GLG verdict

[Woodruff]

Point is, GLG wasn't breaking any rules.

You keep saying this, but it's not true. He absolutely was breaking the rule against gross abuse of the game system. We've already pointed out to you that almost every enforcement system has this sort of a general catchall rule, even the United States military.

[codeblue1018]

pretty much yes, except you left out the part of him doing it exclusively hundreds of times.

So what? There's plenty of people who don't play any public games at all, and only play with certain people of their choosing. Should all of those players be banned too? Is there a rule on CC somewhere "X percentage of your games must be public games"?

i disagree, it has changed tremendously for the better since i've been a member.

Right, I'm sure that's why the member count has dropped by 2500 in the last year alone. And by 8500 in the last 3 years.

i thoght that's what they were doing here. i mean they just arrested a guy for saying "gayface" in a negative way.

That has what to do with this?

Point is, GLG wasn't breaking any rules. He's playing games that are easy for him to win, true, but should that be any cause for punishment? He's benefiting from what he does because of a flawed scoring system. Instead of punishing individual players for gaining benefit from a site flaw, maybe that flaw should be fixed? The way things are now is just poor design.

Instead of abiding by the rules as they are written, the mods/admins have decided to offer up GLG as a sacrifical lamb to the whiny mobs who are simply pissed because someone is getting imaginary points in a way they find disagreeable.

What GLG is doing may not be to everyone's liking. It may not be the most "honorable" way of gathering imaginary points on a gaming site. But all he's really doing is choosing his opponents, who WILLINGLY enter games with him. He's not using any cheats, he's not using any kind of forbidden methods that give him an advantage in his games, he's simply being better at the game he plays than his opponents.

Fact is, if GLG was losing 50% of the games he was playing, no one would complain about the method he uses to choose his opponents. No one would care. But since he wins a lot, suddenly everyone is concerned about the "poor low-rank players who don't know what they're doing"...

Natty,

What part do you not understand in regards to GLG's playing habits? Do you not see the methodical, almost prey like choosing of his opponents? It's all there mate; no one had made these things up. I cannot for the life of me understand your comment about GLG not breaking the rules. He was warned upteen times until which time it was a public warning then an eventual ban for continuing the same acts only reversed. I sound like a broken record as some fail to grasp the facts. It's all there; feel free to re-read the plethora of threads against this user name and his previous user name. Bottom line, people were fed up and a blanket rule exists, which sealed this case. The next infraction, seeeeee ya.

[jefjef]

Just a question - you consider me a hater?

No. from what I know of your character based on our history I have a high opinion of you.

Thank you D!

From my in depth analysis the GLG verdict was very much correct and necessary.

Discussion on this topic is now complete and this thread may be archived.

[natty dread]

IF GLG chooses the map, the settings and opponent, what do his opponents chose?

His opponents choose whether to join the game or not. No one is forcing them at gunpoint. No opponent of his has shown up to complain about "being abused". It's only you moralists who are so concerned of the "poor little low-rankers who can't think for themselves". You think yourself so superior to all the lowranks, that it's your natural duty to protect them from themselves...

So benefiting from bugs in the game is not cheating? As far as I'm concerned Gross Abuse cover that one too...

There is no bug. A bug is an unintentional mistake in the coding that may or may not allow explotation. GLG is not exploiting any bugs. He is playing within the rules, he's not using any kind of cheats - it's just that the system rewards his type of play disproportionately, because of a design flaw. Because the system is fundamentally flawed. That's an entirely different thing than a bug - the system as it is now is intentionally designed to be as it is - it just happens to be a flawed system. So some people benefit from it, even though they play within the rules.

Point is, GLG wasn't breaking any rules.

You keep saying this, but it's not true. He absolutely was breaking the rule against gross abuse of the game system. We've already pointed out to you that almost every enforcement system has this sort of a general catchall rule, even the United States military.

Ok, sure. Gross abuse. Which means what exactly? This week it's GLG. Next week, it's someone else who the mob latches on to for getting too many wins, too many points etc. There's always something that can be found of anyone who succeeds in this game, that doesn't fit in the purists view of how the game "should" be played.

And how exactly is GLG's play "gross abuse"? Because he plays against opponents that are worse than him at what he does? Big deal. Look at anyone who has a high win percentage. They do the same thing.

Natty,

What part do you not understand in regards to GLG's playing habits? Do you not see the methodical, almost prey like choosing of his opponents?

Oh, the poor little low rankers, won't someone protect them from themselves?

I cannot for the life of me understand your comment about GLG not breaking the rules. He was warned upteen times

Yeah, and then he was banned. That's kind of circular reasoning though, isn't it? You're using the punishment as evidence for the crime.

Bottom line, people were fed up and a blanket rule exists, which sealed this case.

Exactly my point...

[Woodruff]

Point is, GLG wasn't breaking any rules.

You keep saying this, but it's not true. He absolutely was breaking the rule against gross abuse of the game system. We've already pointed out to you that almost every enforcement system has this sort of a general catchall rule, even the United States military.

Ok, sure. Gross abuse. Which means what exactly? This week it's GLG. Next week, it's someone else who the mob latches on to for getting too many wins, too many points etc. There's always something that can be found of anyone who succeeds in this game, that doesn't fit in the purists view of how the game "should" be played.

No. The C&A mods have shown time and time again that they DON'T have much interest in what we colloquially call "ranching". GLG's methods were simply so far out of the pale, combined with his already having been warned previously, that action was necessary.

And how exactly is GLG's play "gross abuse"? Because he plays against opponents that are worse than him at what he does? Big deal. Look at anyone who has a high win percentage. They do the same thing.

He is manipulating the points system, it's as simple as that. Look, I actually agree with you that a new scoring system is necessary. Unfortunately, the site admins are not interested in that, and so the C&A mods are forced to do what they feel is necessary within the system we have.

[GoranZ]

IF GLG chooses the map, the settings and opponent, what do his opponents chose?

His opponents choose whether to join the game or not. No one is forcing them at gunpoint. No opponent of his has shown up to complain about "being abused". It's only you moralists who are so concerned of the "poor little low-rankers who can't think for themselves". You think yourself so superior to all the lowranks, that it's your natural duty to protect them from themselves...

They have a lot to chose ... And more then 1 GLG opponent complained that he was abused(search the forum and u will find many). I dont think my self as superior to lowranks, you imagine me as superior to lowranks, and what you imagine is really not my problem. I don't have a duty to protect anyone, there is no need to protect someone if everything is according to the rules.

So benefiting from bugs in the game is not cheating? As far as I'm concerned Gross Abuse cover that one too...

There is no bug. A bug is an unintentional mistake in the coding that may or may not allow explotation. GLG is not exploiting any bugs. He is playing within the rules, he's not using any kind of cheats - it's just that the system rewards his type of play disproportionately, because of a design flaw. Because the system is fundamentally flawed. That's an entirely different thing than a bug - the system as it is now is intentionally designed to be as it is - it just happens to be a flawed system. So some people benefit from it, even though they play within the rules.

A software bug is the common term used to describe an error, flaw...
Definition borrowed from wikipedia.org but every other dictionary or encyclopedia will give you the same definition.

P.S. I guess I'm correct and you are WRONG, and GLG is using bugs

[greenoaks]

if the Conquerer asked me to play a game with him i would accept. if he said 'create this game and send me an invite' i would do so.

i don't expect to win, he's the Conquerer.

i do expect to brag afterwards that i could've beaten him if only the dice were kinder.

i don't appreciate the implication i must be mentally retarded to accept a game against a Conquerer.

[Jdsizzleslice]

Verdict is in and it's a one month ban per guidelines. Fair verdict on the mods part. Perhaps this verdict with sway further loopholes for GLG to explore once he returns especially if the next infraction results in a perma ban.

Good job c/a staff on attempting to keep things clean.

+100

+100 to the +100.

Lol... I love how we have a big ass thread in GD about how membership is declining and part of it is because noobs/mid levels can't play complex maps and settings... the Conqueror takes time out of his busy schedule to help teach noobs freestyle and other settings, but he gets vilified.. bunch of bullshit, bad ruling made to appease the haters.

Did anyone else find this ridiculously FUNNY ??? Let me rephrase this for you, because I think you used a few words you don't understand.

Lol... I love how we have a huge thread in GD about how membership is declining and part of it is because noobs/mid levels don't understand complex maps and settings, and therefore are easy to target... the Conqueror takes time out of his busy schedule to help farm these noobs on freestyle and other settings, and he gets vilified for farming... bunch of truth! Great ruling made by the Mods!

[natty dread]

IF GLG chooses the map, the settings and opponent, what do his opponents chose?

His opponents choose whether to join the game or not. No one is forcing them at gunpoint. No opponent of his has shown up to complain about "being abused". It's only you moralists who are so concerned of the "poor little low-rankers who can't think for themselves". You think yourself so superior to all the lowranks, that it's your natural duty to protect them from themselves...

They have a lot to chose ... And more then 1 GLG opponent complained that he was abused(search the forum and u will find many). I dont think my self as superior to lowranks, you imagine me as superior to lowranks, and what you imagine is really not my problem. I don't have a duty to protect anyone, there is no need to protect someone if everything is according to the rules.

So what rules did GLG break when he played against a lower-ranked player? Did he use some kind of cheat? Did he hack the website? Because that'd be really bad. That'd be cheating.

Did he use a dice hack?

So benefiting from bugs in the game is not cheating? As far as I'm concerned Gross Abuse cover that one too...

There is no bug. A bug is an unintentional mistake in the coding that may or may not allow explotation. GLG is not exploiting any bugs. He is playing within the rules, he's not using any kind of cheats - it's just that the system rewards his type of play disproportionately, because of a design flaw. Because the system is fundamentally flawed. That's an entirely different thing than a bug - the system as it is now is intentionally designed to be as it is - it just happens to be a flawed system. So some people benefit from it, even though they play within the rules.

A software bug is the common term used to describe an error, flaw...
Definition borrowed from wikipedia.org but every other dictionary or encyclopedia will give you the same definition.

P.S. I guess I'm correct and you are WRONG, and GLG is using bugs

No, actually, you're a moron. You can take a partial sentence out of context from a wikipedia article which you obviously don't understand, but it doesn't make you any more correct.

The definition of a software bug is a programming error. It means the software does something which it is not intended to do. It's a glitch in the programming, that the programmer didn't intend it to do. This shouldn't be complicated to understand - we have a bug reports forum, if you go there and tell them there's a bug in the scoring system because certain players are getting too many points, they're going to move your thread and tell you it's NOT A BUG, because that's not what a bug is in this context.

This is not rocket science. If it's intended behaviour, it's not a bug. A design flaw is not the same thing as a bug.

PS. How convenient for you that you left out the rest of that sentence you're quoting:

A software bug is the common term used to describe an error, flaw, mistake, failure, or fault in a computer program or system that produces an incorrect or unexpected result, or causes it to behave in unintended ways.

So you're not only a moron, you're a dishonest moron.

[GoranZ]

IF GLG chooses the map, the settings and opponent, what do his opponents chose?

His opponents choose whether to join the game or not. No one is forcing them at gunpoint. No opponent of his has shown up to complain about "being abused". It's only you moralists who are so concerned of the "poor little low-rankers who can't think for themselves". You think yourself so superior to all the lowranks, that it's your natural duty to protect them from themselves...

They have a lot to chose ... And more then 1 GLG opponent complained that he was abused(search the forum and u will find many). I dont think my self as superior to lowranks, you imagine me as superior to lowranks, and what you imagine is really not my problem. I don't have a duty to protect anyone, there is no need to protect someone if everything is according to the rules.

So what rules did GLG break when he played against a lower-ranked player? Did he use some kind of cheat? Did he hack the website? Because that'd be really bad. That'd be cheating.

Did he use a dice hack?

Why said that playing against lower-ranked players is illegal? Are you sure that you are not starting to imagine things? The ruling against GLG is different, even the report against him was different

So benefiting from bugs in the game is not cheating? As far as I'm concerned Gross Abuse cover that one too...

There is no bug. A bug is an unintentional mistake in the coding that may or may not allow explotation. GLG is not exploiting any bugs. He is playing within the rules, he's not using any kind of cheats - it's just that the system rewards his type of play disproportionately, because of a design flaw. Because the system is fundamentally flawed. That's an entirely different thing than a bug - the system as it is now is intentionally designed to be as it is - it just happens to be a flawed system. So some people benefit from it, even though they play within the rules.

A software bug is the common term used to describe an error, flaw...
Definition borrowed from wikipedia.org but every other dictionary or encyclopedia will give you the same definition.

P.S. I guess I'm correct and you are WRONG, and GLG is using bugs

No, actually, you're a moron. You can take a partial sentence out of context from a wikipedia article which you obviously don't understand, but it doesn't make you any more correct.

The definition of a software bug is a programming error. It means the software does something which it is not intended to do. It's a glitch in the programming, that the programmer didn't intend it to do. This shouldn't be complicated to understand - we have a bug reports forum, if you go there and tell them there's a bug in the scoring system because certain players are getting too many points, they're going to move your thread and tell you it's NOT A BUG, because that's not what a bug is in this context.

This is not rocket science. If it's intended behaviour, it's not a bug. A design flaw is not the same thing as a bug.

PS. How convenient for you that you left out the rest of that sentence you're quoting:

A software bug is the common term used to describe an error, flaw, mistake, failure, or fault in a computer program or system that produces an incorrect or unexpected result, or causes it to behave in unintended ways.

So you're not only a moron, you're a dishonest moron.

Your theory turn out to be wrong and I'm a moron Grow up m8, fight like a man, no need to be chicken
This: "..." means that there is something after what I quoted(that's why I also provided link).

Lets quote you again:

There is no bug. A bug is an unintentional mistake in the coding that may or may not allow explotation. GLG is not exploiting any bugs. He is playing within the rules, he's not using any kind of cheats - it's just that the system rewards his type of play disproportionately, because of a design flaw. Because the system is fundamentally flawed. That's an entirely different thing than a bug - the system as it is now is intentionally designed to be as it is - it just happens to be a flawed system. So some people benefit from it, even though they play within the rules.

Borrowed from wikipedia.org... read the rest on wikipedia

A software bug is the common term used to describe an error, flaw, mistake, failure, or fault in a computer program or system that produces an incorrect or unexpected result, or causes it to behave in unintended ways. Most bugs arise from mistakes and errors made by people in either a program's source code or its design...

@natty dread Here you are I quoted two sentences, and it turns out that design flaws are part of software bugs . So how will you call me now?

[natty dread]

Why said that playing against lower-ranked players is illegal? Are you sure that you are not starting to imagine things? The ruling against GLG is different, even the report against him was different

I didn't say that. That's why I asked what rule he broke. You should pay attention.

Anyway, since you keep dodging the question, I assume this means you can't actually justify GLG:s ban as being caused by a breach of rules.

Your theory turn out to be wrong and I'm a moron Grow up m8, fight like a man, no need to be chicken
This: "..." means that there is something after what I quoted(that's why I also provided link).

Ok, gotcha.

... I'm a moron ...

Am I doing it right?

@natty dread Here you are I quoted two sentences, and it turns out that design flaws are part of software bugs . So how will you call me now?

Still a moron. See, I also quote two sentences from the wikipedia article on GoranZ:

GoranZ is a well-known moron.[1] This is because he is stupid and doesn't know the difference between a software bug and flawed design.[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GoranZ

See, what your quote of whole two sentences doesn't show is that the word "design" is a link, which links to the article on Software Architecture. It is thus very clear that "design" in this context does not mean what you think it does. It simply refers to the overall structure of the implementation. An "error in design" in this context means that the structure of the program is written poorly which results with unintended behaviour.

Again, since this seems to be a hard concept for you to grasp: bugs are unintended behaviour. The game engine, the scoring system, etc. doesn't contain any behaviour that is unintended by it's programmer. The game engine works exactly as it was intended. The implementation is sound, but the concept is flawed in some ways. This means that there are no software bugs, and GLG isn't exploting a bug in the game engine to gain points. If he was, all we'd have to do would be to report the bug on the bug reports forum and it would be fixed. But this isn't the case.

So, are you now going to quote 3 sentences to me to prove how I'm "wrong" about something which you have no clue about?

[Dukasaur]

Isn't it possible to debate that without the flaming?

[natty dread]

Isn't it possible to debate that without the flaming?

I dunno, probably not.

[GoranZ]

Isn't it possible to debate that without the flaming?

I dunno, probably not.

Saying in my native language:

The one that loses has a right to be angry

[natty dread]

Isn't it possible to debate that without the flaming?

I dunno, probably not.

Saying in my native language:

The one that loses has a right to be angry

Are you feeling angry?

Tell you what - take a deep breath and count to ten. Then stick your thumb up your arse and quack like a duck. It probably won't help, but it never hurts to try, right?

[GoranZ]

Isn't it possible to debate that without the flaming?

I dunno, probably not.

Saying in my native language:

The one that loses has a right to be angry

Are you feeling angry?

Tell you what - take a deep breath and count to ten. Then stick your thumb up your arse and quack like a duck. It probably won't help, but it never hurts to try, right?

I don't see any reason why I should be angry I see you are angry, and that arse thing didn't work for you(although u probably knew that it won't work)

Back on topic... Bottom line is that GLG is convicted and he will not be able to repeat his regular cheating when he will return.

[HighlanderAttack]

pretty much yes, except you left out the part of him doing it exclusively hundreds of times.

So what? There's plenty of people who don't play any public games at all, and only play with certain people of their choosing. Should all of those players be banned too? Is there a rule on CC somewhere "X percentage of your games must be public games"?

i disagree, it has changed tremendously for the better since i've been a member.

Right, I'm sure that's why the member count has dropped by 2500 in the last year alone. And by 8500 in the last 3 years.

i thoght that's what they were doing here. i mean they just arrested a guy for saying "gayface" in a negative way.

That has what to do with this?

Point is, GLG wasn't breaking any rules. He's playing games that are easy for him to win, true, but should that be any cause for punishment? He's benefiting from what he does because of a flawed scoring system. Instead of punishing individual players for gaining benefit from a site flaw, maybe that flaw should be fixed? The way things are now is just poor design.

Instead of abiding by the rules as they are written, the mods/admins have decided to offer up GLG as a sacrifical lamb to the whiny mobs who are simply pissed because someone is getting imaginary points in a way they find disagreeable.

What GLG is doing may not be to everyone's liking. It may not be the most "honorable" way of gathering imaginary points on a gaming site. But all he's really doing is choosing his opponents, who WILLINGLY enter games with him. He's not using any cheats, he's not using any kind of forbidden methods that give him an advantage in his games, he's simply being better at the game he plays than his opponents.

Fact is, if GLG was losing 50% of the games he was playing, no one would complain about the method he uses to choose his opponents. No one would care. But since he wins a lot, suddenly everyone is concerned about the "poor low-rank players who don't know what they're doing"...

I am with Natty here.

No one will ever agree on this subject--but who really cares. I know if I am GLG-I say f*ck CC and they do not get my 25 dollars ever again.

I also know it would be boring to play GLG's style--but really who thinks they are getting ambushed, farmed, ranched--very few--but like I said no one ever agrees on anything 100%.

what color is this ?

I bet a question like the one above comes up with many different results--even though the man with common sense answers RED.

Common sense does not rule this world though.

[natty dread]

Isn't it possible to debate that without the flaming?

I dunno, probably not.

Saying in my native language:

The one that loses has a right to be angry

Are you feeling angry?

Tell you what - take a deep breath and count to ten. Then stick your thumb up your arse and quack like a duck. It probably won't help, but it never hurts to try, right?

I don't see any reason why I should be angry I see you are angry, and that arse thing didn't work for you(although u probably knew that it won't work)

Oh, I'm a bitter, old, angry dude, and I've been disillusioned and made cynical by this cruel world. But that's beside the point. I'm more worried about your mental health, Göran. Can I call you Göran? You remind of the old butcher who used to have a shop nearby, his name was also Göran. He had to close down his shop when the health inspector found out he was sticking his dick in the brawn.

I wouldn't want to see you end up like old Göran. Take care, man. Too much stress can be harmful for your sperm count.

Back on topic... Bottom line is that GLG is convicted and he will not be able to repeat his regular cheating when he will return.

Ok, back on topic.

Are you still trying to argue that GLG is exploiting a bug? I have to say, I can understand if you want to sweep that whole episode under the rug - you were really being a world-class moron back there. No offense.

[GoranZ]

Isn't it possible to debate that without the flaming?

I dunno, probably not.

Saying in my native language:

The one that loses has a right to be angry

Are you feeling angry?

Tell you what - take a deep breath and count to ten. Then stick your thumb up your arse and quack like a duck. It probably won't help, but it never hurts to try, right?

I don't see any reason why I should be angry I see you are angry, and that arse thing didn't work for you(although u probably knew that it won't work)

Oh, I'm a bitter, old, angry dude, and I've been disillusioned and made cynical by this cruel world. But that's beside the point. I'm more worried about your mental health, Göran. Can I call you Göran? You remind of the old butcher who used to have a shop nearby, his name was also Göran. He had to close down his shop when the health inspector found out he was sticking his dick in the brawn.

I wouldn't want to see you end up like old Göran. Take care, man. Too much stress can be harmful for your sperm count.

You play with your arse, your friend played with his dick... I must admit that you Finish are strange people. I guess you must get out that stress building up from the long winter and short summer or maybe its just a coincidence and only you two have stress problems...

Anyway have fun with ever you do

P.S. Meaning of "Göran" is a lot different from the meaning of my name so I don't like to be called that way. ty

[natty dread]

I must admit that you Finish are strange people.

Racist.

[Woodruff]

I must admit that you Finish are strange people.

Racist.

As an honest aside...is "Finnish" a race? I thought it would be more "Scandinavian", perhaps (and I never really thought that was either)?

[natty dread]

I must admit that you Finish are strange people.

Racist.

As an honest aside...is "Finnish" a race? I thought it would be more "Scandinavian", perhaps (and I never really thought that was either)?

Seeing as there's no scientific definition for "race", it being a totally imaginary & arbitrary concept with no defined boundaries...

Yeah sure, why not.

[TeeGee]

play nice

Don't make me go all green on you guys.

Keep it on topic please and if you have to insult each other, keep it civil or off the forums




Warning: that is not an invitation to abuse each other via PM

[chang50]

Well done the mob,who's next?With a catchall offence like GLG was lynched under no-one is safe.Bad,bad day for cc.

[BigBallinStalin]

Isn't it possible to debate that without the flaming?

But it's not as fun to read, and natty's accusations of GoranZ being a moron apparently are true ITT, so that wouldn't constitute flaming.