counter cheater alliance

[ahchin]

hey guys, post the cheating methods you have come across and help to post the counter measure.

below is 1 of the example. i called it "time out cheat."



check out the highlighted red box. i wonder what have i done wrong when countering them? i did exactly the same as him but i never wait till my 24 hours clock to finish soon before i make my move. so my time out dont entitled me the chance of going first for the next round.

any1 any suggestion to counter this move?

[ahchin]

1 thing i like about this game, u guys can go into the game 288921 to verify the truth and not a make up story. the log is open for all to see.

[Master Bush]

That's not cheating? That's using the rules of the game in your favor.

[ahchin]

That's not cheating? That's using the rules of the game in your favor.

oic.. which rules? both of us ran out of time. but i am not granted the first start for next round.. please teach me how they can do that? and imagine every1 playing the same way is there anymore fun?

[flashleg8]

I never play freestyle anymore, its just a recipe for people cheating you.
Stay on the sequential if you don't like these types of shenanigans.

[Master Bush]

If you go back and look, yellow was the last player to end his turn in round 3, and JR did not end his turn. Which meant that his team was not the last team to "end" that round.

Round 5 on the other hand, was also yellow who ended this turn last. You just ran out of time. No team can "end" their turn, then take the next turn in the following round.

If the other team ended their turn, then you can go, just run out of time, and then start the next round, because you did not "end" the last round.

That's the rules, and they used them. Not cheating at all.

[luckiekevin]

just don't play freestyle

[Master Bush]

just don't play freestyle

Sound advice.

[ahchin]

If you go back and look, yellow was the last player to end his turn in round 3, and JR did not end his turn. Which meant that his team was not the last team to "end" that round.

Round 5 on the other hand, was also yellow who ended this turn last. You just ran out of time. No team can "end" their turn, then take the next turn in the following round.

If the other team ended their turn, then you can go, just run out of time, and then start the next round, because you did not "end" the last round.

That's the rules, and they used them. Not cheating at all.

noted. thanks for the advice. if i was to be the first for round 5. my team mate cant be the last of round 4. the person who last drawn a card is consider the person with the last move? ok admin please update the instructions book about this rules mention so that every1 is clear that this is not a cheat, but an adventage granted to players who exploit it.

[ahchin]

just don't play freestyle

yea, no more freestyle for me. we are clean player. LOL

[reverend_kyle]

I taught johnny that

[detlef]

Freestyle is lame. Strategy is replaced by silly angles like this. And heaven forbid your connection should be slow for whatever reason.

[SirSebstar]

well its the main reason why i dont do freestyle, cause its doing me. As far as strategy goes, its quite lame since there is no risk involved. But hey, in risk and war anything (legal) is allowed....

therefor, its a feature, not a bug...Live with it(till it changes)

[Joep the 2nd]

freestyle rocks if you pay attention

[detlef]

freestyle rocks if you pay attention

Well so does Doom or Madden 07 but neither of those are risk either.

[joystickgenie]

If you go back and look, yellow was the last player to end his turn in round 3, and JR did not end his turn. Which meant that his team was not the last team to "end" that round.

Round 5 on the other hand, was also yellow who ended this turn last. You just ran out of time. No team can "end" their turn, then take the next turn in the following round.

If the other team ended their turn, then you can go, just run out of time, and then start the next round, because you did not "end" the last round.

That's the rules, and they used them. Not cheating at all.

noted. thanks for the advice. if i was to be the first for round 5. my team mate cant be the last of round 4. the person who last drawn a card is consider the person with the last move? ok admin please update the instructions book about this rules mention so that every1 is clear that this is not a cheat, but an adventage granted to players who exploit it.

So does that mean that if I end my turn legitly by clicking end attacks and end fortifications but I don’t receive a card (either because I didn’t conquer a nation or we are playing without cards) I should be able to start the next round? Because I don’t think that’s the way it works.

Also is here anyplace where a moderator or anyone with actually authority of what is actually a rule of play on this site said that this is a valid move and not just an exploit of the system? Or is it just players saying “hey if I can do it, it is legal”?

I agree that if this is actually a legal move and valid “strategy” it should be added to the rules in the FAQ or instructions and should be made consistent between legitly ending your turn and letting the timer end the turn for you.

[ahchin]

not sure man. but if most of the people agree to this move. i think its legal. so if u r as noob as me. just dont play free style.

i enjoy playing it with a few people until this incident. this move ruin the game. anyway its just a game why stress. just sit back relax and join the next game.

[alster]

hey guys, post the cheating methods you have come across and help to post the counter measure.

below is 1 of the example. i called it "time out cheat."

Dude.

Two things:

1. It's not cheating. (As has been pointed out by many before me in this thread.)

2. And it's called "de facto double turns."

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2549&start=0

Defined as:

A de facto double turn can be made in a non-sequential, no double turn game. By waiting until the very last minute of the 24 hour period before you make your move, you start the game with 5 minutes to go or so. Make your moves and either end your turn or let the time run out. Then, when the 5 minutes have passed the game engine recognizes that the other team or other players have not moved and then kicks in the next round opening up the game for all players (including the player who started the game just before the end of the last round). It's primarily used in team plays or in standard games when only two players are left.

What is it with new players these days? Back in the days when I joined CC, it was customary to go through the general threads before making a post... Ahhh... those were the days.

Anyways. Don't mess with my trend-setting definition...

[alster]

So does that mean that if I end my turn legitly by clicking end attacks and end fortifications but I don’t receive a card (either because I didn’t conquer a nation or we are playing without cards) I should be able to start the next round? Because I don’t think that’s the way it works.

Also is here anyplace where a moderator or anyone with actually authority of what is actually a rule of play on this site said that this is a valid move and not just an exploit of the system? Or is it just players saying “hey if I can do it, it is legal”?

1. The card thing is the reason why the move most profitably is made in no card games. But also you can use it if you know you'll have a good territorial bonus coming up. That outweighs the loss of a card.

2. There are two rules of play. Rule 1 and Rule 2. Read them and learn them. That's the authority you need. Then, if you wish to exploit the game engine, please go ahead. It's perfectly fine.

[alster]

Well, now I got all nostalgic here.

Let me tell you new guys here a beautiful little story. Back in the days when you still created games with 4 digit game numbers, there was this beautiful glitch in the game engine. Then, when playing team freestyle games, the game engine only registered individuals, not teams. So, if your teammate was the last one to make a move, you were eligible yourself to start the next round. That allowed a team to take 4 moves in a row.

I can tell you this much: Me, Cmeb and Eye84 skimmed off a shitload of points using that tactic. What we did was basically starting up dozens and dozens of freestyle doubles, waiting 23 hours, then going on msn and closing the games in round 1 and 2 using double moves. Unfortunately that glitch one day vanished into the air, leaving us with a few dozen of freestyle games on our hands… Still, all in all it was a beautiful experience.

[joystickgenie]

2. And it's called "de facto double turns."

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2549&start=0

That thread really doesn’t help support the idea that this is a legit maneuver when 73% of the people who voted said they were not ok with it.

[alster]

That thread really doesn’t help support the idea that this is a legit maneuver when 73% of the people who voted said they were not ok with it.

I never said that the thread in question supported any notions of legitimate or illegitimate.

Also: it’s interesting that you use the word “legitimate”. The de facto double turn is clearly perfectly allowed according to the game rules. Whether it’s legitimate or not can be more of a perceptive issue, whether or not people in general find the behavior acceptable. But, that’s an academic issue since people will use it now and then anyway.

[joystickgenie]

The de facto double turn is clearly perfectly allowed according to the game rules.

That’s a fallacious argument. Just because it’s not in the rules does not mean that it is perfectly allowed. It's true that there is no rule against it but it is clearly against the notion of eliminating double turns.

This kinda reminds me of the Simpsons

Lisa: “By your logic, I could claim that this rock keeps tigers away.”
Homer: “Hmm; how does it work?”
Lisa: “It doesn’t work; it’s just a stupid rock!”
Homer: “Uh-huh.”
Lisa: “... but I don’t see any tigers around, do you?”
Homer: “Lisa, I want to buy your rock...”

Just because it’s not against the two rules that are posted does not mean that it is supported.

[tahitiwahini]

A de facto double turn can be made in a non-sequential, no double turn game. By waiting until the very last minute of the 24 hour period before you make your move, you start the game with 5 minutes to go or so. Make your moves and either end your turn or let the time run out. Then, when the 5 minutes have passed the game engine recognizes that the other team or other players have not moved and then kicks in the next round opening up the game for all players (including the player who started the game just before the end of the last round). It's primarily used in team plays or in standard games when only two players are left.

Personally I hate this thing about the game engine since it removes the strategic element from the game (that is also why I never play double turns are allowed games). However, it's used now and then and I find it very hypocritic that people who think that this is a perfectly fine tactic to use since the game engine allows it have condemned me for some limited use of the deadbeating option. Particularly since I have once (and will again if possible) used the deadbeating option when team 2 used this move between round 2 and 3 of a tripple game in order to get the upper hand. If used properly, the de facto double turn move decides a game. And it's disgusting since it violates the idea of the no double turn option.

from http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=36021

Whatever one believes about the legality of the de facto double turn it's pretty clear that it involves purposely delaying your turn. Deadbeating very definitely involves delaying your turn, to the point where you time out. Might I suggest that players who want to play a game where players take their turns as soon as they can out of some bizarre notion of courtesy, might want to look elsewhere for a suitable opponent. On the other hand, if you're looking for a time-waster look no further...

[Akrasia]

yeah it defeats the spirit of the game.

There is no time limit for taking your moves in a normal risk board game either, so according to the logic of some people here, it would be perfectly ok if I took 12 hours to take my go thus pissing off all the other players so they stop playing leaving me the de-facto winner.

What a fun game that would be.

It's pretty sad that so many people feel compelled to cheat in a computer game and then justify it by saying 'it's not my fault if other people aren't sad enough to cheat too. (hint, if everyone cheated, the games would become unplayable and nobody would get any benefit)