently delete inactive accounts after some period of time and that may cut out some of the hassle.

But when, according to the info on the case of the 4 year account (which is recent so I figure that's what's being referred to)... the guy tossed off being investigated by saying, "I'll just create another new one if this gets banned." It doesn't usually pay to give the arresting cop the finger as he's frisking you

I usually don't ring in on the side of "the establishment" but in this case, I happen to agree that it's fair to charge the guy for premium again if he wants to keep playing at all. On the other hand, I agree with what I think is your idea, that CC start deleting too-dusty accounts.

The original account had played almost 600 games. He knew multiple accounts were not allowed.

I don't understand why it is so hard to send in an e-ticket and ask for assistance and explain about the old account BEFORE playing any games. It really isn't that hard.

Evil,

do you understand that using the internet can be somewhat impulsive?

shickingbrits wrote:Evil,

do you understand that using the internet can be somewhat impulsive?

I learned something today. Thanks

owenshooter wrote:in all seriousness, i generally support King A, because he is good at what he does. of all the mods/admins, i trust him the most. my list of all time team members i trust would go like this. quick side note, this list does not include banned mods or dead mods:
1. twill
2. lackattack
3. King A
4. nagerous/lord voldemort/clapper011/fuzzy penguin

i rarely question what he does, because i know he weighs it all before acting... i'm sure there is more to this than meets the eye...-el Jesus negro

p.s.-in all seriousness, the best mod of all times i was not able to put on the list, because she is no longer active.. we loved her so much, members wrote songs of tribute to her...

woo gets a mention

The original account had played almost 600 games. He knew multiple accounts were not allowed.

I don't understand why it is so hard to send in an e-ticket and ask for assistance and explain about the old account BEFORE playing any games. It really isn't that hard.

What seems obvious to you may not be obivous for everyone else.
Creating another account several years after the first one does not look at all like creating 3 or 5 freemium account to play more.

I believe the multi-account rule was rather referring to people having several account at the same time rather that to the case I explained at the beginning.

And playing 600 games doesn't mean you ever been in the forum, and know a thing about multi count, C and A or e-ticket.

In all honesty I would totally have believe my old account was deactivated if I had been coming back to CC after 4 years, even just before this affair I would have believe it didn't matter if I created a new account after 4 years break. And I played thousands of games.

I had an issue with how a player reacted to him mentioning a previous account, rather than an issue with him getting busted. It annoyed me when I saw the immediate accusations. Okay, turns out he was correct in his hunch, but it still doesn't make it right. The guy could have been innocently logging into a new account after 4 years and met with that hostility. People can be a bit nicer. The correct thing to do is tell the player, then report it. Even if it's to PM an admin and say "Hey, I directed this player to file an e-ticket after he mentioned having another account." That's what I do in these cases. That way you are covering both possibilities (genuine returnee or clever multi trying to use that) without making a big deal out of it and possibly accusing someone in the wrong.

Like, the admins can look into it from there. It isn't up to members to start accusing and playing detective.

I agree with tha Shannon!
But damn i look good in my vigilante cape

Shannon Apple wrote:I had an issue with how a player reacted to him mentioning a previous account, rather than an issue with him getting busted. It annoyed me when I saw the immediate accusations. Okay, turns out he was correct in his hunch, but it still doesn't make it right. The guy could have been innocently logging into a new account after 4 years and met with that hostility. People can be a bit nicer. The correct thing to do is tell the player, then report it. Even if it's to PM an admin and say "Hey, I directed this player to file an e-ticket after he mentioned having another account." That's what I do in these cases. That way you are covering both possibilities (genuine returnee or clever multi trying to use that) without making a big deal out of it and possibly accusing someone in the wrong.

Like, the admins can look into it from there. It isn't up to members to start accusing and playing detective.

I agree with much of this, but u went off the deep end with your last comment. Vigilante? Hardly. But its not up to members? Yeah. It sorta is. There have been members who have accurately reported hundreds of multis. Without members reporting multis, there would be soo many more around here. As far as reporting? If they happen to report someone in error? So what? You get cleared and life goes on. Unless the persons are concerned with their CC rep or some lame ass thing.

Donelladan wrote:I believe the multi-account rule was rather referring to people having several account at the same time rather that to the case I explained at the beginning.

Historically, it's meant having any more than one account; time you play it has not mattered. Maybe it should mean as you say, but historically it's simply meant you ignored the warning not to create another account but instead send a ticket to gain access to old account.

Donelladan wrote:And playing 600 games doesn't mean you ever been in the forum, and know a thing about multi count, C and A or e-ticket.

In all honesty I would totally have believe my old account was deactivated if I had been coming back to CC after 4 years, even just before this affair I would have believe it didn't matter if I created a new account after 4 years break. And I played thousands of games.

So, in all honesty, you would totally ignore the warning on the page where you're inputting information for an account; a page that states you should not create new accounts if you have one but instead (click the button to) send an e-ticket.

Shannon Apple wrote: The guy could have been innocently logging into a new account after 4 years and met with that hostility. Like, the admins can look into it from there. It isn't up to members to start accusing and playing detective.

Bypassing the warning to NOT create another account means he did it deliberately. It's not "hostile" to file a cheating/abuse report if you suspect something, that's how, like, the admins know to look into it from there. In which case, it IS up to members to start accusing.

As I mentioned to Donelladan, it may be that CC should consider changing their system to delete inactivated accounts and require players to instead create new accounts after x period of inactivity; but that's not how the system is currently.

So, in all honesty, you would totally ignore the warning on the page where you're inputting information for an account; a page that states you should not create new accounts if you have one but instead (click the button to) send an e-ticket.

I just checked, created a new account, there is no page no warning saying you should not create a new account at all. Just to let you know .

Donelladan wrote:

So, in all honesty, you would totally ignore the warning on the page where you're inputting information for an account; a page that states you should not create new accounts if you have one but instead (click the button to) send an e-ticket.

I just checked, created a new account, there is no page no warning saying you should not create a new account at all. Just to let you know .

There used to be a check box saying you agreed to one account or something like that...not sure if its still there, or what.

There is a check box asking if you agree to the "Term of use". I guess if you do read the term of use it is written only one account per person. But otherwise the registering process is quite fast, and there is nothing saying about multi account or don't create a 2nd account.
And most people do not read term of use.

Donelladan wrote:There is a check box asking if you agree to the "Term of use". I guess if you do read the term of use it is written only one account per person. But otherwise the registering process is quite fast, and there is nothing saying about multi account or don't create a 2nd account.
And most people do not read term of use.

Yeah then it's changed. I know before when picking your username etc there was a box that said like " this is my one and only account" or something (been awhile so I forget exactly )

Donelladan wrote:There is a check box asking if you agree to the "Term of use". I guess if you do read the term of use it is written only one account per person. But otherwise the registering process is quite fast, and there is nothing saying about multi account or don't create a 2nd account.
And most people do not read term of use.

It doesn't appear to be in the terms of use anywhere. The only place it seems to be is on the Rules page, which, as far as I can tell, you aren't directed to during account creation at all.

Donelladan wrote:

So, in all honesty, you would totally ignore the warning on the page where you're inputting information for an account; a page that states you should not create new accounts if you have one but instead (click the button to) send an e-ticket.

I just checked, created a new account, there is no page no warning saying you should not create a new account at all. Just to let you know .

I would like to report Donnelladan as a multi!! he blatantly disregarded the non-existent warning and created a second account.