Conquer Club

Any decent strategies to prevent this? Usually it happens in a 3-way game, and is pretty random as far as who has the advantage. Sometimes I'll be behind, and the low-rank will suicide on me and the other guy will sweep the board, and sometimes I'll be a little ahead and get suicided on. There really doesn't seem to be any pattern.

I guess not playing games with Cooks/Cadets/Privates is a possibility, but that's not much fun...

Anyways, check out all the recent suicides on me!!

Game 7100133 - I hold most of the eastern half of the map, but don't really have an advantage in troop income. Yellow continually attacks one of my chokepoint territories, wasting both of our troops, but completely ignores purple. Purple waits til we're both weak enough, then punches through and wins the game.
Game 7172666 - I hold Chubu and Kanto, Green holds everything to the south, and blue everything to the north. We're all very even in troop levels and income. Blue decides to suicide his stack on me in Chubu, and Green pushes through the weakened section and takes us both out.
Game 7077861 - This one is actually a Sergeant...I guess poor strategy isn't just reserved for the lower ranks. He was dead-set against me holding Braganca...so much so that he completely ignored Orange with his +14 bonus and suicided 17 of his troops on my 15 in Braganca. Orange moves in for the KO.
Game 6765426 - The most recent that brought this rant on. I have a comfortable lead over both purple and red, but not enough to win the game. Red takes a stack of 100 through my territory, leaving himself with 20 left, and now purp has quite a bit of an advantage instead.

Make/join private games. The Callouts forum is your friend.

Standard, Flat Rate games draws cooks and cadets like flies to honey. Expand your horizons into Esc games, or start playing teamgames.
If you like multiplayer non team flatrate games may I suggest switching out standard for terminator? With termiantor there is much less chance of those annoying stalemeates that bring on little suiciders. Kill those little cadets one at a time. Become a terminator.

Restrict yourself to 1v1 games. That way it doesn't make any difference and you never get surprised.

Hm, I'll have to try some of those ideas. I've never tried 1v1 before...I usually enjoy the interaction from having multiple players. I just don't like it when those players choose to take both of us out.

you could try playing with fog of war

Be polite to them and suggest a course at The Society of Cooks. "Train a cook today. Lose to a Sargeant tomorrow." We make killers out of them. Not suiciders. That`s what we do. We learn people how to play well.

I mostly play big 8 player no spoils and flat rate, I usually treat cooks and cadets with undue suspicion. If you share a border with a cook/cadet fortify that border more than you normally would if its fog put stacks behind the choke point. If a nooby player sees you are strong I find they tend to try and expand elsewhere, unlike more experienced players who will pay more attention to you if you start stacking on the border. That's just my experience bear in mind I am no master strategist.

WestWind wrote:Any decent strategies to prevent this? Usually it happens in a 3-way game, and is pretty random as far as who has the advantage. Sometimes I'll be behind, and the low-rank will suicide on me and the other guy will sweep the board, and sometimes I'll be a little ahead and get suicided on. There really doesn't seem to be any pattern.

I guess not playing games with Cooks/Cadets/Privates is a possibility, but that's not much fun...

Anyways, check out all the recent suicides on me!!

Game 7100133 - I hold most of the eastern half of the map, but don't really have an advantage in troop income. Yellow continually attacks one of my chokepoint territories, wasting both of our troops, but completely ignores purple. Purple waits til we're both weak enough, then punches through and wins the game.
Game 7172666 - I hold Chubu and Kanto, Green holds everything to the south, and blue everything to the north. We're all very even in troop levels and income. Blue decides to suicide his stack on me in Chubu, and Green pushes through the weakened section and takes us both out.
Game 7077861 - This one is actually a Sergeant...I guess poor strategy isn't just reserved for the lower ranks. He was dead-set against me holding Braganca...so much so that he completely ignored Orange with his +14 bonus and suicided 17 of his troops on my 15 in Braganca. Orange moves in for the KO.
Game 6765426 - The most recent that brought this rant on. I have a comfortable lead over both purple and red, but not enough to win the game. Red takes a stack of 100 through my territory, leaving himself with 20 left, and now purp has quite a bit of an advantage instead.

Don't play 3player games, they are for little bitches that like to feel powerful, who rant and rave in game chat, trying to get the other two players to attack each other. Think about it, you have almost the same chance of winning a 4player game, and you lose the same amount of points for a loss, but stand to get 33%more points for a win..... As for cooks/cadets/privates suiciding.... I could start a thread about sarg/Lt's that think its a most excellent strategy to suicide anyone colonel or above....... Play foggy maps, that way people can't see as much of you, and you can hide. Use callouts.

Seriously do yourself a favour and give up playing 3player games. They are for muppets and their multis.

Another thought to ponder. One mans suicide is anothers calculated risk.

Good points all around. I don't seek out 3 player games...the problem is that it starts off at 6-8 and then dwindles down to 3

yes this is my most recent experience..

Game 7410093
kind of sucks when you have spent a whole game getting in position and some armhole goes and suicides you.. (cant see what happened in log but you can see in chat i guess)
but plainly spoken i had it all wrapped up and then this cook decides to give it to the next person in line instead.. (he actually could have taken it by himself if he was able to think)
well enough ranting..
i think this thread; viewtopic.php?f=6&t=123227&start=0
might be a good addition to the general discussion in here.. especially this paragraph;

trapyoung wrote:(5) CC needs to enforce the age limit. Maybe that limit is at 15-16, but seriously the five year olds permeating through the threads and speed games has made it both lame and irritating to read the forums or play a speed game. Remember when a high quality speed game could be started within 5 minutes years ago? Not anymore, unless you want to play 8 person assassin on Doodle Earth.

because honestly i think a lot of the problems would vanish if there where some thinking beings on the other side of the monitor..

/

Oh my god, they are such little b_____s. Why won't they lie down and let me grind them into dust at my leisure?

Frankly, because it is boring to lose. It is worse to have to summon the strength to put down three paltry units for a week, with no conqerable territories nearby, waiting on the whim of the stronger players. Suiciding against another player, winning or not, returns a measure of control and perhaps fun because the player has an achievable goal again.

So, yes, you could isolate yourself from the lower ranks, hoping that winners have the discipline to resist the temptation near Act 3. That wouldn't solve the problem though since a cook or the easily bored can join any game that isn't private.

To eliminate the practice, you must answer, "how can I make losing more fun than suiciding and then losing?" I don't know. Unfortunately, Risk, like Monopoly, offers little to the disposessed short of redirecting them to Settlers of Catan. I'll blow some smoke anyway. Perhaps, you could offer the potential threat some tactical suggestions or a nonagression pact in the chat. If ahead and well defended, you could try pulling back from a territory [blasphemy!] to give that player an achievable goal again. Obviously, your competition won't offer mercy; but, should you survive and the target fall into ennui again, your 'kindness' will likely redirect him/er against another opponent.

Or, you could recognize that suicide is a legitimate tactic. If another player in the game cashed in a mixed set and broke your border with the same number of units as a suicider, would you post about it on the forums? Avoid spoils games? Avoid terminator games where a lower rank might 'overextend' against a Captain for the points? Frankly, thinking that an attack without the other player drawing a "benefit" smacks of the apocryphal lament of the British concerning the American insurrectionists: "why won't these cowards stand in a line and trade fire like civilized men?"

I can't imagine.

You cant control how others play.

Ive had many many game plans ruined because of suiciding low ranks. Yes it sucks. Through out my game CC career I have always played in public games. Why play with the same folks over and over to protect somthing that is meaningless?

People suicide either to be vindictive, which you cant control or because they are ignorant. I play escalating and terminator. I cant tell you how many times someone has knocked out a stack of my armies because they got a cash and wanted an area without realizing that they set others besides themselves to take me out for my cards and points.

Long story short....Its a fact of CC life. Suck it up or play online chess. Just play private games.

chipv wrote:Restrict yourself to 1v1 games. That way it doesn't make any difference and you never get surprised.

Amen. I love this site but the three player games seem to always lead to someone wetting their pants. Looking forward to grouping with quality players.

Regardless of rank when you play multiplayer games, there's going to be friction. People are often going to make moves that you don't like. I especially hate the ones that radically disrupt the balance of power in a game. But I've learned that 'mistakes' or il-advised strategies are common and really just a part of the game. I used to get in my fair share of disputes in these games and noticed that 1 v 1 arguments were much less common.

My advice is to keep your peace, accept that such things are going to happen and do your best to come back. Once you argue with someone, even if you're right then other people are still going to be annoyed with you and go after you to some degree. So you hurt your chances to win the game, your ratings go down and you're mad.

Ever since I stopped engaging people over dumb things, I have noticed also that 9 times out of 10 I end up forgetting the dumb move because it was not a big deal. The other 1 time out of 10, I have more perspective and I simply enjoy the game still and do not have to come back to a pissing contest. I suggest this in all seriousness. I did not even look at your game examples because I do practice this philosophy and if I'm not going to get pissed off about my games then I'm not going to get pissed off about your games lol.

Kelavanti wrote:

chipv wrote:Restrict yourself to 1v1 games. That way it doesn't make any difference and you never get surprised.

Amen. I love this site but the three player games seem to always lead to someone wetting their pants. Looking forward to grouping with quality players.

Three player sunny games are the worst!

Had this happen to me today, I created a 3 player fog speed game (3 players because i wanted it to fill quickly), a cook and a cadet joined, the cook had a poor rating and at the beginning started attacking only me for no particular reason (he wasnt trying to steal my continent or getting a bonus for himself, just attacking my stacks and leaving the 1s in the rest of the continent i was trying to take free).

I dont know how to combat this, I decided to do nothing for a few turns, let the cadet (who was actually had good strategy) build a lead so that the cook would stop assaulting me, but that failed

i am finding it difficult to stay alive in terminator games.. i usually get attacked at least twice a round on stacks.. that hurts,,, even if they hurt themselves even more because i cannot even profit from their stupid moves.. since its killing me

with terminator one has to take into account the new players. When in doubt move away. Its like walking in a mine field at times. Escpecialy true when they think that taking army bonus is key to victory.

WestWind wrote:Any decent strategies to prevent this?

In Bigger games stay away(run,hide and be very afraid) from Cooks,Cadets and Privates.In 3 player games suck it up.Nothing you can do.

Play fog, play fog, and play fog. Also join rather than create games. Create/join private games. Never play 3player games. Avoid flat rate games, esc cards gives you a better chance to recover.

avoid terminator games as well. Lower ranks have figured out by eliminating a high ranking player in a terminator game their score sky rockets and if another low ranking player takes them out the still net a huge victory. no incentive for them to play rational or strategize. they don't care about the win it's all about the points.

play team games too. they don't suicide as much and your partner can help keep you alive if they do.

to recap, no terminator, no flat rate, no three player, no sunny.
play larger games, esc, foggy, or team games. Suiciding still happens but it's a lot harder to do.

Nzen wrote:Oh my god, they are such little b_____s. Why won't they lie down and let me grind them into dust at my leisure?

Frankly, because it is boring to lose. It is worse to have to summon the strength to put down three paltry units for a week, with no conqerable territories nearby, waiting on the whim of the stronger players. Suiciding against another player, winning or not, returns a measure of control and perhaps fun because the player has an achievable goal again.

So, yes, you could isolate yourself from the lower ranks, hoping that winners have the discipline to resist the temptation near Act 3. That wouldn't solve the problem though since a cook or the easily bored can join any game that isn't private.

To eliminate the practice, you must answer, "how can I make losing more fun than suiciding and then losing?" I don't know. Unfortunately, Risk, like Monopoly, offers little to the disposessed short of redirecting them to Settlers of Catan. I'll blow some smoke anyway. Perhaps, you could offer the potential threat some tactical suggestions or a nonagression pact in the chat. If ahead and well defended, you could try pulling back from a territory [blasphemy!] to give that player an achievable goal again. Obviously, your competition won't offer mercy; but, should you survive and the target fall into ennui again, your 'kindness' will likely redirect him/er against another opponent.

Or, you could recognize that suicide is a legitimate tactic. If another player in the game cashed in a mixed set and broke your border with the same number of units as a suicider, would you post about it on the forums? Avoid spoils games? Avoid terminator games where a lower rank might 'overextend' against a Captain for the points? Frankly, thinking that an attack without the other player drawing a "benefit" smacks of the apocryphal lament of the British concerning the American insurrectionists: "why won't these cowards stand in a line and trade fire like civilized men?"

I can't imagine.

Well said, dying with dignity is a big part of Conquer Club/Risk, I think because of the time investment, it feels 'wasted' if you died at the whim of another player. If you died achieving a goal, there's some satisfaction in it. Playing Risk IRL, I've even had a player whom I had no real friendship or alliance with on the verge of elimination suggest I finish him off and make a comeback with his cards. And the group I play Risk with IRL has a big 'heavyweight' Risk fan who dominates if the rest of us as a whole don't keep him down, on several games with him I or other players have suicided on him just to ensure that he won't win.

Personally I avoid the tactic (I haven't played much here, but IRL I just manipulate people with diplomacy if I'm down on my luck rather than throw my tiny army at someone's stronghold), but it's not as stupid or bad as some think in my opinion. Unless they still have a fighting chance in the game, in that case they're just retarded.

I disagree about no terminater. But thats just me. Anyone can make rank with a good team mate...try7 and do it solo for the challange. In the end its all meaningless. Just virtual armies killed by moody dice.

Terminator is a great way to build confidence and grab some points for the new player.

Iron Butterfly wrote:I disagree about no terminater. But thats just me. Anyone can make rank with a good team mate...try7 and do it solo for the challange. In the end its all meaningless. Just virtual armies killed by moody dice.

Terminator is a great way to build confidence and grab some points for the new player.

I'd have to disagree agree as its one method they teach cooks in the society of cooks,but hey thats just me.
You are entitles to your opinion.