Conquer Club

What map on CC requires the least amount of luck?

City Mogul.. Huge troop numbers

City Mogul was created to limit the luck factor. Huge maps usually depend less on luck than small maps. Luck of drop isn´t involved on conquer maps like AOR.

jammyjames wrote:City Mogul.. Huge troop numbers

LOL?

jammyjames wrote:City Mogul.. Huge troop numbers

If you play freestyle speed, it is all skill very little luck

If you play sequential, who goes first wins.

40kguy wrote:

jammyjames wrote:City Mogul.. Huge troop numbers

If you play freestyle speed, it is all skill very little luck

If you play sequential, who goes first wins.

freestyle speed is 25% skill 75% speed

all you need is some strategy and insane speed.

caymanmew wrote:

40kguy wrote:

jammyjames wrote:City Mogul.. Huge troop numbers

If you play freestyle speed, it is all skill very little luck

If you play sequential, who goes first wins.

freestyle speed is 25% skill 75% speed

all you need is some strategy and insane speed.

He didn't say speed freestyle or not. Even then, speed fs isn't all about speed.

-rd

Yes he did. It's even in your quote.

Seulessliathan wrote:City Mogul was created to limit the luck factor. Huge maps usually depend less on luck than small maps. Luck of drop isn´t involved on conquer maps like AOR.

yer thats not true at all...
drop is fairly impotant on aor

i play several time frestule, and its all abouth speed,or if you manage to play very fast 2 round in row, no skill in fresstule,just speed and speed in play.
No frestule games its much better to show skill.

qwert wrote:i play several time frestule, and its all abouth speed,or if you manage to play very fast 2 round in row, no skill in fresstule,just speed and speed in play.
No frestule games its much better to show skill.

freestyle shows thinking on your feet

when ever i play 8 player games people might go for an elimination and you have maybe 2 seconds to react.

natty_dread wrote:Yes he did. It's even in your quote.

oops, my bad.

-rd

Believe it or not, I think Japan is a very fair map. I don't usually see lopsided drops and if the dice are unkind early, it is a good map to mount a comeback on because of its set up.

small maps with nuclear spoils can make for some really long competitive games--1v1

jleonnn wrote:What map on CC requires the least amount of luck?

For what? 1 vs. 1 games, or just in general?

Master Fenrir wrote:

jleonnn wrote:What map on CC requires the least amount of luck?

For what? 1 vs. 1 games, or just in general?

Germany is a good map for 1vs1 games, and I think it is pretty luck-neutral, though there are probably a few better ones out there.


--Andy

AndyDufresne wrote:

Master Fenrir wrote:

jleonnn wrote:What map on CC requires the least amount of luck?

For what? 1 vs. 1 games, or just in general?

Germany is a good map for 1vs1 games, and I think it is pretty luck-neutral, though there are probably a few better ones out there.

It may be drop-neutral, but it certainly isn't luck-neutral.
If both players can play a map equally well, then it's ALL luck... and Germany is an easy map to play.

I think that the most luck-neutral map is the one that requires the most strategy to win, and the one that is most difficult to master.

Think about it; if a Das Schloss specialist plays someone that rarely plays Das Schloss, he has a decent chance of winning, even if he gets worse luck. Meanwhile, if a Germany specialist plays someone that rarely plays Germany, he will hardly ever win if he gets worse luck.

40kguy wrote:

qwert wrote:i play several time frestule, and its all abouth speed,or if you manage to play very fast 2 round in row, no skill in fresstule,just speed and speed in play.
No frestule games its much better to show skill.

freestyle shows thinking on your feet

when ever i play 8 player games people might go for an elimination and you have maybe 2 seconds to react.

So then it's how fast your internet connection is vs the opposition to see who can react the fastest?

Freestyle, I don't see how speed doesn't play a role. And speed doesn't equal skill.

I'd say a conquest style map requires the least amount of skill, feudal epic probably being the "fairest" conquest map in my opinion.

safariguy5 wrote: And speed doesn't equal skill.

heh, it also doesn't equal luck... so I guess you could make a case that speed freestyle involves the least amount of luck, but not the most amount of skill.

Commander62890 wrote:

AndyDufresne wrote:

Master Fenrir wrote:

jleonnn wrote:What map on CC requires the least amount of luck?

For what? 1 vs. 1 games, or just in general?

Germany is a good map for 1vs1 games, and I think it is pretty luck-neutral, though there are probably a few better ones out there.

It may be drop-neutral, but it certainly isn't luck-neutral.
If both players can play a map equally well, then it's ALL luck... and Germany is an easy map to play.

I think that the most luck-neutral map is the one that requires the most strategy to win, and the one that is most difficult to master.

Think about it; if a Das Schloss specialist plays someone that rarely plays Das Schloss, he has a decent chance of winning, even if he gets worse luck. Meanwhile, if a Germany specialist plays someone that rarely plays Germany, he will hardly ever win if he gets worse luck.

So in your mind, enhanced strategy (outside of normal game mechanics?) = luck neutral?


--Andy

AndyDufresne wrote:So in your mind, enhanced strategy (outside of normal game mechanics?) = luck neutral?

Whether he agrees or not, I do agree with this. Skill only comes into play when luck is approximately equal on both sides at the appropriate times on a map. Someone who gets all the "good dice" early on on most maps is likely to beat the player whose dice are disgusting for the first several rounds.

Thus, the maps that require the least amount of luck are maps where a player with "bad luck" for several of the early rounds is less likely to be overwhelmed by the other player's "good luck," in early rounds; which means maps where bonuses are small and there are many ways to hit important targets.

For this reason, maps like Stalingrad require the least amount of luck. On Stalingrad, players rarely take large bonuses and most regions can be assaulted or bombarded from several regions around the board, which means a variety of strategies can be employed to compensate for less-than-nice dice, and the player is likely to keep at least a few of those high-reach regions for long enough to make a difference when the luck turns back. However, if the drop and dice variance are too great (meaning, if luck is TOO one-sided) then even the best strategy will not compensate for getting 1's and 2's v. the opponent's 5's and 6's for "too many rounds in a row."

If two players are very good and both know the map well, then the main influences upon the game will be drop and dice.

However, if one player does not know a certain map (or setting) well, he or she is more liable to make a mistake.
This means that the player who wins will often have won due to superior strategy, not luck.

On small, simple maps, the person who wins will more often have won due to luck than on large, complex maps.

Commander62890 wrote:If two players are very good and both know the map well, then the main influences upon the game will be drop and dice.

However, if one player does not know a certain map (or setting) well, he or she is more liable to make a mistake.
This means that the player who wins will often have won due to superior strategy, not luck.

On small, simple maps, the person who wins will more often have won due to luck than on large, complex maps.

That depends on whether or not we're talking about 1v1. On a large map 1v1, the person with the first turn generally can take 3 or more regions from the other person, reducing their opponent's region bonus by 1 or more. Over the course of a game, this usually means the person who went first wins. Hive being an extreme example, but maps like Waterloo also tend to favor the player who goes first.

safariguy5 wrote:On a large map 1v1, the person with the first turn generally can take 3 or more regions from the other person, reducing their opponent's region bonus by 1 or more. Over the course of a game, this usually means the person who went first wins. Hive being an extreme example, but maps like Waterloo also tend to favor the player who goes first.

True... I think 17 would be ideal for a 1v1.

Reducing the impact of the drop is indeed a major factor in reducing the "amount of luck" on a map.

Commander62890 wrote:

safariguy5 wrote:On a large map 1v1, the person with the first turn generally can take 3 or more regions from the other person, reducing their opponent's region bonus by 1 or more. Over the course of a game, this usually means the person who went first wins. Hive being an extreme example, but maps like Waterloo also tend to favor the player who goes first.

True... I think 17 would be ideal for a 1v1.

Reducing the impact of the drop is indeed a major factor in reducing the "amount of luck" on a map.

leading back to my original point of city mogul. Zero need for dice on that map, based a whole lot more on strategy