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Misher's Guide to Dice and CONQUER CLUB

Postby misher on Tue Oct 12, 2010 11:51 am

Ver 1.1--Updated to 1.2(1v1 guide added at bottom)
About me: Ok I became a major by like my 200th game and I've been playing CC on and off for about 4 years, and thus here are some of my thoughts and musings. I'm hoping to have actual statistics to back them up soon but first I'll see the success of my musings.

Attacking: Basically pretty much NEVER click auto atk unless you are fighting with a couple hundred+ troops or your okay with losing all your men, more often than not CC likes to stack 2 troop losses thus if your attacking a place with 10 troops and theres 2 defending, you can easily get 3-2 losses in a row. However in the same respect if you atk and you get a 2 win, immediately atk again cause your likely to get another 2 win, or a 1-1 draw. I find that I keep atking until I get a 2 loss, then I go somewhere and do something for a few mins, then come back. Do not atk after youve had a 2 loss or you'll get slaughtered by the dice. I don't have an exact time to wait for the next atk, but I suggest somewhere above 20 seconds. I also suggest taking places that are defended by only 1 man, why? Because when you atk those places its 3 dice to 1, your much more likely to win and whats even better, you don't lose anyone when you take the place, your man stays guarding the place and 3 of those places=1 more troop a turn :D Again if you lose to 1 man don't immediately atk again, Ive had 1 man win 8 times in a row before when I auto atked, if you lose to 1 man wait the 20 secs or you might just lose another. I've found that most streaks stop at 4, so if you want wait the 20 secs after you've won 4, but to be honest I just keep going cause I'm damn happy with 4 and don't care if I lose 1 :D

Defending: Honestly having 1 man on every place is a recipe for disaster. I suggest 2-3 on vulnerable 1 man places you don't want your opponent to take easily, most players hate taking places that defend with 2 dice but are defended by 6 or less men since they tend to experience losing streaks quite easily. But they love taking places defended by 1 man because there easy to take and lead to little or no losses. Also I suggest not putting hundreds of men on one place to defend, spread them out! Or better yet ATTACK! If the games 1000 men versus 1000 the auto atk likely will win, cause in the end the probabilities go to the attacker in any large attack. And if he waits for it while attacking and follows my above attacking advice he'll probably end up with about 300-400 leftover when its 1000 versus 1000, but it would take a hell load of time and effort so it'd be rare for a player to take that time.

Anyway to do on this list:
Dice probabilities
Streak info
Additional suggestions from players?

PS: Yeah I hope my opponents don't read this -.- And I find I'm usually too lazy to follow my own advice.

1V1 Guide
Ok 1v1's mostly depend on the settings, im just going to go over the basic standard, flat, seq, unlim, nofog, I played this game: Game 8128766 and won by round 4 even though he got 2/3 of the only bonus that didn't have neutrals in it and got first turn.

What I did-First do my best to keep him from getting country bonus, In this case I had 2 places beside it with 3 men, if he had defense that was even on each side, I would suggest putting 1 on one side, and 2 on the other. This gives you 2-3 chances to break the bonus, if he gets bonus before you do generally its game over. When attacking try your best to always be attacking with 4 men and thus getting a 3-2 or 3-1 roll, this gives u a good shot at winning, as well 2 places with 5 and 4 respectively is better than 1 with 6 in most circumstances.

As well do not reinforce all your men to 1 place (in most circumstances), 1 man places are bloody easy to take, if you can try your best to leave 3-2 on each place. In corners and places where he can't attack though feel free to strip your forces down to 1 to use elsewhere. Remember to always take at least one place to get your card. Almost always AVOID KILLING NEUTRALS, it depletes your forces and not the enemies, as well it opens up places defended by neutrals that otherwise would be for your opponent. Total troop count is a huge thing in 1v1 games, watch it wisely. In large maps/games that extra 1 man a turn can be very useful, especially in games where bonuses cannot be held. Thus do your best to take over his 1 man places, remember when you take a 1 man place your not losing troops, your using 3 dice to his 1 and usually winning, and thus taking his troops out while not decreasing your total count. Remember to leave 2-3 on these 1 troop places if possible. And cards are mostly up to luck but do try your best to wait till you get a multi or blue color set, and try to get the places you have cards for, a 2 troop bonus is quite useful.
Last edited by misher on Sun Dec 12, 2010 10:37 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Misher's Guide to Dice and Lady Luck

Postby drunkmonkey on Tue Oct 12, 2010 2:01 pm

If you cross your toes and pat your head with your left hand while singing "Happy Birthday" backwards, you'll roll 6's at a rate of 0.00247% above the norm.
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Re: Misher's Guide to Dice and Lady Luck

Postby misher on Tue Oct 12, 2010 7:16 pm

Wiped
Last edited by misher on Wed Oct 13, 2010 3:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Misher's Guide to Dice and Lady Luck

Postby drunkmonkey on Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:44 pm

Let me get this straight...you brag about your winning %, then knock me for playing higher-ranked players, while you play cooks and cadets? :lol: :lol: :lol:

If you'll look at my games, you'll notice almost all of them are tournaments, which means I play whoever they tell me to. Hell, look at my MLB tourney, which I've now played over 140 1v1 games against mostly lower ranks.

I'm not sure why you feel the need to prove you're a better player than me. I simply pointed out how ridiculous it is to think rolling faster or slower affects your odds.
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Re: Misher's Guide to Dice and Lady Luck

Postby drunkmonkey on Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:53 pm

Also, most high rank players don't play other high ranks just to preserve score. We do it because we enjoy the challenge of playing with other players of our caliber, as opposed to just cleaning up in public games.
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Re: Misher's Guide to Dice and Lady Luck

Postby misher on Wed Oct 13, 2010 2:30 am

Wiped
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Re: Misher's Guide to Dice and Lady Luck

Postby Streaker on Wed Oct 13, 2010 3:30 am

So, let's get these facts straight.
You think moving afk for awhile is going to have an impact on the 'random' number generator? Why not do a little intensity cube dance while you are at it?

You have played under 400 games, yet you think you know the game?
Another interesting point of logic: What makes you think it took monkey 1.500 games to get to Major? It proves his capabilities as a player to keep at least that rank, while playing any random person on CC in a wide variety of tournament games.

When you have completed a certain number of games, you get to a point where beating up on random people in random games just isn't fun anymore.
Some people quit, others find other (and, in my mind, better) challenges on CC, like playing team and clan games against other very competitive players.

I could rant about this for awhile, yet I think I won't get anywhere with it. I can't stand people who think they are better than others, while they haven't proven anything. A low win %, only playing random games. Very impressive I must say.

Someone disagrees with you, and you go into full offensive against that player in person? Very mature.
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Re: Misher's Guide to Dice and Lady Luck

Postby misher on Wed Oct 13, 2010 3:35 am

Ur right I did get a bit off topic...sorry -.- Gonna go wipe my other posts, if you disagree with me fine, just mash the auto-attack and see how it goes for you. I thought most players would of realized it by now that it fails.
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Re: Misher's Guide to Dice and Lady Luck

Postby Streaker on Wed Oct 13, 2010 3:50 am

misher wrote:Ur right I did get a bit off topic...sorry -.- Gonna go wipe my other posts, if you disagree with me fine, just mash the auto-attack and see how it goes for you. I thought most players would of realized it by now that it fails.


Where did I disagree with you that auto is a bad thing? I only disagree with anything that people think can influence your rolls. Hence the dancing remark.

Autoing should only be used in freestyle when it comes down to speed. Otherwise, you can auto-attack when it's your very last option. This is the part where I do agree with you.

ps: never make important rolls when there is a thunderstorm, that totally has an impact on your rolls
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Re: Misher's Guide to Dice and Lady Luck

Postby codierose on Wed Oct 13, 2010 10:12 am

auto or not the random genny is complete bullshit when i see bullshit dice every day time after time after time no matter how good or bad you strategy is and to think i pay for this bullshit :twisted: :evil: :twisted: :evil:
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Re: Misher's Guide to Dice and Lady Luck

Postby misher on Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:20 am

I think you would be a huge fan of my guide codierose :D And if you while auto atk isn't good for other reasons, you gotta admit that it's supposed randomness loves to stack bad upon bad.
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Re: Misher's Guide to Dice and Lady Luck

Postby drunkmonkey on Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:42 am

I've attacked 73vs95 with auto-attack, and won with 10 left over. The bad thing about auto-attack isn't the "randomness". It's the fact that as you do get bad rolls, your odds of winning the battle change. Rolling one at a time, you can stop once the odds are no longer in your favor. With auto-attack, you're stuck with whatever happens.
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Re: Misher's Guide to Dice and Lady Luck

Postby Metsfanmax on Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:16 pm

drunkmonkey wrote:I've attacked 73vs95 with auto-attack, and won with 10 left over. The bad thing about auto-attack isn't the "randomness". It's the fact that as you do get bad rolls, your odds of winning the battle change. Rolling one at a time, you can stop once the odds are no longer in your favor. With auto-attack, you're stuck with whatever happens.


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Re: Misher's Guide to Dice and Lady Luck

Postby Army of GOD on Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:24 pm

50% of the time, I win auto-attacks all the time.
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Re: Misher's Guide to Dice and Lady Luck

Postby misher on Wed Oct 13, 2010 2:33 pm

Well generally you only attack when you have a bigger force, so your saying only 50% of the time you win auto attacking when you have a numerical advantage?
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Re: Misher's Guide to Dice and Lady Luck

Postby Streaker on Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:13 am

misher wrote:Well generally you only attack when you have a bigger force, so your saying only 50% of the time you win auto attacking when you have a numerical advantage?


Again, I'm not agreeing with you. This statement shows how little experience you have in this game.

Often in team games you will see someone attacking a bigger stack for the simple reason of taking it down a nodge, even if you can't win the entire battle. This limits the bigger stacks options of attacking, and with attacker advantage, you can sometimes win things like 7vs10 or worse.
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Re: Misher's Guide to Dice and Lady Luck

Postby maasman on Thu Oct 14, 2010 7:43 am

Lately I've found auto attack to work better than single attacks. There's only been a handful of times where I lost badly, it's much more common for me to win big.
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Re: Misher's Guide to Dice and Lady Luck

Postby misher on Fri Oct 15, 2010 1:30 am

Yeah I know! I've been doing auto atk lately and its been working better too -.-
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Re: Misher's Guide to Dice and Lady Luck

Postby Haggis_McMutton on Fri Oct 15, 2010 4:35 am

Clearly they changed the engine :lol:

This is actually a pretty good example of how superstitions/myths can get started.
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Re: Misher's Guide to Dice and Lady Luck

Postby gen.ace on Fri Oct 15, 2010 3:41 pm

As a poker player and student of that game, I hear rigged all the time. That is what this thread sounds like about the dice. Like if favors one or the other. If you wait 20 sec.s your chances of rolling the next are the same they were 20 sec.s ago. I understand you don't want to use auto attack because you want to be able to stop attacking at a certain point. But to say that the dice have a pattern is ridiculous. Unless you have hardcore evidence with a big enough sample size, this notion is ridiculous.
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Re: Misher's Guide to Dice and Lady Luck

Postby LultimoImmortale on Fri Oct 15, 2010 5:51 pm

OK - yes, I am superstitious, but for some reason no matter how hard I plan the dice really mess me up. Yes, I have not played thousands of games and I do not have a paid membership, but part of me wonders if, perhaps, people with paid meberships get better dice than those playing for free.

Just wanted to get that off my chest - please proceed to bash me, my opinions, friends, relatives and political leanings.
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Re: Misher's Guide to Dice and Lady Luck

Postby misher on Sat Oct 16, 2010 1:58 am

I got a higher rank than this when I was a freebie. Its only recently I've been paid and I've been losing more..but the dice have been relatively the same. Lol just try playing alot of games and ull get the hang of it.
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Re: Misher's Guide to Dice and Lady Luck

Postby Bruceswar on Sat Oct 16, 2010 6:37 am

Attacking: Basically pretty much NEVER click auto atk <-- I pretty much stopped reading there. I did read the rest just so I could see what you tossed out there.


There are a few good points but for the most part, much of your strategy is not used for many game types. You will not win lots of escalating std games by leaving 3's and 2's everywhere. In fact people will start foeing you if you do it vs other high ranks. In team games this is also something you do not do often. You want the largest attacking force possible most times or defending your bonus. I am really grasping at straws trying to find a game type you would do this in.

Most every top player I have ever ran into auto attacks at one point or another. Some like me use it nearly all the time. It did fine for my rank I think. Also I have played a ton of games, seen a ton of strategies and some even like what you talk about. Those people rarely make it to major or past it. (Luck I assume) The only time leaving a ton of 2's around is good is when you know someone is gonna try to kill you. Only works with unlimited forts or leaving a trail.

As for your thought of waiting vs attacking again... total BS and no facts to back it up. I played 3 games today... with in a 10 minute span... I rolled 0-16 between all 3. On some I autoed and others I slow attacked. I even got a drink in the middle of one. Bad dice happen, as well as good ones. Nothing you can do about them, except plan for them.

A side point: To any freeiums finding it hard to rank up. The key to ranking up in few games is playing larger player games. Terminator works great in a 6 man esc seq since you can get points even if you do not win it all. If you win it all generally walk away with 120 or so depending on your rank.

Please feel free to fire back some thoughts.
Last edited by Bruceswar on Mon Oct 18, 2010 4:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Misher's Guide to Dice and Lady Luck

Postby Commander62890 on Sat Oct 16, 2010 6:59 am

Finally! I was looking for a successful conclusion to this thread.


If you're looking for advice, the above post is all truth :)





Edit: Not to say that this thread is necessarily concluded; it's just that I was waiting for someone to blow the OP out of the water, and Bruce delivered
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Re: Misher's Guide to Dice and Lady Luck

Postby misher on Tue Oct 19, 2010 1:32 am

I've won about 5 games in a row since I wrote this :D About to win 3 more hopefully it'll get me back over 2500, note it's called misher's guide cause it's a guide that shows my views, can you please not bash those views too hard? I've done quite well following them.
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