Conquer Club

If there is one game mode that has to be declared the most stupid and frustrating of all game modes on this site, the award goes to trench!

It all comes down to certain turns where you have a clear troop/position advantage and you miss something completely against the odds, lose your bonus/make your opponent s bonus unreachable then it all goes south. Not only do you know you ve lost, but you have to go through the humiliation of helping your oponent to kill you in the minimum amount of rounds cause no forfeit is permitted.

I feel like trench frustrates in a whole different way, really in the worse way this site can offer. It is very rare to see someone accept to finish a trench speeder and not deadbeat.

Mod edit: Changed title of thread

betiko wrote:If there is one game mode that has to be declared the most stupid and frustrating of all game modes on this site, the award goes to trench!

It all comes down to certain turns where you have a clear troop/position advantage and you miss something completely against the odds, lose your bonus/make your opponent s bonus unreachable then it all goes south. Not only do you know you ve lost, but you have to go through the humiliation of helping your oponent to kill you in the minimum amount of rounds cause no forfeit is permitted.

I feel like trench frustrates in a whole different way, really in the worse way this site can offer. It is very rare to see someone accept to finish a trench speeder and not deadbeat.

Nit sure whst ur issue here is? I agree... trench on most settings is generally lame... though most who play have no issues with u db... anyone who plays it at all realizes this is the best way to finish a game... a forfeit button on trench settings wouldn't be the worst idea though

*move to suggestions*

With many maps, it comes down to settings. With some settings, it comes down to maps.

Victory conditions, reasonable ones. I play Nap EU for example. When game is really over, it's over in three(ish) rounds, unless your oppo is green on map. And seriously, non-trench maps can require clean up time too.

Sure, when a trench game on a less complex map gets a bad drop it's ten times worse than a non-trench game on same map... but, look to my first sentence. Just like all maps arn't suitable for all settings, trench isn't suitable for all maps, in all game formats.
Personally I've found Manual very interesting, and adjacent a brother in arms of Trench.

Don't hate the player, hate the game. Actually, don't hate the game either, re-think your whole approach.

<3 Trench

i really tend to fail those tipical rolls 6v2 and such that hold my bonus in trench, or fail to break my enemies bonus in 14v9 and so many situations like this. those rolls make you win/lose the game in a very very very frustrating way, much worse than on trench games in my opinion. you might be outdeploying your oponent for many rounds; have great strategic positions and he just rolls all he wants, 13v22 and such while you are totally unable to roll a 17v15. I ve had dozens of these games lately; and not only you get the candy out of your mouth but you have to sit and wait turn after turn for your enemy to finish you once you know there is absolutely no way to come back.

i think the seuggestion has been made to make a forfeit button just for trench games... but i think it can be abused the same. In that case, maybe missed turns in trench shouldn't be counted or something..

but yes, for example i often play das schloss trench; and my god it's a pain in the ass to finish once the battle is decided. 10 rounds or so to reach the top right objective... completely endless and totally understandable to deadbeat it..

betiko wrote:If there is one game mode that has to be declared the most stupid and frustrating of all game modes on this site, the award goes to trench!

It all comes down to certain turns where you have a clear troop/position advantage and you miss something completely against the odds, lose your bonus/make your opponent s bonus unreachable then it all goes south. Not only do you know you ve lost, but you have to go through the humiliation of helping your oponent to kill you in the minimum amount of rounds cause no forfeit is permitted.

I feel like trench frustrates in a whole different way, really in the worse way this site can offer. It is very rare to see someone accept to finish a trench speeder and not deadbeat.

Why on earth would you play speed on trench?

Trench is a thinking man's game. You calmly and cautiously build up your bonus, and actually can appreciate the features of the map.

Speed is for young men high on testosterone who are in a big hurry. It's a completely different game. Playing speed trench is like mixing amphetamines with heroin... and there's quite a few bodies at the morgue that will testify to what a stupid idea that is.

Trench also doesn't go well with Escalating or Nuclear Spoils. I like Escalating, but again, it's a different nature of game entirely. Escalating is a mathematician's game, and it's again different from the other two. For best results, play Trench with Flat or No Spoils, and put in a round limit in case you develop a case of the jams.

betiko wrote:i really tend to fail those tipical rolls 6v2 and such that hold my bonus in trench, or fail to break my enemies bonus in 14v9 and so many situations like this. those rolls make you win/lose the game in a very very very frustrating way, much worse than on trench games in my opinion. you might be outdeploying your oponent for many rounds; have great strategic positions and he just rolls all he wants, 13v22 and such while you are totally unable to roll a 17v15. I ve had dozens of these games lately; and not only you get the candy out of your mouth but you have to sit and wait turn after turn for your enemy to finish you once you know there is absolutely no way to come back.

See, this is why I love Trench. In a non-trench game, one player gets a lucky roll and runs the board. In trench, that lucky roll is good for literally one battle, then everyone stops, takes an assessment of the board, and continues playing. You are always given a chance to think and develop your strategy, and recover from bad drops and rolls.

Dukasaur wrote:

betiko wrote:If there is one game mode that has to be declared the most stupid and frustrating of all game modes on this site, the award goes to trench!

It all comes down to certain turns where you have a clear troop/position advantage and you miss something completely against the odds, lose your bonus/make your opponent s bonus unreachable then it all goes south. Not only do you know you ve lost, but you have to go through the humiliation of helping your oponent to kill you in the minimum amount of rounds cause no forfeit is permitted.

I feel like trench frustrates in a whole different way, really in the worse way this site can offer. It is very rare to see someone accept to finish a trench speeder and not deadbeat.

Why on earth would you play speed on trench?

Trench is a thinking man's game. You calmly and cautiously build up your bonus, and actually can appreciate the features of the map.

Speed is for young men high on testosterone who are in a big hurry. It's a completely different game. Playing speed trench is like mixing amphetamines with heroin... and there's quite a few bodies at the morgue that will testify to what a stupid idea that is.

Trench also doesn't go well with Escalating or Nuclear Spoils. I like Escalating, but again, it's a different nature of game entirely. Escalating is a mathematician's game, and it's again different from the other two. For best results, play Trench with Flat or No Spoils, and put in a round limit in case you develop a case of the jams.

crazy talk.... trench doesn't require that much more thought than any other setting... in fact, in many ways, it requires less as options on game play are limited... deploys are really the only substantial difference (and this phase isn't rocket science either), after that? pretty brainless....

now... if you want to make it interesting?

doubles, Trench, auto, fog, no forts, freestyle, speed... play these well? then you're showing me something... hell, even trench freestyle unlimmy is fun as hell...

SuicidalSnowman wrote:

betiko wrote:i really tend to fail those tipical rolls 6v2 and such that hold my bonus in trench, or fail to break my enemies bonus in 14v9 and so many situations like this. those rolls make you win/lose the game in a very very very frustrating way, much worse than on trench games in my opinion. you might be outdeploying your oponent for many rounds; have great strategic positions and he just rolls all he wants, 13v22 and such while you are totally unable to roll a 17v15. I ve had dozens of these games lately; and not only you get the candy out of your mouth but you have to sit and wait turn after turn for your enemy to finish you once you know there is absolutely no way to come back.

See, this is why I love Trench. In a non-trench game, one player gets a lucky roll and runs the board. In trench, that lucky roll is good for literally one battle, then everyone stops, takes an assessment of the board, and continues playing. You are always given a chance to think and develop your strategy, and recover from bad drops and rolls.

Humm nope! In none trench you can always come back in multi singles or 1v1 if there are some spoils involved. In trench, the enemy keeps advancing and you cannot come back.

rhp 1 wrote:

Dukasaur wrote:

betiko wrote:If there is one game mode that has to be declared the most stupid and frustrating of all game modes on this site, the award goes to trench!

It all comes down to certain turns where you have a clear troop/position advantage and you miss something completely against the odds, lose your bonus/make your opponent s bonus unreachable then it all goes south. Not only do you know you ve lost, but you have to go through the humiliation of helping your oponent to kill you in the minimum amount of rounds cause no forfeit is permitted.

I feel like trench frustrates in a whole different way, really in the worse way this site can offer. It is very rare to see someone accept to finish a trench speeder and not deadbeat.

Why on earth would you play speed on trench?

Trench is a thinking man's game. You calmly and cautiously build up your bonus, and actually can appreciate the features of the map.

Speed is for young men high on testosterone who are in a big hurry. It's a completely different game. Playing speed trench is like mixing amphetamines with heroin... and there's quite a few bodies at the morgue that will testify to what a stupid idea that is.

Trench also doesn't go well with Escalating or Nuclear Spoils. I like Escalating, but again, it's a different nature of game entirely. Escalating is a mathematician's game, and it's again different from the other two. For best results, play Trench with Flat or No Spoils, and put in a round limit in case you develop a case of the jams.

crazy talk.... trench doesn't require that much more thought than any other setting... in fact, in many ways, it requires less as options on game play are limited... deploys are really the only substantial difference (and this phase isn't rocket science either), after that? pretty brainless....

now... if you want to make it interesting?

doubles, Trench, auto, fog, no forts, freestyle, speed... play these well? then you're showing me something... hell, even trench freestyle unlimmy is fun as hell...

Yeah tons of extremely wrong statements there duka. One of the very shocking ones is to say that trench and nuclear don t marry perfectly?? Come on, it s the only way you have to break some bonuses and have the opponent give you some slack. Best spoils for trench actually, I have played it tons of times.
Escalating, well depends, not very interresting in 1v1 but in multi singles it s great to rebalance a game outrageously dominated by a player.
And trench doesn t mix with speed games seriously? A lot of thinking involved? Please! What is there to think with such limited choices? 3 minutes turns is waaaay more than enough. If you know the map with the settings you don t even need to think, you know what strategic regions you need to take before/from the opponent, easy as this.
And yes, escalating multisingles is probably the mode that requires the most thinking, but you think throughout your opponent s turns as well so it can easily be played in 2 min turns.

city mogul trench 1v1 is so, so painful. especially when you keep forgetting it's trench

Betiko, this makes a change from the "THE DICE FUCKING SUCK" threads in here. Made me giggle.

But you're right, it can be a pain in the butt to have to finish off a game knowing that you've lost, but this is also the case with large maps on no trench,no spoils.

I agree with betiko. Trench blows big hairy donkey nuts.

danryan wrote:I agree with betiko. Trench blows big hairy donkey nuts.

Would it be better if the donkey waxed?

Trench has its uses. Mainly to piss off those with small attention spans(myself included in this category a lot of the time). Playing trench speed is like asking someone to dip their hand in lime juice, rock salt, and chilli oil, then fist you.

I ♥ trench.

Trench is by far my favorite setting. Slows the game down and that is good for my aging brain. But yes, once you are too far behind in a escalating trench game it can just be a loooong miserable wait until the axe mercifully falls. I would love to see a quit button for trench games as they can go on just way too long once the game has already been decided.

Trench is great for some settings. 1on1 on antartica with trench makes the game a lot more about strategy and eliminates most of the luck involved.

BoganGod wrote:

danryan wrote:I agree with betiko. Trench blows big hairy donkey nuts.

Would it be better if the donkey waxed?

Trench has its uses. Mainly to piss off those with small attention spans(myself included in this category a lot of the time). Playing trench speed is like asking someone to dip their hand in lime juice, rock salt, and chilli oil, then fist you.

no bogane
first dip your hand in chilli oil, than rock salt and finaly lime juice
thats a big difference
but u can use first limeoil, rocksalt and finaly chilli juice
or u use handcuffs, and tickle your ass with a feather, thats a killer

SuicidalSnowman wrote:

betiko wrote:i really tend to fail those tipical rolls 6v2 and such that hold my bonus in trench, or fail to break my enemies bonus in 14v9 and so many situations like this. those rolls make you win/lose the game in a very very very frustrating way, much worse than on trench games in my opinion. you might be outdeploying your oponent for many rounds; have great strategic positions and he just rolls all he wants, 13v22 and such while you are totally unable to roll a 17v15. I ve had dozens of these games lately; and not only you get the candy out of your mouth but you have to sit and wait turn after turn for your enemy to finish you once you know there is absolutely no way to come back.

See, this is why I love Trench. In a non-trench game, one player gets a lucky roll and runs the board. In trench, that lucky roll is good for literally one battle, then everyone stops, takes an assessment of the board, and continues playing. You are always given a chance to think and develop your strategy, and recover from bad drops and rolls.

Right! In trench a good move does not win the game (as it should be). In trench you need to develop a full strategy planning ahead many turns, and develop that strategy over the course of the game. Trench is a lot more strategic.

To counter the thread title: trench is the only reason I did not leave this site.

vonraider wrote:Trench is by far my favorite setting. Slows the game down and that is good for my aging brain. But yes, once you are too far behind in a escalating trench game it can just be a loooong miserable wait until the axe mercifully falls. I would love to see a quit button for trench games as they can go on just way too long once the game has already been decided.

I made a suggestion for a domination victory, but people complained saying something like "I don't like it" and "it's different to what we have now".

AslanTheKing wrote:

BoganGod wrote:

danryan wrote:I agree with betiko. Trench blows big hairy donkey nuts.

Would it be better if the donkey waxed?

Trench has its uses. Mainly to piss off those with small attention spans(myself included in this category a lot of the time). Playing trench speed is like asking someone to dip their hand in lime juice, rock salt, and chilli oil, then fist you.

no bogane
first dip your hand in chilli oil, than rock salt and finaly lime juice
thats a big difference
but u can use first limeoil, rocksalt and finaly chilli juice
or u use handcuffs, and tickle your ass with a feather, thats a killer

Of course you are correct my learned friend. Dipping your hand in the oil first allows the salt and lime juice to be suspended in the oil, thus allowing for better diffusion of product/irritants.

OliverFA wrote:

SuicidalSnowman wrote:

betiko wrote:i really tend to fail those tipical rolls 6v2 and such that hold my bonus in trench, or fail to break my enemies bonus in 14v9 and so many situations like this. those rolls make you win/lose the game in a very very very frustrating way, much worse than on trench games in my opinion. you might be outdeploying your oponent for many rounds; have great strategic positions and he just rolls all he wants, 13v22 and such while you are totally unable to roll a 17v15. I ve had dozens of these games lately; and not only you get the candy out of your mouth but you have to sit and wait turn after turn for your enemy to finish you once you know there is absolutely no way to come back.

See, this is why I love Trench. In a non-trench game, one player gets a lucky roll and runs the board. In trench, that lucky roll is good for literally one battle, then everyone stops, takes an assessment of the board, and continues playing. You are always given a chance to think and develop your strategy, and recover from bad drops and rolls.

Right! In trench a good move does not win the game (as it should be). In trench you need to develop a full strategy planning ahead many turns, and develop that strategy over the course of the game. Trench is a lot more strategic.

To counter the thread title: trench is the only reason I did not leave this site.

not to be combative, but I really don't get this... "develop a full strategy?"

how is trench complicated? hit everything for max deploy, don't expose stacks until you have what you deem to be a decisive advantage, and control choke points... literally takes about 2 seconds per turn to decide what needs to be done on your turn, if that.... someone help me out with this.. speak to me as if I'm a child, cause I'm missing something...

Me too! Trench is King/queen!

rhp 1 wrote:

OliverFA wrote:

SuicidalSnowman wrote:

betiko wrote:i really tend to fail those tipical rolls 6v2 and such that hold my bonus in trench, or fail to break my enemies bonus in 14v9 and so many situations like this. those rolls make you win/lose the game in a very very very frustrating way, much worse than on trench games in my opinion. you might be outdeploying your oponent for many rounds; have great strategic positions and he just rolls all he wants, 13v22 and such while you are totally unable to roll a 17v15. I ve had dozens of these games lately; and not only you get the candy out of your mouth but you have to sit and wait turn after turn for your enemy to finish you once you know there is absolutely no way to come back.

See, this is why I love Trench. In a non-trench game, one player gets a lucky roll and runs the board. In trench, that lucky roll is good for literally one battle, then everyone stops, takes an assessment of the board, and continues playing. You are always given a chance to think and develop your strategy, and recover from bad drops and rolls.

Right! In trench a good move does not win the game (as it should be). In trench you need to develop a full strategy planning ahead many turns, and develop that strategy over the course of the game. Trench is a lot more strategic.

To counter the thread title: trench is the only reason I did not leave this site.

not to be combative, but I really don't get this... "develop a full strategy?"

how is trench complicated? hit everything for max deploy, don't expose stacks until you have what you deem to be a decisive advantage, and control choke points... literally takes about 2 seconds per turn to decide what needs to be done on your turn, if that.... someone help me out with this.. speak to me as if I'm a child, cause I'm missing something...

Yes and no. Why hold a chokepoint protecting your area when you can hold an enemy's chokepoint into your territory?
Why do that when you can also hold one outside that?

Trench, from what I have played of it, is about positioning to take a bonus in as few turns as possible without doing a balanced crawl as most people in trench, or compared to an all out attack from one territory in normal.

It just adds elements to the game, which can be refreshing.

rhp 1 wrote:not to be combative, but I really don't get this... "develop a full strategy?"

how is trench complicated? hit everything for max deploy, don't expose stacks until you have what you deem to be a decisive advantage, and control choke points... literally takes about 2 seconds per turn to decide what needs to be done on your turn, if that.... someone help me out with this.. speak to me as if I'm a child, cause I'm missing something...

No problem. Is great to have a friendly debate about this

In trench you can decide what to do next turn, or you can develop a whole strategy for the next turns. Your strategy can be rushing for that bonus, or anything else that gives you that advantadge you speak about. But because troops don't blitz, strategies do realy develop. And because trench is what some people call "slow" a well developed strategy gets rewarded. You can even try to make it look like you are doing a different thing and then go for the real objective.

Also, diplomacy becomes possible, because truces really help both players even if they know that truce has to end some day.

About the choke point. Well, that's another of the beauties of trench. It is not compulsory to always hold the choke points. Sometimes those choke points can be abandoned in favour of a more important danger, like when you push to end a player soon and during that time you allow your other border to be conquered, or when you are facing several enemies and decide if you are going to defend against all or just against some of them. In some maps big enough, you can even practice the "Deep defense" that the USSR used against nazis in WW2.

And about being the player with biggest income, that can work in some cases, but not in all of them. Because this is trench, you have time to defend against that big force and to look for a bonus on your own.

I always define an strategy at the start of a trench game. Of course this strategy can change if things change, but most times it really helps me.

I don't know which setting you play with trench, but I recommend Sunny with chained reinforcements. Unlimited reinforcements is too powerful (despite it makes spliting your enemies land a very important move) and adjacent is too limited, but chained is the perfect combination. One reinforcement in your torn, able to reach everywhere, which becomes an important choice. As for spoils, no spoils or flat spoils if you want to introduce some unpredictability to the game.

We can always play a game to see how our arguments translate into the battlefield