Game Throwing?

[Mr Changsha]

Although I did not know of this warning Ljex, I was not all that surprised. You did make your intention pretty clear.
I am still a bit unclear as to the nature of the warning. Is it an official 1st step on the escalating ladder or just a nudge that they keep an close eye on you?

Anyways, the rankingsystem has flaws. Hell the site has flaws. Anybody abusing those flaws is likely to get a warning or worse. You announced your intention to legally pointdump knowing well that it was a blow against the integrity of the ranking system, and that is just that, you cannot be legally annoying.

Don't get me wrong, i know nothing about your case from the mods point of view, but this is what i was wondering/muzing..
Still, I am unsure if the C&A wll discus this with you, considering they never do. I don't think they should. Seeing how close you can get to not breaking a rule is just plain... annoying..

Yes I made my intentions very clear, to play lots of 1 vs 1 games and see where that got me...i played every single game with the intentions of winning, i just dont see how that can be illegal.



Lolz at the anybody abusing the integrity of the site will get a ban because last I checked every single conqueror ever has done that to get there.

I'm not trying to see how close I can get to not breaking the rules, where have I ever said that and this was an official warning, I received the unofficial one about a week ago when KA sent me a pm asking to make sure I was playing to win. As i told him now and as I said then I am playing every game to win. If playing games that you know in the long run will result in points lost was against the rules maybe he should have told me then so I could not have continued onto my official warning...

I actually fully agree. Unless it can be proven you werent playing well, you can no more be punished or warned for choosing a certain type of game, that you might lose, than everyone who has not made conqueror has chosen, and not achieved conqueror.

It was a mistake, and honestly, against the true spirit of Conquer Club, which has always, and hopefully always will be about freedom of choice of game type.

People have played this game for years, played thousands of games, and play games they cant possibly expect to gain points at. The fact that you did choose point gaining games for a while, should not at all limit you to what you choose next.

It really is like accusing a stockbroker of quitting his job and going to work for mcdonalds. Its kind of insane, but is his full right to pursue happiness. The fact that he knows he will lose millions, really should be irrelevant.

Quite right Fitz. Freedom to play your choice of game is an integral part of what makes this site superb. Just as farmers must be free to farm, high ranks must be free to drop their ranks playing games THEY KNOW will drop their ranks. Even if they are doing their best.

I don't understand how they got this one so wrong...unless there is genuine evidence of the chap not playing properly. Without that being presented, the warning should be removed and an apology offered forthwith.

[AAFitz]

Although I did not know of this warning Ljex, I was not all that surprised. You did make your intention pretty clear.
I am still a bit unclear as to the nature of the warning. Is it an official 1st step on the escalating ladder or just a nudge that they keep an close eye on you?

Anyways, the rankingsystem has flaws. Hell the site has flaws. Anybody abusing those flaws is likely to get a warning or worse. You announced your intention to legally pointdump knowing well that it was a blow against the integrity of the ranking system, and that is just that, you cannot be legally annoying.

Don't get me wrong, i know nothing about your case from the mods point of view, but this is what i was wondering/muzing..
Still, I am unsure if the C&A wll discus this with you, considering they never do. I don't think they should. Seeing how close you can get to not breaking a rule is just plain... annoying..

Yes I made my intentions very clear, to play lots of 1 vs 1 games and see where that got me...i played every single game with the intentions of winning, i just dont see how that can be illegal.



Lolz at the anybody abusing the integrity of the site will get a ban because last I checked every single conqueror ever has done that to get there.

I'm not trying to see how close I can get to not breaking the rules, where have I ever said that and this was an official warning, I received the unofficial one about a week ago when KA sent me a pm asking to make sure I was playing to win. As i told him now and as I said then I am playing every game to win. If playing games that you know in the long run will result in points lost was against the rules maybe he should have told me then so I could not have continued onto my official warning...

I actually fully agree. Unless it can be proven you werent playing well, you can no more be punished or warned for choosing a certain type of game, that you might lose, than everyone who has not made conqueror has chosen, and not achieved conqueror.

It was a mistake, and honestly, against the true spirit of Conquer Club, which has always, and hopefully always will be about freedom of choice of game type.

People have played this game for years, played thousands of games, and play games they cant possibly expect to gain points at. The fact that you did choose point gaining games for a while, should not at all limit you to what you choose next.

It really is like accusing a stockbroker of quitting his job and going to work for mcdonalds. Its kind of insane, but is his full right to pursue happiness. The fact that he knows he will lose millions, really should be irrelevant.

Quite right Fitz. Freedom to play your choice of game is an integral part of what makes this site superb. Just as farmers must be free to farm, high ranks must be free to drop their ranks playing games THEY KNOW will drop their ranks. Even if they are doing their best.

I don't understand how they got this one so wrong...unless there is genuine evidence of the chap not playing properly. Without that being presented, the warning should be removed and an apology offered forthwith.

Farming is quite different than joining games that one will probably lose.

It is easy to understand the logic behind the warning, because it seems like cause and effect. However, on a fundamental level, it is far less cause and effect. Point dumping is throwing games, not choosing to play risky games. At 4000 points, there are actually only a few game choices that could not be considered point dumping in this situation.

I admit, it probably wasnt wise to play them all at once, but I see no reason why score should decide what type of game you play, and I certainly defend his choice to play them, as long as he plays fairly well. To be honest, I dont even see any reason he has to play spectacular. If someone decides to go for it, and play at 100%, and then decides to not put as much thought into it, they would not be doing anything different than anyone else in the course of their playing career.

Again, its obvious his goals, and obvious he was too obvious about it, but I still think its fundamentally wrong to try to regulate it.

[jefjef]

The problem here and what we really need to be concerned about is that CC is saying that we can not play games that we try to win that do not allow us to maintain rank. If ljex had won every one of them then CC would not have warned him to cease playing.

It's absolutely ridiculous.

[AAFitz]

The problem here and what we really need to be concerned about is that CC is saying that we can not play games that we try to win that do not allow us to maintain rank. If ljex had won every one of them then CC would not have warned him to cease playing.

It's absolutely ridiculous.

Id have reported him for secret alliances. Winning all of them would have been nearly impossible.

[Crazyirishman]

The problem here and what we really need to be concerned about is that CC is saying that we can not play games that we try to win that do not allow us to maintain rank. If ljex had won every one of them then CC would not have warned him to cease playing.

It's absolutely ridiculous.

Id have reported him for secret alliances. Winning all of them would have been nearly impossible.

Yeah you get secret alliances all the time in 1v1's, that's why I don't play them too often.

[King_Herpes]

[AAFitz]

The problem here and what we really need to be concerned about is that CC is saying that we can not play games that we try to win that do not allow us to maintain rank. If ljex had won every one of them then CC would not have warned him to cease playing.

It's absolutely ridiculous.

Id have reported him for secret alliances. Winning all of them would have been nearly impossible.

Yeah you get secret alliances all the time in 1v1's, that's why I don't play them too often.

Well, if he won every one of them, hed have been farming and using scripts.

[SirSebstar]

i have an inkling that something happened, i am just not sure what. I dont think the warning was because ljex started played a different type of game, i dont even believe it was about his stated intention of dumping, not at this point anyways. so its likely to be something else

[KraphtOne]

If you got a warning for point dumping then i must applaud whomever did it for putting an official stamp on something that says "we really have no clue about governing people's behavior when it comes to playing CC"... "most of the time we just wait till a C&A thread is 8 pages long and go with the most popular decision"...

I'm sure whomever gave you this warning thought "Yeah this one is easy, see... look how fast his points drop!"

Basically you did (As we discussed in one of the games we were playing, which i'm sure is where KA decided he was going to issue the warning) EXACTLY what every other freestyle playing conquerer has done... hell what every conquerer with the exception of ONE has done...

You got bored playing auto-win games and waiting hours for games of choice to fill up, and said "hell with it i'm gonna just go back to playing anything"

And i love that you did it because it once again proves
A. That you CANNOT become conquerer without significantly limiting the types of games you play... and
B. That the moderators have absolutely zero clue as to what intelligent people consider to be cheating

Complete crock of F* B*S* ...

eh i need a smoke you guys are completely retarded

[KraphtOne]

and word your poll differently LJ ya idiot...

[Denise]

i have an inkling that something happened, i am just not sure what. I dont think the warning was because ljex started played a different type of game, i dont even believe it was about his stated intention of dumping, not at this point anyways. so its likely to be something else

I just want to clarify that ljex never said that he intended to dump points. He only said that he would play games that would lower his score. He never threw any games, which is what KA alleged. He played every game to win.

[jefjef]

i have an inkling that something happened, i am just not sure what. I dont think the warning was because ljex started played a different type of game, i dont even believe it was about his stated intention of dumping, not at this point anyways. so its likely to be something else

I just want to clarify that ljex never said that he intended to dump points. He only said that he would play games that would lower his score. He never threw any games, which is what KA alleged. He played every game to win.

Exactly. He only played games that he paid to play. He played to win. They can not call this game throwing. All it is is game playing. I'm surprised they did not liberally interpret this as point dumping. It's much closer to that then game throwing.

CC really needs to reverse this. They have no right to tell anyone the can't play legitimate games. (especially since they don't provide us with legitimate random...)

[natty dread]

especially since they don't provide us with legitimate random...

Oh brother.

[Dako]

I wonder what is the official response of the C&A mods to this because we have never heard from them.

[The Voice]

If this is indeed everything, then I surmise one of three scenarios has occurred:

1) Salem Witch Hunt: In the wake of Blitz, mods are seeing witches everywhere they turn. They must accuse others because making baseless accusations sustains them. It's like water to us normal people.

2) He's Compensating: KA made a power move because he feels threatened by Ljex's love for the game and new general apathy toward acquiring points.

2) Jealousy: Has a mod ever become conqueror? Well, ljex used to be a mod, correct? Then he retires and ends up topping the charts. That may have gotten under their skin.

In sum, all three scenarios are perfectly legitimate reasons for sending a person an official warning. I recommend we all get such a warning when we lose a certain amount of games in a row.

[king achilles]

These are the sample games:

Game 9117000
Game 9085510
Game 9085720
Game 9108521
Game 9108506
Game 9108494

First, I would like to point out that this is a game throwing case and not point dumping, as ljex selected which games he would lose while try to win others. In this method, you won't be seen as a point dumper as you did not massively dropped your games, To throw some games to get into a certain score/rank that you are after, then it is game throwing.

The pm sent to jefjef to further show intention:

"Soon after the last of my quads oasis games start and finish im going to play a bunch of 1 vs 1 games and let my rank slide as low as it can while i still try to win every game. Im guessing if i play really simple maps 1 vs 1 and a bunch of assdoodles i can get down to 1500 or so..."

viewtopic.php?p=3167190#p3167190

And also the game chat from Game 9092482.

ljex: legally point dumping
ljex: im going to see how low i can get for a few reasons
ljex: 1) to stick it to the mods after they banned commander for point dumping to show them that there is a way to do it legally

To answer that, no, game throwing is still game throwing and to do it a number of times just to lower your score is still gross abuse of the game. There is no "legal point dumping".

[ljex]

Game 9117000...manual freestyle really you are going to say that is game throwing when he stack attacks and the game is over before i take my second round turn

Game 9085510
2011-05-17 23:01:44 - Turu2001 assaulted Northumberland from Cumberland and conquered it from ljex
2011-05-17 23:01:50 - Turu2001 assaulted Durham from Cumberland and conquered it from ljex
2011-05-17 23:01:53 - Turu2001 assaulted Westmorland from Cumberland and conquered it from ljex
2011-05-17 23:01:55 - Turu2001 assaulted Lancashire from Westmorland and conquered it from ljex
2011-05-17 23:01:56 - Turu2001 assaulted Derby (Derbyshire) from Lancashire and conquered it from ljex
2011-05-17 23:02:01 - Turu2001 assaulted Notts (Nottinghamshire) from Derby (Derbyshire) and conquered it from ljex
2011-05-17 23:02:03 - Turu2001 assaulted Leicestershire from Notts (Nottinghamshire) and conquered it from ljex
2011-05-17 23:02:24 - Turu2001 assaulted Warwickshire from Leicestershire and conquered it from neutral player
2011-05-17 23:02:32 - Turu2001 assaulted Oxford (Oxfordshire) from Warwickshire and conquered it from ljex
2011-05-17 23:02:39 - Turu2001 assaulted Bucks (Buckinghamshire) from Oxford (Oxfordshire) and conquered it from ljex
2011-05-17 23:02:47 - Turu2001 assaulted Gloucs (Gloucestershire) from Oxford (Oxfordshire) and conquered it from ljex
2011-05-17 23:03:05 - Turu2001 reinforced Somerset with 3 troops from Gloucs (Gloucestershire)
2011-05-17 23:03:12 - Turu2001 reinforced Dorset with 1 troops from Somerset
2011-05-17 23:03:16 - Turu2001 ended the turn and got spoils

enough said considering he did that and took my entire stack

Game 9085720
Not really sure how this is me trying to lose the game i happened to have my stack far away from his bonus...and i tried to attack there dice eventually failed and then he clearly won as a result.

Game 9108521
You must be shitting me if you think i intentionally lost to my best friend who i just convinced to come to this site when we are two of the most competitive people ever with each other and strategy games. If that is not enough that was after we just went to a party. If you are commenting about me attacking a bunch on my second turn it was because i failed to take a single region on my first turn and then he got a bonus with protection and me to 11 regions. There was no way i could win that game at that point so why would i bother to prolong the inevitable.

Game 9108506 see above

Game 9108494 really, i lost one big attack in this game trying to break his bonus and had 2 pair...also you can feel free to contact bigpoppa and ask if i let him win those games...we were sitting right next to eachother playing those games. Im sure you can see that from the IP checks if you run them that we were on the same network.

Clearly a few things happened here...for one the first 3 games you listed are manual so you might want to play a few games before you decide to accuse me of intentionally losing when all of them were decided before my second round turn or on that turn as a result of bad dice

Also the other 3 listed are when i was already low major captain against my best friend who as i said is someone i am very competitive with. Anyway why would i decide to intentionally lose games when i have already made it all the way down to low major/captain? Not to mention the fact that i was not sober and neither was he, im sure you can find a lot of bad moves from both of us even me in the games i win if you really look but i can assure you i was not trying to lose them in the slightest.

If you choose to keep this warning its fine but know that you have made a huge mistake...its actually funny that you list the first three games...they are not even close to thrown games and only serve to show that people are right when they say you lack game knowledge.

"Soon after the last of my quads oasis games start and finish im going to play a bunch of 1 vs 1 games and let my rank slide as low as it can while i still try to win every game. Im guessing if i play really simple maps 1 vs 1 and a bunch of assdoodles i can get down to 1500 or so..."

viewtopic.php?p=3167190#p3167190

And also the game chat from Game 9092482.

ljex: legally point dumping
ljex: im going to see how low i can get for a few reasons
ljex: 1) to stick it to the mods after they banned commander for point dumping to show them that there is a way to do it legally

To answer that, no, game throwing is still game throwing and to do it a number of times just to lower your score is still gross abuse of the game. There is no "legal point dumping".

you must not understand what i mean by legal point dumping...i mean playing games that will result in me losing points. Oh and i haven't made it down to 1500 probably because I'm playing games to win and win enough to stay at low major from all the 1 vs 1's i play. Oh and nice to see that you stalked my games enough to find that im going to stick it to the mods quote...it must be nice to know that you are sticking it to me as a result of that...

[dwilhelmi]

To answer that, no, game throwing is still game throwing and to do it a number of times just to lower your score is still gross abuse of the game. There is no "legal point dumping".

I am confused. He picked games knowing there was a decent chance of losing. I pick games in which there is a decent chance of winning. It is still just game selection. How did he throw a game? Do I throw games when I pick them based off of odds of winning?

throw a game
Fig. to lose a game on purpose.
See also: game, throw

This is the definition that I, and everybody else I know, has for throwing a game. Can you please tell us what your definition is?

There is no "legal point dumping".

I think that this is the true heart of the matter. He said something that got under your skin, and so you had to find something to charge him with just to prove him wrong. If Luke wants to play high-risk games, that should be his right, no matter how annoyed you are by it.

[Bruceswar]

First time reading this thread... All I got to say is this might be one of the few times me and ljex agree. This case is totally out of line if you ask me and ljex just simply got tired of playing Oasis quads and other freestyle games. Shockingly this case was look at all wrong if you ask me. Just because someone looses points does not mean they are point dumping. Just means he is playing games like I am doing right now which are either A) new maps and learning, B) Medal hunting or C) just games for the hell of it and not worrying about how many points you will win or lose. Now not to throw any mods under the bus, but this ruling just is not right on so many levels.

[SirSebstar]

......
I am confused. He picked games knowing there was a decent chance of losing. I pick games in which there is a decent chance of winning. It is still just game selection. How did he throw a game? Do I throw games when I pick them based off of odds of winning?

........

Try reading again. Apparently King A spotted Ljex remarks about dropping rank, and then looked at games and found games he considers to be.. fraudulent as in KA thinks Ljex intentionally lost or tried to lose games including but not limited to the games mentioned.
Ljex responded with stating that they are manual games where the game was already effectivly over by round 2 or he was drunk, either way, he did not pick those games to loose, it just happened to be so.

I still think this should have been handled via the e-ticket Ljex. As I see it, Ljex has not been the best he can be, he has knowledge of manual and much more in freestyle, so he should know that you must always try to fight back for the win, maybe the dice will kill the other player for 3 turns.. or whatever. Just sitting back might be acceptable if you did not announce your rank dropping before, but this does make it fishy. I don't say i totally agree with the call for a warning, because thats just not my job. But i can understand both sides. Ljex just have to accept there are ways to draw attention to yourself, and then you should not be surprised if they look with some more attention at your cases, even if in the end it might be reversed.. After all, mods are people too (shocked!) and nobody is out just to get you!

[lord voldemort]

i think ljex...as well as most of the players have a better understanding of the game than a good majority of mods especially admin

[ljex]

......
I am confused. He picked games knowing there was a decent chance of losing. I pick games in which there is a decent chance of winning. It is still just game selection. How did he throw a game? Do I throw games when I pick them based off of odds of winning?

........

Try reading again. Apparently King A spotted Ljex remarks about dropping rank, and then looked at games and found games he considers to be.. fraudulent as in KA thinks Ljex intentionally lost or tried to lose games including but not limited to the games mentioned.
Ljex responded with stating that they are manual games where the game was already effectivly over by round 2 or he was drunk, either way, he did not pick those games to loose, it just happened to be so.

I still think this should have been handled via the e-ticket Ljex. As I see it, Ljex has not been the best he can be, he has knowledge of manual and much more in freestyle, so he should know that you must always try to fight back for the win, maybe the dice will kill the other player for 3 turns.. or whatever. Just sitting back might be acceptable if you did not announce your rank dropping before, but this does make it fishy. I don't say i totally agree with the call for a warning, because thats just not my job. But i can understand both sides. Ljex just have to accept there are ways to draw attention to yourself, and then you should not be surprised if they look with some more attention at your cases, even if in the end it might be reversed.. After all, mods are people too (shocked!) and nobody is out just to get you!

Um...you should know its not wroth my time to try and fight back in those first 3 games especially as i never would have won by the time i stopped trying. Just one example from that list but in england...what am i supposed to do when i have 1 troop per region 3/4 to deploy and my opponent is due 20+?

Also 2 examples of similar cases one of which i brought to KA about this same thing that were not ruled point dumping/game throwing

LMS/Tdans - this seemed clear at the time but tdans to my knowledge was found innocent of game throwing
Game 7839044
Game 7839045
Game 7839046
Game 7839047
Game 7839048

Alching - Look especially at the first two games, i brought this to KA right away and if i remember correctly alching was not even given a warning for any of this.
Game 8145051
Game 8145052
Game 8145090
Game 8145091

[AAFitz]

These are the sample games:

Game 9117000
Game 9085510
Game 9085720
Game 9108521
Game 9108506
Game 9108494

First, I would like to point out that this is a game throwing case and not point dumping, as ljex selected which games he would lose while try to win others. In this method, you won't be seen as a point dumper as you did not massively dropped your games, To throw some games to get into a certain score/rank that you are after, then it is game throwing.

The pm sent to jefjef to further show intention:

"Soon after the last of my quads oasis games start and finish im going to play a bunch of 1 vs 1 games and let my rank slide as low as it can while i still try to win every game. Im guessing if i play really simple maps 1 vs 1 and a bunch of assdoodles i can get down to 1500 or so..."

viewtopic.php?p=3167190#p3167190

And also the game chat from Game 9092482.

ljex: legally point dumping
ljex: im going to see how low i can get for a few reasons
ljex: 1) to stick it to the mods after they banned commander for point dumping to show them that there is a way to do it legally

To answer that, no, game throwing is still game throwing and to do it a number of times just to lower your score is still gross abuse of the game. There is no "legal point dumping".

Well, there is no way to legally point dumping, as you say, but thats because if you are trying to win all of your games, its not point dumping.

As far as choosing to play lots of assassin doodles when you have a high score, you cant possibly call that anymore point dumping than the people who always play assassin doodles, who have never had a high score.

If he was throwing games, I agree thats different, but thats pretty hard to prove definitively.

Id sure hate to have my moves in some of my games reviewed, because Ive made some moves that were so bad, its almost impossible to imagine I was trying to win.

"Soon after the last of my quads oasis games start and finish im going to play a bunch of 1 vs 1 games and let my rank slide as low as it can while i still try to win every game. Im guessing if i play really simple maps 1 vs 1 and a bunch of assdoodles i can get down to 1500 or so..."

There is technically nothing wrong with this. He doesnt say once that he will try to lose even a single game, only that he will choose to play them.

For example, I am going to join ten of these games right now. I am going to try to win every single one. I will lose hundreds of points statistically.

Will I be a point dumper for choosing these games.

If so, thats fine, but Ill sure as hell be a site dumper as well.

Seriously, I cant even believe this conversation and case has happened when this is what the bottom of the scoreboard looks like:

19529 results on 79 pages: << < Page 79 > >> #
# Username Score Games Completed Games Won Rank Medals Rating Country
19501 rettan 330 121 7 (6%) Cook Cook 0 4.7 United States United States
19502 bryoliver96 329 99 13 (13%) Cook Cook 2 3.9 United States United States
19502 mike12461 329 112 3 (3%) Cook Cook 0 4.7 Greece Greece
19504 chunk 325 577 43 (7%) Cook Cook 6 4.5 Cyprus Cyprus
19505 kralj matjaž 318 77 1 (1%) Cook Cook 0 4.8 Slovenia Slovenia
19506 Ganglelito 303 111 2 (2%) Cook Cook 0 4.6 Australia Australia
19507 Jeffery1975 302 66 0 (0%) Cook Cook 0 3.6 Canada Canada
19508 cowboy110685 297 228 25 (11%) Cook Cook 3 4.7 United States United States
19508 King Eduardo I 297 124 6 (5%) Cook Cook 0 4.6 United States United States
19510 jackfighter 295 111 7 (6%) Cook Cook 2 4.6 United States United States
19510 packernation7 295 148 25 (17%) Cook Cook 1 3.9 United States United States
19512 GonzWithBourbon 290 112 2 (2%) Cook Cook 2 4.7 United States United States
19513 Malaclypse2 288 179 9 (5%) Cook Cook 2 4.7 Canada Canada
19514 ediercks 276 100 3 (3%) Cook Cook 1 4.7 United States United States
19515 johnnieutah 273 179 14 (8%) Cook Cook 2 4.7 United States United States
19516 hartwood72603 266 227 10 (4%) Cook Cook 3 4.7 United States United States
19517 schwitzkroko 262 261 27 (10%) Cook Cook 4 4.6 Germany Germany
19518 Danger Mouse 261 344 18 (5%) Cook Cook 0 4.6 United Kingdom United Kingdom
19519 Bombersftw 235 108 5 (5%) Cook Cook 2 4.9 Australia Australia
19520 Blackhankycub 223 248 8 (3%) Cook Cook 1 4.6 United Kingdom United Kingdom
19521 Blind Nomad 219 204 10 (5%) Cook Cook 2 4.5 United States United States
19522 angratico 177 143 7 (5%) Cook Cook 0 4.5 Brazil Brazil
19523 mickd 176 300 2 (1%) Cook Cook 1 4.6 United Kingdom United Kingdom
19524 Marms 167 122 0 (0%) Cook Cook 0 3.6 United States United States
19525 Farmer1 121 252 17 (7%) Cook Cook 1 4.5 United States United States
19526 Manic Om 91 139 5 (4%) Cook Cook 0 4.7 India India
19527 Maggot 5 419 30 (7%) Cook Cook 5 4.7 United States United States
19528 albiestar 1 597 22 (4%) Cook Cook 3 4.5 United Kingdom United Kingdom
19528 HazardZero 1 179 1 (1%) Cook Cook 1 4.7 Canada Canada

You should be embarrassed for letting widespread point dumping go unchecked for years, which affects thousands of players when they join games and win silly amounts of points for simply breaking the rules, and not going after people who simply choose to play different games, which happen to result in lost points....or that seem to make moves that do not necessarily live up to your expectation of a good enough move in that situation. This list is even only the current one, and nothing is ever done about it. Instead, you spend time looking into the possibly not good enough moves of one player, who simply got tired of winning...which many of us do at times... its really hard to take it seriously, and not see extreme negligent bias here.

I actually fully agree that ilex should not have been so blatent about what he did, and if he threw games to friends, which I may very well have, then by all means he deserves it.

Further, it wouldnt even surprise me if he did...however, I dont think there is nearly enough proof of anything besides someone playing a game, and at worst, not playing as well as they possibly can, which realistically cant possibly be against the rules.

And be clear, I am not defending ilex here per se, as much as the rights of myself, and all players to choose our games as we see fit, as I have seen, conquer club was essentially based on that entire principle. I do not mean that it excludes cases of farming, which is entirely different.

In any case, I do believe, point dumping and game throwing is absolutely one of the biggest problems left on the site to address, and It would be refreshing to see efforts put in the actual location of the most point dumping, and it sure as hell isnt at the top of the scoreboard. Its on the pages of game throwers, and point dumpers, who are allowed to be point terrorists at will, and for years. The problem has been brought to your attention, many, many times, and for years, and yet instead of doing anything whatsoever, all this time has gone into the analysis, of a few moves in a few games of someone, essentially, because they had a lot of points at the time of playing.

[SirSebstar]

That does make sense fitz.
I think, ney i hope the verdict will be reversed.

[mkcummins]

i would think that in order to become conqueror you must choose your opponents very carefully and play the maps with the highest probability of winning where first turn and drops carry the least weight.

On a casino floor, Craps tables are the hardest game to find because it's the only game where you have even odds with the house. Yet, people still play BlackJack, where the house has the highest possible odds of cleaning you out.

seems to me that ljex suddenly took greater risk in his game / opponent selection and finally got sick of playing Craps. You cannot convince me that this is illegal or suspicious in any way.