Conquer Club

Can't find anything on the site to answer this question:

A tourney allows the second placed player in a standard game to prgroess to the next round. A player makes no reasonable attempt to win their game and instead protects the leader in the game and hopes to by eliminated last (no SD).

This is benefiting from deliberately throwing a game but

Is this cheating?


I have been told the tourney objectives make it okay but I cant find anything on the site to back it up.

The goal of a tournament game is to win the tournament. The scoring/advancing system determines who wins while the games serve as a means to that end. Player are not forced to play to win every single game in a tournament because sometimes that does not provide the best opportunity to advance in and win the tournament.

Yes but in rules the is a section called 'unwritten rules' which states:
"This includes but is not limited to: throwing games or deliberately benefiting from thrown games"

I was putting the question out there to see if somebody could point to a written rule or even a decision precendent which supercedes this.

sundance123 wrote:Yes but in rules the is a section called 'unwritten rules' which states:
"This includes but is not limited to: throwing games or deliberately benefiting from thrown games"

I was putting the question out there to see if somebody could point to a written rule or even a decision precendent which supercedes this.

Considering the Tournament Commisioner tells you so, should supercede it.

sundance123 wrote:Yes but in rules the is a section called 'unwritten rules' which states:
"This includes but is not limited to: throwing games or deliberately benefiting from thrown games"

I was putting the question out there to see if somebody could point to a written rule or even a decision precendent which supercedes this.

Protecting yourself isn't gross abuse of the game. It's strategy to win a tournament.

Also, I'd listen to Night Strike. He's taught me several things in my stay here.

Well I am beat - looks like I have found the most uncontentious issue.


Pisses me off though

sundance123 wrote:Well I am beat - looks like I have found the most uncontentious issue.


Pisses me off though

you could have used diplomacy and appealled to the largest player's sense of fair play to take you through to the next round

Night Strike wrote:The goal of a tournament game is to win the tournament. The scoring/advancing system determines who wins while the games serve as a means to that end. Player are not forced to play to win every single game in a tournament because sometimes that does not provide the best opportunity to advance in and win the tournament.

In that case, I think those tournament games should be unrated games, not counting towards the CC points system.

sundance123 wrote:Yes but in rules the is a section called 'unwritten rules' which states:
"This includes but is not limited to: throwing games or deliberately benefiting from thrown games"

I was putting the question out there to see if somebody could point to a written rule or even a decision precendent which supercedes this.

It's not really a thrown game if it benefits you in some way. Throwing a game would be giving up for no apparent reason.

Dukasaur wrote:

sundance123 wrote:Yes but in rules the is a section called 'unwritten rules' which states:
"This includes but is not limited to: throwing games or deliberately benefiting from thrown games"

I was putting the question out there to see if somebody could point to a written rule or even a decision precendent which supercedes this.

It's not really a thrown game if it benefits you in some way. Throwing a game would be giving up for no apparent reason.

I agree. "A player making no reasonable attempt to win their game" isn't the same as "a player deliberately throwing a game". Especially not if it gives him the chance to advance in the tournament.

Lx
Ex Tournament Director

pickleofdoom wrote:

Night Strike wrote:The goal of a tournament game is to win the tournament. The scoring/advancing system determines who wins while the games serve as a means to that end. Player are not forced to play to win every single game in a tournament because sometimes that does not provide the best opportunity to advance in and win the tournament.

In that case, I think those tournament games should be unrated games, not counting towards the CC points system.

Not going to happen. All CC games count for points, regardless of where or how they're played.

Night Strike wrote:

pickleofdoom wrote:

Night Strike wrote:The goal of a tournament game is to win the tournament. The scoring/advancing system determines who wins while the games serve as a means to that end. Player are not forced to play to win every single game in a tournament because sometimes that does not provide the best opportunity to advance in and win the tournament.

In that case, I think those tournament games should be unrated games, not counting towards the CC points system.

Not going to happen. All CC games count for points, regardless of where or how they're played.

other certain players who only play tournament games will never go up ranks

I have a relatively low rank mainly because i play a lot of people's in tournaments with settings that I can win on, but do not really give my knowledge an huge advantage as my rank over them. I loose enough points as it is though...
Still, i never purposly lost a game to advance in a tournament, but i still consider it a valid tactic.

It's important to read the rules in a tournament you enter. For example, when I enter a tournament that features multiple games with points awarded for order of finish on each one, I keep track of points myself to plan strategy in other games based on the standings.

That may mean attacking the overall leader in a game to better your spot. It's all about the ultimate goal of winning the tournament. That's what makes tournaments more fun than public games, in my opinion and why I try to make my rules pretty simple and pretty clear in tournaments I run.

kuma32478 wrote: It's all about the ultimate goal of winning the tournament. That's what makes tournaments more fun than public games, in my opinion and why I try to make my rules pretty simple and pretty clear in tournaments I run.

No for me CC is about winning the game you are playing - it says it in the rules.
Anything else is cheating.

there is a difference between playing smart and cheating. Many players have tried to win by cheating and got banned, some players try to win(a tournament) by making sure their strongest opponents do not make it to the cut.

Night Strike wrote:Not going to happen. All CC games count for points, regardless of where or how they're played.

All CC games had no round limit util a couple of days ago. Miracles can happen.

pickleofdoom wrote:

Night Strike wrote:Not going to happen. All CC games count for points, regardless of where or how they're played.

All CC games had no round limit util a couple of days ago. Miracles can happen.

but the rounds limit does not affect the fact that you still loose points when you hit the limit.. so basic its a forced ending.. so night strike is striking home and true again

sundance123 wrote:

kuma32478 wrote: It's all about the ultimate goal of winning the tournament. That's what makes tournaments more fun than public games, in my opinion and why I try to make my rules pretty simple and pretty clear in tournaments I run.

No for me CC is about winning the game you are playing - it says it in the rules.
Anything else is cheating.

If it were cheating, it would be against the rules and punished.

Night Strike wrote:
If it were cheating, it would be against the rules and punished.

Touche!

SirSebstar wrote:

pickleofdoom wrote:

Night Strike wrote:Not going to happen. All CC games count for points, regardless of where or how they're played.

All CC games had no round limit util a couple of days ago. Miracles can happen.

but the rounds limit does not affect the fact that you still loose points when you hit the limit.. so basic its a forced ending.. so night strike is striking home and true again

?

I was using the round limit as an example to show that logically you cant just say something is not going to happen just because the game doesnt currently allow it. The rules are sometimes changed. It was implicit in my first post that I think CC should be updated to allow this posibility for tournament directors.

I am not sure what point you are making.

updates are not really miracles. There are no plans to make games with no pointloss/gain, in fact this is most strongly disavowed. I'd prefer not too much ambiguity in the Q&A
Also, maybe if you quote the reply, it might be wise to quote the question as well.
The point here is that its legal(with certain exceptions, like taking out the wrong target in some assassin tourny's) to go for a tourny win, even if you might loose a game because of your actions. Night Strike replied further to the next question whether these should or should not count for cc points. You's mirracles happen give the wrong idea. it is as it is, games count for points. It is that simple.

kuma32478 wrote:It's important to read the rules in a tournament you enter. For example, when I enter a tournament that features multiple games with points awarded for order of finish on each one, I keep track of points myself to plan strategy in other games based on the standings.

That may mean attacking the overall leader in a game to better your spot. It's all about the ultimate goal of winning the tournament. That's what makes tournaments more fun than public games, in my opinion and why I try to make my rules pretty simple and pretty clear in tournaments I run.

i suspected that is what you were doing in our last tournament

The game alone corrects cheating, so if he get 50 points now, with cheating, every lost game from now on will cost him 1 point more(for example)... so overall anyone who cheats will have to cheat on regular basis(and that is easily discoverable), or he can be very inventive and to cheat on differently.