The Improbable Always Wins....WTF?

[Pedronicus]

I'm sorry Woodruff, but there are no options. Nothing can overcome the dice. The sooner you realize we must bow to our overlords and cease resistance, the better.


--Andy

Andy

Maybe if you had a reasonable rank (and that isn't a dig) you might understand more, the annoyance this site causes with the dice being so shit.
It's in this sites interest for the people who are in power, to be playing a similar level of higher ranking level games to grasp the frustration of paying customers.

In most games where a score is kept, the majority of people are trying to improve their score.
You no longer care about your score because it's mediocre. It allows you sufficient time to patrol the forums, but you in your moderator role have lost interest in the games.

I'm often hearing that there are only 5000 people posting in the forums therefore the poll results are not a fair overview of all players. But there are even less admin staff than forum posters, so the view of admin is even more skewed.

The dice are fucked Andy. The sooner that you and the rest of the staff realise this, the better for the site.

Regards

Pedro

[MNDuke]

Right on, right on.

[thegreekdog]

I'm sorry Woodruff, but there are no options. Nothing can overcome the dice. The sooner you realize we must bow to our overlords and cease resistance, the better.


--Andy

Andy

Maybe if you had a reasonable rank (and that isn't a dig) you might understand more, the annoyance this site causes with the dice being so shit.
It's in this sites interest for the people who are in power, to be playing a similar level of higher ranking level games to grasp the frustration of paying customers.

In most games where a score is kept, the majority of people are trying to improve their score.
You no longer care about your score because it's mediocre. It allows you sufficient time to patrol the forums, but you in your moderator role have lost interest in the games.

I'm often hearing that there are only 5000 people posting in the forums therefore the poll results are not a fair overview of all players. But there are even less admin staff than forum posters, so the view of admin is even more skewed.

The dice are fucked Andy. The sooner that you and the rest of the staff realise this, the better for the site.

Regards

Pedro

MNDuke seems to indicate that it's not about score for him. I can get on board with him saying that strategy being impacted by dice could be a detriment to enjoyability.

If it's about score for the rest of you, please refer to my previous message:

Except that everyone is subject to the same dice. You are subject to the same dice as I am. Woodruff is subjected to the same dice as you are. The current conqueror (whoever that is) is subject to the same dice as I am. So, your ascendancy to captain is not because of or in spite of the dice. Similarly, my descent to private is not because of the dice.

This is what people are trying to convey to you. If the dice are changed, everyone will still be subject to the same dice. They won't "improve" just for you, they'll "improve" for everyone. Thus, you won't gain any comparative advantage over anyone else. Effectively, you'll still remain a captain with a 53% win percentage (all other things being equal except the dice) if the dice are "changed."

[trapyoung]

If it's about score for the rest of you, please refer to my previous message:

Except that everyone is subject to the same dice. You are subject to the same dice as I am. Woodruff is subjected to the same dice as you are. The current conqueror (whoever that is) is subject to the same dice as I am. So, your ascendancy to captain is not because of or in spite of the dice. Similarly, my descent to private is not because of the dice.

This is what people are trying to convey to you. If the dice are changed, everyone will still be subject to the same dice. They won't "improve" just for you, they'll "improve" for everyone. Thus, you won't gain any comparative advantage over anyone else. Effectively, you'll still remain a captain with a 53% win percentage (all other things being equal except the dice) if the dice are "changed."

This is inaccurate. If the site skews towards a certain number, be it any number 1-6 (anything beyond equal distribution), then the defender is benefited. The game has changed from plan and attack to wait and watch opponent fail. It has impacted strategy.

Another common complaint of the dice is streaking. Yes, streaking impacts everyone, but any instance of streaking positive or negative can sway a turn or a game and have greater repercussions. In a challenge, this could determine a clan war. In a tournament, it can determine who advances and who does not. If the streaks were diminished and the distributions were verified as approaching the predicted outcomes for an infinite set, then both these problems would be diminished.

[thegreekdog]

By the way - I think the dice are screwed up too. So, you may say, "why are you arguing for the current dice system?" I would refer you again to my previous post, but to emphasize the point - the dice are the same for everyone all the time forever. What is changing the dice going to do? You'll get less streaks? So what? How is that going to help you win games or prevent you from losing games? Explain that to me for the love of pearl!

If, on the other hand, you're complaining because the game is less enjoyable for you, regardless of score... I can get on board with that.

This is inaccurate. If the site skews towards a certain number, be it any number 1-6 (anything beyond equal distribution), then the defender is benefited. The game has changed from plan and attack to wait and watch opponent fail. It has impacted strategy.

So it's bad that it has impacted strategy? Okay - so higher ranked players have obviously adjusted their strategies.

Yes, streaking impacts everyone, but any instance of streaking positive or negative can sway a turn or a game and have greater repercussions. In a challenge, this could determine a clan war.

I understand and can get on board with this being a reason for me to support changing the dice. However, again, streakiness impacts rolls either way. I'm admittedly not familiar with the clans, but generally, in my experience, tournaments are decided by who is the best player and only in limited circumstances do dice affect tournies.

[Gold Knight]

I'm not going to take any sides on this, but I would just like to point out there has been no actual solutions to the problem, just bickering. I understand and see the dice streaks, but until there is something else put on the table, I don't see this going anywhere other than another dice thread for the archives. I don't really have any alternatives to offer either, which is why I just go with the shots.

[WestWind]

You clearly are a private because you have no skill. He is clearly a captain because the dice screw him over. Get with the program.

Okay, riddle me this Batman: What if I was to tell you I was a major four months ago? What then? Dice or skill?

I am complaining about the dice for the same reason nikola_milicki is. He has a 62% win rating and is a col. It has nothing to do with rank and win percentage, however. This is merely a dice thing. There is a noticeable difference in streakiness resulting in unbalanced game play and a loss of overall strategy. Maybe if the dice weren't bs, I would be at 54% and a major. Who knows? It doesn't change the status quo. Dice broke. Please fix.

The difference between you and me is that I attempt to change my strategy depending upon the dice I'm getting. For example, way back when I was a captain, if it was a 9 v. 2 and I had just lost 0 v. 2 twice in a row, I would continue to attack because I knew the dice would switch over and I would win. Now, I no longer do that. I'll stop at 5 v. 2 because I'm fairly sure I'm not going to win.

So far it hasn't worked, but mostly because I still lapse into the strategy of "Maybe this time..."

Just out of curiosity, thegreekdog, why do you think your rank/score has dropped? Have you been trying a different strategy? Playing different maps? Or do you think you just got a lucky streak that bumped your score up, and now it has settled back down? I'm in no way trying to insult you or anything- I'm genuinely interested in why you think your score dropped. Mine did the same thing (from about 1790 points to 1400 points) over the course of a few months, and I can't think of anything I changed.

[Haggis_McMutton]

I would like to inform you all that today I won a 5 vs 1 losing 1 army and 4vs 1 losing none.
This is conclusive proof that the dice are fine.

There we go, dice problem settled.

Since we're talking about probabilities though, it really bothers me how all these people keep winning the lottery. It's like every month there's a new one. And the odds are like what? 1 in 10 million? phsya, like that's gonna happen EVERY DAMN MONTH. No way, it's happening way too often. Their like balls or whatever must be completely broken.
They should probably use random.org instead, way more reliable.

[nikola_milicki]

nobody is mad about 1 or 2 shitty turns, but everybody is mad about days when dice are a frikin disaster in like 80% of the turns one takes that day... ppl are mad about losing 400 points in 10 days, how the hell is that possible if nothing changes in ppls play? how do u explain that when it happens to a good experienced player who lost hundreds of points cuz of bs dice and his only fault was that he had way too many active games at the bad time..

I can honestly say i have not had any day wherein 80% of the turns I took were a disaster. In fact, I can't remember a day that has been close to that. I play a LOT of games at one time, and in many tournaments...so why do you think that might be the case?

how the hell shud I know... I have these days man, horrible days! one turn after another complete disaster..

Good strategy changes with the circumstances. Good strategy takes into account this "change in the dice". If your strategy isn't flexible enough to account for it, then I would suggest that your strategy is not as sound as you believe it to be. I think the major problem most of the complainers have is "the strategy I have always used that has always worked for me...no longer works", and they have not yet successfully adjusted to it.

what are u talking about here? ur generalizing with this good strategy story.. all u can do is attack a bit less, and by that I mean not do attacks that arent really important and necessary, give armies to ur partners if its not necessary for u to attack, and what about 1on1s, will u just sit with ur fingers crossed and wait for the other guy to brick? how more flexible can u be? if there is a move u have to make, attack u have to do then u do it, there are no strategies, there are good and bad moves, when I plan my move I cant take dice in consideration cuz its not something I control, and dice can always be good but also bad, we never know in advance, so I play as best as I can and hope I wont get screwed..

[thegreekdog]

You clearly are a private because you have no skill. He is clearly a captain because the dice screw him over. Get with the program.

Okay, riddle me this Batman: What if I was to tell you I was a major four months ago? What then? Dice or skill?

I am complaining about the dice for the same reason nikola_milicki is. He has a 62% win rating and is a col. It has nothing to do with rank and win percentage, however. This is merely a dice thing. There is a noticeable difference in streakiness resulting in unbalanced game play and a loss of overall strategy. Maybe if the dice weren't bs, I would be at 54% and a major. Who knows? It doesn't change the status quo. Dice broke. Please fix.

The difference between you and me is that I attempt to change my strategy depending upon the dice I'm getting. For example, way back when I was a captain, if it was a 9 v. 2 and I had just lost 0 v. 2 twice in a row, I would continue to attack because I knew the dice would switch over and I would win. Now, I no longer do that. I'll stop at 5 v. 2 because I'm fairly sure I'm not going to win.

So far it hasn't worked, but mostly because I still lapse into the strategy of "Maybe this time..."

Just out of curiosity, thegreekdog, why do you think your rank/score has dropped? Have you been trying a different strategy? Playing different maps? Or do you think you just got a lucky streak that bumped your score up, and now it has settled back down? I'm in no way trying to insult you or anything- I'm genuinely interested in why you think your score dropped. Mine did the same thing (from about 1790 points to 1400 points) over the course of a few months, and I can't think of anything I changed.

I've been trying to get a speed medal so I've been playing Doodle Earth, escalating, speed games with mostly privates and corporals.

Apart from that, I stopped playing team games almost altogether (I'm back to playing team games now) and I stopped playing no cards big builder maps (which, for some reason, I win).

That being said - I do blame the dice sometimes, especially when it's a 7 v. 1 and I lose. I think this should be an impossibility and it's extremely frustrating, especially when it's an escalating game and it's the last territory.

[SirSebstar]

I blame lack for not giving us mods an auto-win button...

[SirSebstar]

Just another thought. I have read the mod team is totally unpredictiable and often works totally random. Would it not be cool to have the dice take the actions of mods as the basic random event for calculations? That way i am sure to have done something wrong then i fail 2-7....

in addition, the improbable alwasy wins... WTF!!!, does that not by its very definition mean the improbable is no longer improbable, and therefor probable and thus fails? I love the diskworld series...

as a last addition, freestyle sucks, and out dice would be much better if Lack simply ditched the entire concept, because it offends the Gods tm.

[MNDuke]

Huh?

[nikola_milicki]

my last turn

10vs2 > 2vs2
5vs5 > 3vs5
4vs2 > 2vs2

edit: next two turns finished with 0-6

prolly gonna be one of those days I was talking about..

oh and there turns are in 1on1 tourney games, so I almost fucked in this round..

f*ck ur dice CC!

[SuicidalSnowman]

I'm not going to take any sides on this, but I would just like to point out there has been no actual solutions to the problem, just bickering. I understand and see the dice streaks, but until there is something else put on the table, I don't see this going anywhere other than another dice thread for the archives. I don't really have any alternatives to offer either, which is why I just go with the shots.

Just quoting so you have proof that this was actually posted.

Dice streaks are random and unfair! Change the system! But, if you always do higher numbers beat lower numbers, then wouldn't it just come down to drop or turn order? How does this game work without random dice? This isn't trolling or rude, seriously, what would be a better system?



And finally, can I nominate this for Best Andy Topic Ever? I am currently taking nominations if anyone else has seen something that even comes close to this.

[Baron Von PWN]

can somebody please explain this, one of u guys who think that the dice are ok maybe? andy? spock? natty? oh wait not u natty, this forum doesnt need another one of ur dumbass posts..
whenever Id ask these questions everybody acts like they dont see my post, same in this thread, one page since my post and still nobody has the answers for me..

nobody is mad about 1 or 2 shitty turns, but everybody is mad about days when dice are a frikin disaster in like 80% of the turns one takes that day... ppl are mad about losing 400 points in 10 days, how the hell is that possible if nothing changes in ppls play? how do u explain that when it happens to a good experienced player who lost hundreds of points cuz of bs dice and his only fault was that he had way too many active games at the bad time..

how can dice not be streaky and broken if something like this happens?? I usually spend 10 minutes in forum every day checking like 2-3 threads so if there's already an explanation somewhere please point me to it..

btw natty, ur post are really dumb

UR POST ARE

At least they have coherent spelling.

this one's even dumber..

I think the dice are fine. Most of the time they seem pretty reasonable, ocaisionaly you get a crazy streak. This happens with dice its nothing surprising.

[MNDuke]

my last turn

10vs2 > 2vs2
5vs5 > 3vs5
4vs2 > 2vs2

edit: next two turns finished with 0-6

prolly gonna be one of those days I was talking about..

oh and there turns are in 1on1 tourney games, so I almost fucked in this round..

f*ck ur dice CC!

I agree, f*ck the dice and f*ck the system. An improvement is not only needed it necessary to deliver the highest possibly quality of gameplay.

[natty dread]

my last turn

10vs2 > 2vs2
5vs5 > 3vs5
4vs2 > 2vs2

edit: next two turns finished with 0-6

prolly gonna be one of those days I was talking about..

oh and there turns are in 1on1 tourney games, so I almost fucked in this round..

f*ck ur dice CC!

You have a 10 v 2. You start attacking. You lose 2. You lose another 2. Now you're at 6 v 2. Why do you keep assaulting? At this point you should consider that if you keep losing, you'll be at 4v2 next, and unless it's absolutely crucial to the game that you kill that 2, you should stop assaulting here.

On another note:

What exactly are you saying, that you should never lose rolls that you think you "shouldn't lose"? Or, to be fair, you seem to be saying that you "shouldn't lose them so often"? But then, the dice are the same for everyone. And the dice analyzer proves that you still get a normal distribution of losses and wins. So what exactly do you want? How are the dice not being fair?

Maybe I'll get an answer for this, maybe I'll get another "ur posts r dumbz!!!111"... who knows.

[MNDuke]

my last turn

10vs2 > 2vs2
5vs5 > 3vs5
4vs2 > 2vs2

edit: next two turns finished with 0-6

prolly gonna be one of those days I was talking about..

oh and there turns are in 1on1 tourney games, so I almost fucked in this round..

f*ck ur dice CC!

You have a 10 v 2. You start attacking. You lose 2. You lose another 2. Now you're at 6 v 2. Why do you keep assaulting? At this point you should consider that if you keep losing, you'll be at 4v2 next, and unless it's absolutely crucial to the game that you kill that 2, you should stop assaulting here.

On another note:

What exactly are you saying, that you should never lose rolls that you think you "shouldn't lose"? Or, to be fair, you seem to be saying that you "shouldn't lose them so often"? But then, the dice are the same for everyone. And the dice analyzer proves that you still get a normal distribution of losses and wins. So what exactly do you want? How are the dice not being fair?

Maybe I'll get an answer for this, maybe I'll get another "ur posts r dumbz!!!111"... who knows.

It may even out over time, but the problem is that they even out in streaks and these streaks create unbalanced games which results in a loss of strategy and overall gameplay. Please try to follow along in the future and not just randomly interject.

[nikola_milicki]

my last turn

10vs2 > 2vs2
5vs5 > 3vs5
4vs2 > 2vs2

edit: next two turns finished with 0-6

prolly gonna be one of those days I was talking about..

oh and there turns are in 1on1 tourney games, so I almost fucked in this round..

f*ck ur dice CC!

You have a 10 v 2. You start attacking. You lose 2. You lose another 2. Now you're at 6 v 2. Why do you keep assaulting? At this point you should consider that if you keep losing, you'll be at 4v2 next, and unless it's absolutely crucial to the game that you kill that 2, you should stop assaulting here.

On another note:

What exactly are you saying, that you should never lose rolls that you think you "shouldn't lose"? Or, to be fair, you seem to be saying that you "shouldn't lose them so often"? But then, the dice are the same for everyone. And the dice analyzer proves that you still get a normal distribution of losses and wins. So what exactly do you want? How are the dice not being fair?

Maybe I'll get an answer for this, maybe I'll get another "ur posts r dumbz!!!111"... who knows.

OMG cant fkn believe this arrogant piece of shit retard!!!! Im having the shittiest day and on top of it I have to read more of your crap.. are u actually schooling me u stupid noob!?!?!? did it ever cross ur "mind" that I mightve autoattacked??????? is my strategy flowed cuz I used auto now???? and u must have a memory like a fish that lasts for like 5 seconds (so Ive heard) and dont remember anything what I said here or maybe u just write shit cuz u have nothing better to do.. what Im saying is that I shudnt be having 0-12 with 10vs2,5vs5,4vs2 followed by two turns ending by 0-6, followed by 3-9 in the most important game I have now, followed by other turns in flat games where I couldnt grab a fkn card followed by my opponent killing 2-3 lands in every game of our 5 game round in 1on1 tourney, he was even killing neutrals (!!) and the only game where he didnt kill 2-3 lands is the one where he won 6vs5 and all he was dropping was 3-4, even that wouldnt be unbearable if my dice werent bellow average in all games, then followed by other shitty turns and ALL OF THIS IN 1 AFTERNOON!! I dont even have like 70 active games so that this would only be like 30% of my turns, but only 20.... so u can stick that dice analyzer where sun dont shine cuz NOBODY on this site gives a shit about their losses and wins being normally distributed over 10000 rolls when they get fucked game after game and have no fun what so ever.. I cant be phlegmatic like some ppl are, I hate stupid ridiculous things that shudnt be happening especially if they are happening to me when Im trying to do my fkn best in every game..

just please stop talking to me bcuz after numerous posts u dont even understand what am I trying to say..

[MNDuke]

That is the best thing I've read in awhile.

[Georgerx7di]

Here's a good place for everyone to say in unison "If not for the dice, I would be conqueror".

[Haggis_McMutton]

OMG cant fkn believe this arrogant piece of shit retard!!!! Im having the shittiest day and on top of it I have to read more of your crap.. are u actually schooling me u stupid noob!?!?!? did it ever cross ur "mind" that I mightve autoattacked??????? is my strategy flowed cuz I used auto now???? and u must have a memory like a fish that lasts for like 5 seconds (so Ive heard) and dont remember anything what I said here or maybe u just write shit cuz u have nothing better to do.. what Im saying is that I shudnt be having 0-12 with 10vs2,5vs5,4vs2 followed by two turns ending by 0-6, followed by 3-9 in the most important game I have now, followed by other turns in flat games where I couldnt grab a fkn card followed by my opponent killing 2-3 lands in every game of our 5 game round in 1on1 tourney, he was even killing neutrals (!!) and the only game where he didnt kill 2-3 lands is the one where he won 6vs5 and all he was dropping was 3-4, even that wouldnt be unbearable if my dice werent bellow average in all games, then followed by other shitty turns and ALL OF THIS IN 1 AFTERNOON!! I dont even have like 70 active games so that this would only be like 30% of my turns, but only 20.... so u can stick that dice analyzer where sun dont shine cuz NOBODY on this site gives a shit about their losses and wins being normally distributed over 10000 rolls when they get fucked game after game and have no fun what so ever.. I cant be phlegmatic like some ppl are, I hate stupid ridiculous things that shudnt be happening especially if they are happening to me when Im trying to do my fkn best in every game..

just please stop talking to me bcuz after numerous posts u dont even understand what am I trying to say..

Can someone translate this? cause all I see is:

[MNDuke]

So glad all the rational conversationalists with something practical to say have chimed in. I'm pretty sure complacency isn't a good thing. Plus, its probably difficult for someone who only plays 4 games at a time to notice much about the dice. Trying playing 20, 30, 40 turns a day and there is noticeable streakiness to the dice. But hey, I would be willing to say the dice system is optimal for freemium play.

[nikola_milicki]

So glad all the rational conversationalists with something practical to say have chimed in. I'm pretty sure complacency isn't a good thing. Plus, its probably difficult for someone who only plays 4 games at a time to notice much about the dice. Trying playing 20, 30, 40 turns a day and there is noticeable streakiness to the dice. But hey, I would be willing to say the dice system is optimal for freemium play.

if it wasnt who would be buying premium anyway