Conquer Club

I think that in almost every nuke/zombie game I've been in people who conquer a territory with bad spoils in hand (especially with a double pair which gives very little idea of where your stack is safe) have had the decency to end turn and take a 5th spoil.
This just happened to me the other day in a 12 player trips nukes. Someone ran out of time on purpose and I got a bit mad about it.
The argument of him and his team was that it's within the rules; my argument being that this is the exploitation of a loophole and borderline cheating. Definitely the opposite of fair play and going against the spirit of nuke spoils, and never a rule.

what is your opinion on the matter?

If I'm not wrong, this will soon stop as you should now always get a card if you don't end turn after conquering a territory (only if the game is sequential); it became a submitted suggestion.

To bad the game in question has chat that is all in French. Figured there would be some good reading there. I don't like the tactic either...not so sure it is sportsmanlike.

I've done it once or twice and didn't feel good doing it at all. Definitely not sportsmanlike and a loophole that should be closed. If you conquer a territory, you should get a card.

The same loophole exists in team escalating games. Agents of Chaos lost Clan League 3 finals because of that loophole.

It's a legitimate strategy. It also comes with a cost, It's a trade off for losing the chance to fortify.

*Edit* still lots to learn here.

What you describe is cheating chiro. It s not allowed to miss 3 turns on purpose to give your troops+regions to a teammate thanks to that 3 miss elimination. There s been a lot of abuse with the hive map in team games and it s been ruled out ever since.
When i m in that situation, i just know i can t move, i can just stack and wait for the right moment to make a huge raid when the timing is right.

And sure you can t fort, but you are leaving your stack on a region you have the card for, that s why you miss the spoil in the first place. I ve done it in the past, and people foed me and got mad for that. I stopped doing it and I think that very few people do it now.
I m ok if it s ruled in when the game starts.. But it sure changes strategies and you can t just pull out such move in the middle of a game where obviously no one has been doing it..

demonfork wrote:It's a legitimate strategy. It also comes with a cost, It's a trade off for losing the chance to fortify.

Not if it is unlimited or no spoils.

TO get back on topic;

I think there even have been cases in the C&A on this where people got convicted for gross abuse of game mechanics, so there is some ruling there. Though it probably has to happen more often then just once but you might be able to get more info from someone in the C&A forums if you PM them, they might now when its getting out of hand and stuff. So your best bet is probably to PM, King Achilles.

Urs

Koganosi

Not asking for a punishment or anything. I just had an argument with some friends about this weather it s acceptable or not. My point being that it is accepted in their backyard, it s not something accepted by the vast majority of the CC players.
So here I am.. Asking for opinions!

betiko wrote:Not asking for a punishment or anything. I just had an argument with some friends about this weather it s acceptable or not. My point being that it is accepted in their backyard, it s not something accepted by the vast majority of the CC players.
So here I am.. Asking for opinions!

My opinion is that it is a very unsportsmanlike way to play. Its a loophole in the system and should not be exploited. I realise not everyone will agree with this but that's just my opinion.

universalchiro wrote:GET THE ROPE!! HANG 'EM HIGH!! LOL nah just kidding. Letting time expire is part of the game. Most of the time it bites ya in the buttocks, here is a rare benefit of "ran out of time".

Besides, there are loopholes here, there, everywhere. What's one more among some excellent individuals. But nonetheless, I feel your pain. For you planned according and had things fall into your favor, and felt justified to reap such a benefit. And if I were in your shoes, I might probably be feeling the same way as you.

One time in a triples game, my team had a stack of 40+ troops, which red player forted the entire stack in the wrong direction. Which just happened to be on our teammates green region that he was scheduled to Nuke. When I woke up in the morning and saw what these two night owls did, nuking our entire and only 40+ stack, I said What the Fred happened? When I pieced the puzzle together, I asked green. Why in the heck didn't you just miss your turn three times in a row, at least the troops would be used for defense and after three misses the entire stack would go back to red, Which then red could select other cards to use for Nuking. Total Newbie maneuver and cost us the game. Ack!

No offense meant but I would also consider that move to be unsportsmanlike. IMO that would be intentional deadbeating to gain an advantage... definitely not right to me. For that situation its a simple thing of someone screws up, you accept the consequences of that screw up.

I think it's legit.

If I'm not wrong, this will soon stop as you should now always get a card if you don't end turn after conquering a territory (only if the game is sequential); it became a submitted suggestion.

Unfortunately submitted does not mean accepted.

Personally I foe people doing so... but I won't be able to foe the one from your game obviously

betiko wrote: It s not allowed to miss 3 turns on purpose to give your troops+regions to a teammate thanks to that 3 miss elimination. There s been a lot of abuse with the hive map in team games and it s been ruled out ever since.
When i m in that situation, i just know i can t move, i can just stack and wait for the right moment to make a huge raid when the timing is right.

And sure you can t fort, but you are leaving your stack on a region you have the card for, that s why you miss the spoil in the first place. I ve done it in the past, and people foed me and got mad for that. I stopped doing it and I think that very few people do it now.
I m ok if it s ruled in when the game starts.. But it sure changes strategies and you can t just pull out such move in the middle of a game where obviously no one has been doing it..

Oh didn't know that was illegal. Wow good to know. Thanks brother!

This is not against the rules, therefore does not break any rule!
It is not a loophole!
Nukes, are not the only time this strategy can be useful (used), you might want to attack (for what ever reason) and not collect a card (for what ever reason).

Example: Not wanting to turn in a set right away, not to become a target for elimination (if you have no cards..hardy makes it worthwhile for somebody to try and take you out).
Lag can prevent you from ending your turn.
On a speed game (non nuke), when somebody runs out of time and does not collect a card, you become ecstatic!

You get upset when somebody Deliberately runs out of time in a nuke game...only in a nuke game would it upset you. Most the time you would not even notice if I guy did not collect a card (much less care).

Collecting spoils is a choice.

Just another facet of the game.
If this was risk I would agree with you. This is CC not risk
Would it be so hard (incomprehensible) for you to use it to your advantage (the way it was meant to be played)?

Assimilate; this is the way CC wants it...use it.
Get into the Game, Put some strategy into this game, don't take it away.
It can be useful to all who use it.

I usually forget or don't even bother...Nuke may of my own units.

Does not bother me if others use it.
I could see it being a little underhanded if not for the fact that you are giving up a card.

I think it's within current rules but not sportsmanlike.
I would never do it, even of opponents did and if I lost the game I'd be ok with that.

IcePack wrote:I think it's within current rules but not sportsmanlike.
I would never do it, even of opponents did and if I lost the game I'd be ok with that.

Fact is, it is sometimes unavoidable (lag and the like).
Who (other than you) is going to know the diff?

a questionable but valid strategy....all this talk about loophole exploitation... change the rules.. something isn't against the rules until it's against the rules... I understand why some (many) don't like it, but oh well...

Gweeedo wrote:This is not against the rules, therefore does not break any rule!
It is not a loophole!
Nukes, are not the only time this strategy can be useful (used), you might want to attack (for what ever reason) and not collect a card (for what ever reason).

Example: Not wanting to turn in a set right away, not to become a target for elimination (if you have no cards..hardy makes it worthwhile for somebody to try and take you out).
Lag can prevent you from ending your turn.
On a speed game (non nuke), when somebody runs out of time and does not collect a card, you become ecstatic!

You get upset when somebody Deliberately runs out of time in a nuke game...only in a nuke game would it upset you. Most the time you would not even notice if I guy did not collect a card (much less care).

Collecting spoils is a choice.

Just another facet of the game.
If this was risk I would agree with you. This is CC not risk
Would it be so hard (incomprehensible) for you to use it to your advantage (the way it was meant to be played)?

Assimilate; this is the way CC wants it...use it.
Get into the Game, Put some strategy into this game, don't take it away.
It can be useful to all who use it.

I usually forget or don't even bother...Nuke may of my own units.

Does not bother me if others use it.
I could see it being a little underhanded if not for the fact that you are giving up a card.

I m interested to know the opinion of people who know what we re talking about, not to hear bozo the clown "teaching" me nukes strategy and explaining me what is actually removing strategy to the game, what is intended/ a loophole with such accuracy

But that was cute..

rhp 1 wrote:a questionable but valid strategy....all this talk about loophole exploitation... change the rules.. something isn't against the rules until it's against the rules... I understand why some (many) don't like it, but oh well...

The point here is that it s not something accepted from my understanding. Most players would trash you if you do something like this. This is a gentleman agreement. Like not letting your opponent the the time to take a snap in a team fog game (even if this snap example is not as bad as the other).
Note that freestyle is a whole different story. Missing in freestyle is not necessarily intentional.. And given the essence of freestyle i don t consider missing a spoil in this game mode is against the spirit of the game.

Betiko...."bozo the clown"

I agree with the gentlemans agreement, like being able to snap in fog. I intentionally join tournaments game as late as possible (and last) so I see the map and allow my opponent tgeir chance to see as well. The auto tournaments kind of piss me off as I have had more than one Bozo take a turn in a fog game ASAP in the fog games while leaving the sunny ones for later...these shady characters are probably the ones voting yes in your poll here.

@betiko, I understand why you feel the way that you do (about Nuke spoils), I really doubt that you feel this same way with spoils in general.

There is no fuss when somebody runs out of time and receives no spoil in a escalating or flat rate game.
Let us say that CC put it in writing (in the rule book). What now?

The Rule is there, it is as plain as day...now will you play according to the rules and permit others to do so.
Is there any other rule that you don't like, and refuse to employ...foeing others who do employ it.
Running out of time (on purpose) has it's advantages...does not have to be the 5th card to be
advantageous.
Why should anybody feel that a player is forced to nuke himself?
Makes no sense!
Spoils are suppose to help you...not hurt you...players have a choice.

Some players might not use this in a non-tournament game...but will use all options in tournament games.
Out of all the foul game play that is being utilized against you...would this be the least.

You perceive (and many others) this as, against the rules...where did you get this?
A person does not need an excuse to use this rule!

Slim chance CC will nullify this option (make it against the rules).
You are losing the Game

I think not taking a spoil in nuke is cheating plain and simple. It might not be technically against the rules but it should be. I hate nuke games and rarely play them and think they should be done away with. Last time I played kept getting territories I owned got to 5 and had 4 of 5 had to nuke myself on all 3 cards and I was losing. Had a few games where I had multiple 2 of 3 nuke myself turn ins. Bullshit game where you have to screw yourself bad enough the dice can do it for you. Now had I played like some wouldn't have had that problem.

It's a total dick move

betiko wrote:Not asking for a punishment or anything. I just had an argument with some friends about this weather it s acceptable or not. My point being that it is accepted in their backyard, it s not something accepted by the vast majority of the CC players.
So here I am.. Asking for opinions!

How's the weather with you and your friends?

Dick move or not, only a fool would put himself in a situation to were he is nuking himself.

I'll skip every time to avoid nuking myself.

Also, what if you're down to 1 territ and you are holding the card that takes yourself out of the game? Then what you kill yourself to prevent someone from thinking you're a dick? I say f*ck that shit!

demonfork wrote:Also, what if you're down to 1 territ and you are holding the card that takes yourself out of the game? Then what you kill yourself to prevent someone from thinking you're a dick? I say f*ck that shit!

Regarding the situation in the op the case you describe is impossible... He speaks about timing out after you conquer a territ, so after you conquer a territ you can't have only 1....

And otherwise if you are in that case, except missing turn... but that would also make you lose so.... yes kill yourself at least if it is terminator no one got your points (right?)