Conquer Club

I'm not going to complain about the dice as I feel they are fine they way they are. I just have a question as to why they can't be completely randomized rather than pulling from the string. I'm not a programming expert by any means but if we can utilize a true random generator for which map is used when "Random" map is selected, why can't the same logic be used to kick back a number 1-6 on five dice in one roll? Would it just slow everything down too much to do it this way?

Again, this is NOT a dice complaining thread as I am fine with they way they are but just wondering why we can use a Random system for map selection but not dice rolls. Just curious.

patrickaa317 wrote:I'm not going to complain about the dice as I feel they are fine they way they are. I just have a question as to why they can't be completely randomized rather than pulling from the string. I'm not a programming expert by any means but if we can utilize a true random generator for which map is used when "Random" map is selected, why can't the same logic be used to kick back a number 1-6 on five dice in one roll? Would it just slow everything down too much to do it this way?

Again, this is NOT a dice complaining thread as I am fine with they way they are but just wondering why we can use a Random system for map selection but not dice rolls. Just curious.

I don't know the real answer, but I strongly suspect that the "Random map" selection is a pseudo-random, rather than a real random...it's just that nobody cares about it enough to the level that everyone does (and rightly so) about the dice.

Woodruff wrote:

patrickaa317 wrote:I'm not going to complain about the dice as I feel they are fine they way they are. I just have a question as to why they can't be completely randomized rather than pulling from the string. I'm not a programming expert by any means but if we can utilize a true random generator for which map is used when "Random" map is selected, why can't the same logic be used to kick back a number 1-6 on five dice in one roll? Would it just slow everything down too much to do it this way?

Again, this is NOT a dice complaining thread as I am fine with they way they are but just wondering why we can use a Random system for map selection but not dice rolls. Just curious.

I don't know the real answer, but I strongly suspect that the "Random map" selection is a pseudo-random, rather than a real random...it's just that nobody cares about it enough to the level that everyone does (and rightly so) about the dice.

I'll take that for now but if anyone does have the "real" answer, please let me know.

I suggest you research the various dice threads for an awnser to this question with regard to the dice.
With regard to the randomness of the random maps, ill get back to you..

Implementing a true random generator is impossible, most programming languages have pseudo random generators (the randomness between implementations differs). What some lotteries and random.org do is to generate the numbers from some process in real life that is considered to be truly random (atmospheric noice in the case of random.org). So it's just seems like a simple problem, but it isn't simple.

patrickaa317 wrote:I'm not going to complain about the dice as I feel they are fine they way they are. I just have a question as to why they can't be completely randomized rather than pulling from the string. I'm not a programming expert by any means but if we can utilize a true random generator for which map is used when "Random" map is selected, why can't the same logic be used to kick back a number 1-6 on five dice in one roll? Would it just slow everything down too much to do it this way?

Again, this is NOT a dice complaining thread as I am fine with they way they are but just wondering why we can use a Random system for map selection but not dice rolls. Just curious.

they cant be randomized, because no human made machine is randomized.

Thanks for all the answers. It's interesting to know that Random map isn't true random, which answers my question.

if you ever find a computerprogram that is truely random, then let us know.

I'm not a programming guy by any means..

Can someone explain to me in VERY simple terms the difference is between "truly random" and however random or non-random the dice are?

from the wiki:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_number_generation

Several computational methods for random number generation exist, but often fall short of the goal of true randomness — though they may meet, with varying success, some of the statistical tests for randomness intended to measure how unpredictable their results are (that is, to what degree their patterns are discernible).

in short, because in theory it is possible to predict or discern patterns. That is why CC uses random.org. They use no computer generated numbers, but atmosferic static, hence a bit more unpredictiable and more random..

does that clear it up a bit?

I think so..

Would it be like if you "randomly" took like 5 digits of pi and said it was random? I mean it is random, but not really random..

well with pi you could do that, but how do you pick the 5 spots? Also, Pi is very strwaky, but not predictable, as in we don't know where it ends.. at all