The uniquivicable truth to the fact that C*C is 100% luck.

[Shadowraven]

hurm... interesting topic. Let me ask you this, if two unrelated people are playing chess against each other, and neither knows what the other is thinking... and neither can predict whether or not his opponent will see his checkmate coming up... can you not say then, that a certain percentage of whether or not his plan works will be luck from his or her perspective?
One can always say in hindsight... "It was bad luck that I didn't think of that... I would've on any other day... just a brainfart maybe" OR "What fantastic luck... my opponent overlooked my next move."

It's not ALWAYS about attention to detail... people are fallible, it's human nature. Therefore, there is ALWAYS an element of chance in everything we do... will this time be the time we get it right out of a hundred tries, or will this time be the one day, out of a hundred, that we screw up?

The dice are a numerical way of representing the basic concept of human unpredictability. There are a great number of ways in which one can reference this to ACTUAL battle and war.

War is not all about numbers in your army, it's about communication, morale, loyalty, mobility, precision, honesty (among allies and within the military itself)... it's about how well you know the lay of the land, are you on foreign soil or on home turf? Have you gone far inside enemy lines, or attacking your neighbor?

Einstein once said that the simplest answer is usually the correct one... nature has a funny way of doing amazing things with simple methodology. The basic concepts of CC emulate these things which you may have little control of, they also emulate the things you DO have control of.

I will just clear this up for those of you who are immersed in turn-based gaming..... any good RTS'er knows this:
Strategy is not the art of creating a foolproof plan... it's the art of betting on your best chance of success. Even when you bet on your best chance, it's not always good enough in life, nor will it be in CC.

HOWEVER, with a good strategic mind, and the tendency to gamble only what you should win (or can afford to lose) ((which against a good opponent... you cannot afford to think like that)) then you should come out winning more often than losing. Also, sometimes an attack is not so much about what you gain, as what your opponent loses.

I think that it's fair to assume that a 2 to 1 attack has a fairly good chance of failing... assuming that everyone used the same technology, it'd be a battle of attrition, morale, familiarity, and backing of the locals... in such a case, all the aforementioned things are in favor of the defender. As in life, so in war, there are always exceptions... and there will always be unforeseeable events. Hopefully, you have a backup strategy... otherwise you will continue to lose by putting all your eggs in a single basket (so to speak)

[Shadowraven]

also... no decent strategist will make excuses... the whole point of strategy is to adapt and overcome.

[Viceroy63]

"There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof [are] the ways of death. " - Proverbs 14:12

The book of wisdom states quite clearly that there is a way that seems right to us and yet is so wrong that it leads to death or Failure.

If there is a way that leads to failure; Is it not obvius that this implies that there must be a way that leads to success?

Luck has nothing to do with it. If you play well, you enjoy the benefits of what seems like "Good Luck" But bad players get all the rotten luck. Or so it seemeth unto me. Lol.

[pickleofdoom]

This thread is wrong. The truth is in fact biquivicable.

[TeeGee]

Good to see that the OP is still here. I wish I had the OP's dicestats too

[jefjef]

Good to see that the OP is still here. I wish I had the OP's dicestats too

In case you are confused - The Overall Battle outcome 3 vs 2 and 3 vs 1 stats are all that really matter and show whats going on.

The OP's defense 3 vs 2 is grossly low BUT such a small total number it's pretty meaningless. Yours are typical avg.

and whats with the almost 4 year bump?

[GoranZ]

Complain to random.org, they provide CC with the numbers.

Is "randomness" that we get from random.org calculated in the game score?

Since it isn't why anyone should complain to random.org?

[KoolBak]

I see that Frankyboy quit CC unequivocally almost 4 years ago....but he is currently ONLINE......wow....so much for unequivocalness....less....ish...ism...ness

[Viceroy63]

I have been giving some thought to this thread and I have come to the conclusion that random luck does not exist. Everything is determined by other factors. For example I can flip a coin and it will come out heads 75 to 85 percent of the time. Is that random Luck at play?

I do not think so. I think that it is simply that at both a conscious and subconcious level, I know and employ certain factors that allow me to make the coin come out heads most of the time. For example, I know the initial position that the coin starts out in. I also know the exact pressure that I apply and the way that I flip the coin. I also do not let the coin hit the floor for then there are more variables to consider. I catch the coin in mid air at just the right time and in the right way almost every time. All these are variables that at some point I consider when flipping a coin. A lot of us know this, I think.

No computer program can operate with out the consideration of variables and rules that guide it. The computer throws a 6 for one player on this turn and a 1 for the other guy. Then the computer may throw a 4 for one player on this turn and a 3 for the other guy. And the other guy may think that he has bad luck. But the computer is simply following a set of preprogrammed variables and rules just like in real life. When in real life you throw dice there are also rules and variable that make the roles. Understanding all the variables in nature or in a computer program may seem like a job for a genius but those who understand the odds and probability factors better, stand to be in the position to be considered lucky players.

But at any rate luck does not make the game. For I have seen some really "Lucky" players at the roles, lose games even against some really unlucky players. I can't believe that Lucky players at the roles, lose game because they are unlucky but must assume that Strategy also has a say in that as well. The "Unlucky Player" knew something about strategy that more then made up for the odds. But understanding the odds and probabilities of the dice and knowing a little bit of strategy will make one seem like an extremely lucky player.

There is one player that I know of that has an 81% win ratio. And he has played well over a thousand games. Does that mean that he is extremely lucky? No, it does not. It simply means that he has found a way to control the variables just like I can control the flip of the coin. Just like any of us can control the flip of any coin with practice. If we learn more about the variables and how to control them then we win more often then those who simply believe that it is all luck. It all come down to knowing and using that knowledge in our games as in life in order to achieve our desired goals.

Knowledge is power and not luck. And the more we know (and use) the further we go. In our games and in life.

-Viceroy63

[QoH]

For example I can flip a coin and it will come out heads 75 to 85 percent of the time.

Um... how do you figure?

[Viceroy63]

For example I can flip a coin and it will come out heads 75 to 85 percent of the time.

Um... how do you figure?

Practice the coin toss and you will see. Do everything the same way and catch it in mid air at precisely the same interval, in order to control that factor and you will basically come out with the same results almost everytime. If I am wrong about the coin toss then I must also be wrong about the person who wins 81% of his games.

How do you figure that?

Also let me point out that true luck or randomness can only occur when you do something exactly the same way and have different results each time. The definition of Madness by the way, is to do the same things exactly the same way each time, while expecting different results.

Therefore, if all randomness or luck are influenced by outside factors, then it stands to figure that if you limit or control these factors then you also limit and control randomness. The thing is that no one can naturally limit or control all influencing factors but can limit and control most if not some of them.

There is in fact a whole science that deals with odd and probabilities. In the coin toss it is much simpler to control. If you are interested then check out the link below that deals with how to cheat at the coin toss. Have fun.

http://www.kent.ac.uk/secl/philosophy/j ... /Raidl.pdf

[QoH]

For example I can flip a coin and it will come out heads 75 to 85 percent of the time.

Um... how do you figure?

Practice the coin toss and you will see. Do everything the same way and catch it in mid air at precisely the same interval, in order to control that factor and you will basically come out with the same results almost everytime. If I am wrong about the coin toss then I must also be wrong about the person who wins 81% of his games.

I'm not sure I understand you... are you saying it's impossible to win more than 50% of your games because it's all based on luck> Or am I just misinterpreting your words?

[SaviorShot]

^ Lol

[jefjef]

For example I can flip a coin and it will come out heads 75 to 85 percent of the time.

Um... how do you figure?

It's common knowledge that coin tails are gravity heavy.

[Viceroy63]

For example I can flip a coin and it will come out heads 75 to 85 percent of the time.

Um... how do you figure?

Practice the coin toss and you will see. Do everything the same way and catch it in mid air at precisely the same interval, in order to control that factor and you will basically come out with the same results almost everytime. If I am wrong about the coin toss then I must also be wrong about the person who wins 81% of his games.

I'm not sure I understand you... are you saying it's impossible to win more than 50% of your games because it's all based on luck> Or am I just misinterpreting your words?

No I am not saying that it is impossible to win 50% of your games because it's all luck. If anything I am saying the opposite. You can win more then 50% percent of your games but not because it's luck but because Luck is not a random thing. That is to say that the factors that contribute to randomness or chance can be controled and or calculated. Anything that you do exactly the same way each time, will have you come out with the exact same result each time.

The player that I know who wins 81% of his games does so because he has removed and controls the factors that contribute to randomness or chance. He creates the factors that lead to his success. For example he does not play 8 player games because there are just too many random variables to consider that can not be controlled. That is just one factor. There are others. If you play him then you play 1v1, fog, and other setting as well that you may or may not like and because he understand strategy very well he will know your next move even before you know what your next move will be. Lol.

But when discussing the dice rolls as luck, again there are variables, or factors that just can't be ignored. Think of it as waves on the beach. There is no set time for when the waves come in or go out but they can be measured and calculated to the point that you can determine with your eyes closed that a wave is coming in or going out by simply counting the waves per minute and setting a value of waves per second. You then count and most of the time your count will be right on target.

Say for example that there are 6 waves per minute. That means that on average, every 10 seconds there is a wave. Well if you count from the first wave then almost everytime that you count and get to 10, 20, 30, and so on, most of the time there should be a wave coming in and out as that is the average. Most of the time that is.

Of course it is more complicated then that but rest assured that the people who wrote these dice programs, actually "Wrote" a dice program and defined the factors and parameters; The rules that the roll of the dice must follow and obey.

So yes; It is possible to win more then 50% of the games if you understand, use and control the factors that are considered random luck or chance.

Understanding these variables and knowing something of strategy will help us to be very good players and have everyone around saying, "Damn! He is one 'lucky' Player." Lol.

[Viceroy63]

For example I can flip a coin and it will come out heads 75 to 85 percent of the time.

Um... how do you figure?

It's common knowledge that coin tails are gravity heavy.

Lol; That's funny. But you also have to consider if the head of the coin has an erection or not because that will change the gravity of the whole thing. Lol.

[tkr4lf]

For example I can flip a coin and it will come out heads 75 to 85 percent of the time.

Um... how do you figure?

Practice the coin toss and you will see. Do everything the same way and catch it in mid air at precisely the same interval, in order to control that factor and you will basically come out with the same results almost everytime. If I am wrong about the coin toss then I must also be wrong about the person who wins 81% of his games.

I'm not sure I understand you... are you saying it's impossible to win more than 50% of your games because it's all based on luck> Or am I just misinterpreting your words?

No I am not saying that it is impossible to win 50% of your games because it's all luck. If anything I am saying the opposite. You can win more then 50% percent of your games but not because it's luck but because Luck is not a random thing. That is to say that the factors that contribute to randomness or chance can be controled and or calculated. Anything that you do exactly the same way each time, will have you come out with the exact same result each time.

The player that I know who wins 81% of his games does so because he has removed and controls the factors that contribute to randomness or chance. He creates the factors that lead to his success. For example he does not play 8 player games because there are just too many random variables to consider that can not be controlled. That is just one factor. There are others. If you play him then you play 1v1, fog, and other setting as well that you may or may not like and because he understand strategy very well he will know your next move even before you know what your next move will be. Lol.

But when discussing the dice rolls as luck, again there are variables, or factors that just can't be ignored. Think of it as waves on the beach. There is no set time for when the waves come in or go out but they can be measured and calculated to the point that you can determine with your eyes closed that a wave is coming in or going out by simply counting the waves per minute and setting a value of waves per second. You then count and most of the time your count will be right on target.

Say for example that there are 6 waves per minute. That means that on average, every 10 seconds there is a wave. Well if you count from the first wave then almost everytime that you count and get to 10, 20, 30, and so on, most of the time there should be a wave coming in and out as that is the average. Most of the time that is.

Of course it is more complicated then that but rest assured that the people who wrote these dice programs, actually "Wrote" a dice program and defined the factors and parameters; The rules that the roll of the dice must follow and obey.

So yes; It is possible to win more then 50% of the games if you understand, use and control the factors that are considered random luck or chance.

Understanding these variables and knowing something of strategy will help us to be very good players and have everyone around saying, "Damn! He is one 'lucky' Player." Lol.

That's the thing though. CC doesn't use a dice program. They get their dice using random.org, which uses atmospheric noise to generate the dice rolls. From what I've heard, it's about the closest to true random dice that we could get without somebody actually rolling the dice in the real world.

[Viceroy63]

OK; I accept that but none the less some thing always determines something else. if it is not "atmospheric noise" then it is the shape of the die and the velocity at which it is thrown and the surface of the table or the humidity factor in the room or how heavy some one is breathing when he throws the dice but it is always something. If we figure it out, we can always learn to use it to our advantage. Or at the very least have some kind of manipulation over it.

I like 8 player games but I know that I won't get 50 percent wins. I got 50 percent wins playing 1v1. As to the dice there are always the laws of probability no matter who throws them. And the rest I leave to strategy as I learn it. The whole point is though that it is not 100% luck that determines who wins and who loses. There are many factors involved.

[chapcrap]

OK; I accept that but none the less some thing always determines something else. if it is not "atmospheric noise" then it is the shape of the die and the velocity at which it is thrown and the surface of the table or the humidity factor in the room or how heavy some one is breathing when he throws the dice but it is always something. If we figure it out, we can always learn to use it to our advantage. Or at the very least have some kind of manipulation over it.

I like 8 player games but I know that I won't get 50 percent wins. I got 50 percent wins playing 1v1. As to the dice there are always the laws of probability no matter who throws them. And the rest I leave to strategy as I learn it. The whole point is though that it is not 100% luck that determines who wins and who loses. There are many factors involved.

Yes, from now on, I will blame my dice failures on the shape of the dice.

[nebsmith]

I think i get it now - If i could control the weather I would roll nothing but sixes

[QoH]

OK; I accept that but none the less some thing always determines something else. if it is not "atmospheric noise" then it is the shape of the die and the velocity at which it is thrown and the surface of the table or the humidity factor in the room or how heavy some one is breathing when he throws the dice but it is always something. If we figure it out, we can always learn to use it to our advantage. Or at the very least have some kind of manipulation over it.

We can have some sort of manipulation over a machine that throws our dice? Show me the machine that breaths and we can talk.

Also show me the room in the internet what has a table, humidity factor, dice and something that throws them.

[SaviorShot]

This subject will never be dropped ... lol ... Random means anythang can happen ... Roll three 1's or three 6's 25 times in a roll ... If they make it were that cant happen then it would not be random anymore ... We all share the same dice program so thats fair to me. The real question we should be asking is will my dice be different/same if i take my turn at 1pm or wait until 3pm to take it... now thats a mind blower!!!

~†~ SaviorShot ~†~

[Viceroy63]

OK; I accept that but none the less some thing always determines something else. if it is not "atmospheric noise" then it is the shape of the die and the velocity at which it is thrown and the surface of the table or the humidity factor in the room or how heavy some one is breathing when he throws the dice but it is always something. If we figure it out, we can always learn to use it to our advantage. Or at the very least have some kind of manipulation over it.

I like 8 player games but I know that I won't get 50 percent wins. I got 50 percent wins playing 1v1. As to the dice there are always the laws of probability no matter who throws them. And the rest I leave to strategy as I learn it. The whole point is though that it is not 100% luck that determines who wins and who loses. There are many factors involved.

Yes, from now on, I will blame my dice failures on the shape of the dice.

I am truly sorry that I can not make myself any more clear then what I have done.

Peace.

[danfrank]

The dice program is unfair. I am to the point of thinking that cheat codes are being used. I sure would like to use them if they are available. This game is not rocket science. Strategy is useless when the defender always rolls 6's and 5's.

Yup and the programmers could easily handicap you if they dont like you also.. like they have done to me ....

[Viceroy63]

frankyboy wrote:
The dice program is unfair.

That is not what I meant at all. The program is what it is and can not be anything other then what it is. No matter what determines the numbers the laws that determine them must be obey. But simply that if you understand the laws of Odds and probability they you can play around them. No matter who or what throws the dice. I am simply saying that it is not good luck nor bad luck but understanding how the numbers are coming out. If you lose three rolls in a row then quit rolling because the odds are that you are only going to lose more. Cut your losses and fall back and wait until the law of averages are with you. Sooner or later it has to be.

Your plans of attack should consider the options of ceasing from your attack and falling back just in case. If on the other hand you see that you won three rolls in a row then the odds are that the dice are going to continue to fall out that way in your favor. What gamblers call a lucky streak could simply be the laws of nature aligning for that moment for those rolls. This would be the time to attack for all it's worth until the very last man if you think it necessary for you don't know when the "Lucky Streak" will strike again. Lol. But it will.

I do not claim to know how it works only that there are patterns in the universe and patterns in life and patterns in everything around us and when we understand the patterns better, then we can work around them. The laws of probability dictates that each number on the dice has a 1 in 6 chance of coming out per roll. But the law of averages suggest that they do not have to come out each one per roll. Out of six hundred rolls each number should come out 100 time. But if you don't see any six's the first 500 times then the law of probabilites suggest that a shit load of 6's are about to be rolled. It's almost like counting cards in the Casino's. There are people who actually make a living counting cards and gambling. In fact there is a whole science dedicated to that.

So if your rolls are not good then cut your losses short and wait until the "Pendulum" of the laws of Averages swings back to your favor. If you continue your attacks when the law of averages is not in your favor and you lose the game it is not because you had bad luck at the dice but because you went against the tide and continued when the law of averages were against you. While if you had waited until the law of averages were with you to attack then you would have been "Lucky" as people see it.