Conquer Club

What is it that makes the top players the top players? We all know that experiance and raw talent have SOMETHING to do with it, but what is it that they have learned that we have not?

That is what this topic is here for. I would like to invite all the players who are over or around the 1800 point make to share some advice that they think younger more inexperianced players would benefit from.

We all know that experiance is the best teacher, but why not give us a game or two to look at and learn from?

Anyone can post with something they have learned, but I would like to ask the higher ranked players to post in praticular. If you have a question post it! But try and remain on topic (ask about stratagy and tactics).

Remember this is for eveyone here on CC! We al want to be better players and this is one place to look for that kind of information.

Team games are the way to go...play with one or two people with the same settings and even map if you want....and learn...after a while it will become second nature....thats just the easiest way to do it, not the only way to do it

if you are really bad....ask a top player to take you under his wing....listen to every move he/she tells you to make.....at the end of it, you will just know how to play

The strategies of the top ten players are all fairly different actually....most have their own preferences and styles of games that they play and strategies they use...

The more you play one type the better you will get at it, and the less mistakes you will make....if you join 50 doubles games...you will barely have to think about it as you go on...assuming you are learning from them, and not just playing the same way in every one

this is the safest, most direct way to just get points

each one of the top players would give you individual advice on how to play, because they play different types...not to say that they cant all play all types well, its just you get used to the strategy you are used to, so you tend to stick with it

and every one of them has a distinct style....I cant always predict what they are going to do, but im not often surprised by it either...knowing that can help you in a game....some are very aggressive...and others will sit back almost till the game is over and wait for the last possible moment to strike...some prefer position and taking it over slowly, and others focus very quickly on eliminating a player

Ive played them all, some extensively...the most important advice they will give, is to think a few moves in advance...at least....play fairly and respectfully....Most of the top players are also the most patient i have played with...this isnt a coincidence...its the reason for their success...they make no enemies, and can work with almost anyone as a partner, because they are patient and friendly

my score doesnt quite meet your criterion here, but i did just lose about 700 points...so i know how to win them, and lose them

why is this a poll?

anyway, i would agree with everything AA said. but i would also say that unless you think about why you lost, you won't improve.

AA knows what he is talking about and I think nailed it bang on....there isnt one "set strategy" which all the top people use other than patience in different forms. I was fortunate enough for Dugcarr to show me the ropes and since then havent ever looked back as I climb through the rankings. I would like to say however that not all styles gell well as teammates ( hey AAfitz?....sorry buddy)

I think that patience is what all the top people share....!!

Sub

Patience.....and know why you have lost a game. After, during study the game..try to learn from your mistakes.

okay sure, I can give a little input...

If you think Strategically, but play Tactically you will win many games

And know well that an accurate stratagem is more important than precise strategy.

And if this doesn't make sense, it's really okay if you'll just realise, the glass is half full

seriously though, for the top 40 it's all about spending hours hacking into the random number generators, but my secret is also hacking into the cards... I mean think about it, have you ever wondered why the best players in the game always have 1 more card than you!

If I may add a couple of points I feel are important...

one, really try to avoid stupid mistakes. I know that sounds basic, but if you're vigilant, you can avoid doing something dumb. Basically, double-check everything until it becomes second nature.

two, use your armies wisely. Every attack must have a point, and every time you go into battle you must have beforehand considered the potential outcomes, good and bad. Never attack for no reason. Armies are precious, and over the course of the game you're only going to be getting so many of them. And getting a card is not a good enough reason to risk running all your armies into the ground, unless the situation is desperate.

rgr that Incandenza. for example: it's not worth it to lose 30 armies to get that 5th card in a flat rate game.
If it's escalating and the card would net you 200 units the next turn and you would definitely survive until then it's a little different though.

And pay attention so you don't hand the game to another player because you thought it would be nice to hold 4 continents or something like that. If another player has more than half the armies on the map after you've finished attacking it was NOT a good plan.
Unfortunately that happens all too often, it's incredibly frustrating to lose the game because someone else made a mistake you saw coming a mile off and avoided yourself.

Sometimes you have to allow other players to keep continents. Especially in early 3 player games. You have to keep things balanced until you can get ahead of the others.





And I agree with subjekt, patience is important, so what if a game lasts 80 rounds or more? If you decide that it's boooring if a game takes more than a dozen rounds go play escalating and stay away from flat rate and no cards. And at least don't suicide on one single person before you leave the game for good. Suiciding equally on everyone is not nice, but at least acceptable, and can change the situation enough for the game to become interesting again.

You shouldnt play this game to get points. That is as simple as that.

But if you do..... In singles. DOnt mak yourself a threat before you can be one. Hide your strenght.

I began my run up the top with playing 3 players game. My tactis was easy. Attach the best player and the worst player will screw his game by him self.
AAfits and JR learned this a time or two....

And Robinette: Teach me! I only get red cards in flat rate and mixed sets in esc. So please teach me!

there are times when talent and experience aren't worth a rusty dime.
times when your oponent hit only straight 6s and when he gets mixed sets and all you get is red ones. but in the majority of times i found out that studying your oponents really pays off.
a weak tactician will allways go with the same strategy.

i've played a lot of risk (real cardboard game) and seen people that always start in australia and then simply stay and wait to build troops. or start in south america and advance towards north am. spending a few minutes to read game logs really helps and in time you'll learn some players and know their style.

now there are a few player types that you meet in different games:

agressor: he starts attacking everyone from the start expands quickly and in most cases dies quickly. he never pays attention to fortification and goes for the big bonus.

carefull builder: he conquers one by one and fortifies all his territories with 2-3 troops (porcupine defence). he has high chances of surviving to the finish and it's a tough nut to crack but he lacks courage and this is why he sometimes misses the chance to close a game.

the observer: gets a continent and gradually fortifies it. he only attacks for cards (if there are cards) he's very patient and keeps an eye out for any weak victims to finish them off. he does not venture far from his continent and that's his weak point because others my become too strong and wipe him.

the bonus breaker: it's easy he runs around the map breaking bonuses. without troop support from an owned continent he is a quick kill. this tactic goes nicely if you have a well fortified continent because you keep getting the bonus while the others don't.

the evasionist: he always avoids conflicts. he gets a continent stays for a while and quickly moves if a threat comes near. also an easy target. all this moving around bleeds his armies dry and he's eventually killed.

the unpredictable guy: you never know what he's up to. he might attack or he might run, he might come after you or go for another. the toughest one to kill if he knows what he's doing.

there's also the deadbeat and the village idiot (this one attacks 3 vs100, is not concerned about getting a continent or breaking a bonus, he basically does only stupid things.)


becoming great is not an easy task and some people will never get there because they lack basic qualities like patience intelligence or luck.
but if you have a certain degree of inteligence, if you strategize, plan carefully assume risk only when needed and analyze your oponents you're halfway there, the other half is playing doubles games


and one more thing. psichology. this one really helps. force the others to do what you want. for example in a game we were 3 players and 2 of us had a continent. i had a small 2 army bonus and the other a nice 5 army bonus. the third player was the weakest. i had the oportunity to exchange cards and break the bonus but i noticed the weak player also had enough cards to exchange. it's simple logic. i attack and break the other guy's bonus and weaken both armies and the the small guy exchanges cards and kicks us both. what i did was forget the exchange and attack a 1 army territory (to get the card) and then i fortified myself even more at the border with the other strong guy leaving the other border rather poorly defended (just 3 troops i think). the weak one exchanged and broke the other one's bonus weakening both. exactly as i had hoped.
there are plenty of situations when you can force somebody to do your work and they won't even realize it. but sometimes they won't get the hint and this tactic might work against you. so think twice.

juventino wrote:You shouldnt play this game to get points. That is as simple as that.

But if you do..... In singles. DOnt mak yourself a threat before you can be one. Hide your strenght.

I began my run up the top with playing 3 players game. My tactis was easy. Attach the best player and the worst player will screw his game by him self.
AAfits and JR learned this a time or two....

And Robinette: Teach me! I only get red cards in flat rate and mixed sets in esc. So please teach me!

Yeah, Juve might actually be the best noob hunter on here...never seen anything like it....for one thing...he makes sure hes so nice no one wants to attack him...and he really did sit in the corner...just forcing the noob to attack the other guy....or themselves if there were two of them.

in one of the games with him...the noob was acting so crazy, i actually Pmed him to assure him i wasnt working with him...the guy just wouldnt attack me...then he over compensated at the end, and the rest was history...

with noobs hiding your strength is key...with higher ranked players...its harder to do, because they all have greasemonkey...so you can really only hope to fool them into thinking your not going to attack them

i don't play many team games and wen i do its usually private with my clan against other high rankers. i hav gained virtually all my points playing singles.

We have gained some great insight to why and how these players make it to the top.

One thing I love about CC is that everyone has a different knack. My standard record is better than my team record, but I like having a partner to discuss the choices with and gain from his insights.

We all bring something unique to the table.

I really liked these catagories: (posted by DiM)

agressor: he starts attacking everyone from the start expands quickly and in most cases dies quickly. he never pays attention to fortification and goes for the big bonus.

carefull builder: he conquers one by one and fortifies all his territories with 2-3 troops (porcupine defence). he has high chances of surviving to the finish and it's a tough nut to crack but he lacks courage and this is why he sometimes misses the chance to close a game.

the observer: gets a continent and gradually fortifies it. he only attacks for cards (if there are cards) he's very patient and keeps an eye out for any weak victims to finish them off. he does not venture far from his continent and that's his weak point because others my become too strong and wipe him.

the bonus breaker: it's easy he runs around the map breaking bonuses. without troop support from an owned continent he is a quick kill. this tactic goes nicely if you have a well fortified continent because you keep getting the bonus while the others don't.

the evasionist: he always avoids conflicts. he gets a continent stays for a while and quickly moves if a threat comes near. also an easy target. all this moving around bleeds his armies dry and he's eventually killed.

the unpredictable guy: you never know what he's up to. he might attack or he might run, he might come after you or go for another. the toughest one to kill if he knows what he's doing.

there's also the deadbeat and the village idiot (this one attacks 3 vs100, is not concerned about getting a continent or breaking a bonus, he basically does only stupid things.)


I think the questions are now how do you personally prefer to deal with the above mentioned players? Which is your favorite position to play from? Why do you choose that? (feel free to be map specific)

I want this thread to be up building and encouraging, especially to new players. All your insights have been GREAT so far! Keep up the good posting!

I have one question.
Someone know the procent for atacker and defender in a normal roll(3v2)?
x%(for atacker -> 2-0) + y%(for 1v1) +z%(for defender -> 0-2)=100%

Thanks!

Ya Attacker has a SLIGHT advantage. I don't know the exact number but it is small.

Asclepio wrote:I have one question.
Someone know the procent for atacker and defender in a normal roll(3v2)?
x%(for atacker -> 2-0) + y%(for 1v1) +z%(for defender -> 0-2)=100%

Thanks!

x=37.17%
y=33.58%
z=29.26%

i'll be back later ith comments on playr type tactics.

I will put in a plug for the Dice Analyzer (found in the Plug-In thread at top of this forum). It will give you the expected results, which was the subject of the question, but also the actual results you receive in your games.

i am the...observer

i always go 4 aus no matter about the drop and turn it into my nuclier bunker with a large amount of armys on siam...and then some 1 gets cards and i die

australia is a nice point to start but only if you keep expanding and quickly get and secure asia. if you remain only with ustralia you're dead.

I have never tried to secure Asia with Australia. I always head for Africa or Europe! That is just me!

It seems to me like using the same strategy for every game is pretty much always likely to get you dead. Any strategy may work for a little while, but I would bet that the best players modify their strategies pretty heavily for the individual game. Is that so? Or do you (the top players) have personal strategies that you stick to?

it depends on the oponents. against weak ones you can play very predictable and still beat them while against good ones you have to give your best shot change the plans and improvise according to the situation.

Colossus wrote:It seems to me like using the same strategy for every game is pretty much always likely to get you dead. Any strategy may work for a little while, but I would bet that the best players modify their strategies pretty heavily for the individual game. Is that so? Or do you (the top players) have personal strategies that you stick to?

Strategy always has to be tailored to the situation. Sometimes your drop will dictate how you're going to move thru the game (i.e. your drop gives you the majority of a small continent, or maybe your drop is horrendous, either way).

Plus your opponents will sometimes dictate your moves. I know I play differently against elite players (who all know what they're doing) than I do against lower-ranked players (who may know what they're doing, or may not).

And you can't just dive for oceania every time. If you get a lot of it from your drop, then go ahead and take it. But if you engage in a massive bloodletting with another player (or god forbid, several other players) for control of the continent, another guy on the other side of the map will bide his time and then scoop you poor bastards up. Control of oceania does not guarantee victory.

Incandenza wrote:

Colossus wrote:It seems to me like using the same strategy for every game is pretty much always likely to get you dead. Any strategy may work for a little while, but I would bet that the best players modify their strategies pretty heavily for the individual game. Is that so? Or do you (the top players) have personal strategies that you stick to?

Strategy always has to be tailored to the situation. Sometimes your drop will dictate how you're going to move thru the game (i.e. your drop gives you the majority of a small continent, or maybe your drop is horrendous, either way).

Plus your opponents will sometimes dictate your moves. I know I play differently against elite players (who all know what they're doing) than I do against lower-ranked players (who may know what they're doing, or may not).

And you can't just dive for oceania every time. If you get a lot of it from your drop, then go ahead and take it. But if you engage in a massive bloodletting with another player (or god forbid, several other players) for control of the continent, another guy on the other side of the map will bide his time and then scoop you poor bastards up. Control of oceania does not guarantee victory.

I was in a RT where that happened just today. I wasn't in Oceania, but EVERYONE else but Scott and I was. Scott grabbed S. America, I couldn't take Africa, and the game is looking bleak. Sometimes you can't convince even good players to see what's right in front of them. Not that it is their fault, because scott has played well. Great card jumps and strong positioning!

Robinette wrote:seriously though, for the top 40 it's all about spending hours hacking into the random number generators, but my secret is also hacking into the cards... I mean think about it, have you ever wondered why the best players in the game always have 1 more card than you!

um...ok then