too many team games

[DiM]

Well, nothing I can disagree on there... always fun debating with you DiM, and I mean that Now probably time for you to get some sleep mate, and for me to get some lunch!

bon apetitte mate.

i still have 45 minutes to work. then i'll go home and sleep

[naktay01]

DiM you can join my games any time. I usually start 5 or 10 a day.
But just like wacicha said about his games they fill up very quickly. Most of mine are no cards games.

[comic boy]

DiM
Whilst it is true that some players only play team games there are still many higher ranked ones who enjoy singles,perhaps 70% of my games for example are this format. Undoubtably the large majority of Captains + play private games but the reasons for this are well documented and they are easy enough to find.Let me know next time you are ready for a game and I shall forward an invite.

[comic boy]

I think this ALL boils down to the points system....Mosat of the higher ranked players only play triples adn doubles and they do this to sustain their ranking in the top flight...

I think Lack should take a good look at the scoring system and maybe make seperate scoreboards Singles and Doubles!!!

It is getting beyond a joke.............

What is getting beyond a joke is the amount of posts like this that simply do not reflect reality,I know for certain that half the players in the top 50 play singles regularly because they turn up in my games. I reckon there are about 1000 people higher placed than you who will currently be playing a singles game so what exactly are you basing your statements on ?

[jiminski]

Hello Hulmey,
I am nowhere near at the top of the scoreboard but am close enough to play some of the best players on here
(They are good sorts, in the main, and in fact most are willing to help with strategy advice etc etc.)

I play a good mix of both team and singles; enjoying a good cooperation with a couple of partners but also the freedom of the Singles.

I find that some at the top prefer singles, some prefer team games, some a mix.
Some play exclusively other high ranks, some set up games open to all, some do a mixture of both.
Some protect their points, some offer them up (Wacicha in particular) without question.. some do a mixture of both.

The reason for this rhythm-less diatribe is that it in some ways reflects the tedium which provokes it.

the thing is, that the upper section of the scoreboard reflects the total in diversity! However due to humankind's propensity to despise those at the top of any hierarchy, we get meaningless piffle and conspiracy theories.

Is society designed to keep those at the top at the top ... not really it is made up of a collection of divergent individuals protecting their progeny and using the existing system to their benefit.
some ill-equipped to use the system blame it.

I digress.. so what is your answer?
change the scoring system so there is less ability for the most successful to keep their points, thus making it more probable that the best play against the worst?

As much as i would like socialism to reign supreme it would be a little pointless to base the scoring mechanism in CC on it...

[jiminski]

DiM if you fancy a game just let me know.. i am on here way too much and you are likely to catch me.

Also, as Comic says you will always get a game in the 2k+ points in callouts.

[rebelman]

not to mention the singles games i found where full of cooks or cadets

don't higher ranked players play public singles games anymore?


PS: i repeat PUBLIC games. i know there are plenty of private ones.

My games of choice are 6 players stndard sequential, nearly all are public. I try and find games with the highest ranked players available and join those but over the last week only one major and a small handful of captains have been willing to risk their points with us peasants, low rankers and noobs in the public games. Here are the names of those brave elite players who are not hiding away in the safety of their private games:

Major:

Naktay01

Captains:

7Deep7Green 7
Poolshark *
Fag Ash
KLOBBER
Chuuuuck
pjdonald
mikeyreispsamac

*now lieutenant but was captain when he entered public games

Lieutenants:

Old Nick
Katholish
paws1610
omiceribrus
Godd
Ulrikp
rayray
lipsondavid
falagar

To those brave soldiers above I salute you, but I believe the facts here speak for themselves of the 587 players on cc at the moment with rank of lieutenant or higher only 17 (less than 3%) are brave enough to play public 6 player sequential games.

[rebelman]

If you think of it in sporting terms - the top teams in football play in the Premier League, or equivalent in their own country... you don't get Chelsea or Manchester United playing against fourth division teams like Grimsby or Peterborough - there just isn't the same level of competition and enjoyment that you get in an evenly balanced game.

Actually GK you do in cup competitions and friendlies. As someone new to this site I would love to be able to play against the best players in singles, it seems crazy that the only way I can do this is by becoming an elite player myself.

One obvious solution to this is 0 point friendly matches if these existed as they do in soccer as per your comparison above a low ranker noob like me could play top players like yourself, everyone could enjoy themselves and not be worried about points.

Likewise IMHO like Chelsea and Utd are obliged to play in cup games I would like to see a recommendation that the elite players on here commit to a certain % of public singles games. It would only be a recommendation because I believe noone should be forced into it especially those who only play team games but those elite players that play singles should join us in the public forum every so often. As I said in my last post I play almost entirely 6 player sequential standard singles and in the last week only 17 of cc top 587 have joined these games on the public forum. Honestly lads and lassies we don't bite and we actually can be fun to play with !!

[nagerous]

go to the tournaments section. You'll find a range of top players that you can play against there who put their points on the line like reptile and wild_tiger.

[TipTop]

Just because only 17 high ranked players have joined YOUR standard sequential games doesn't mean there are only 17 who play those games.

Those games are pretty much all I play and I am not on your list.

When I make games (which is most of the time) I make them as 6 player standard seq and public and I have played against many other high ranked players in those games that are not on your list!

If you can't see a game you want to join then make one. If it's a standard sequential game it will fill up fast and if you want to play players of a certain rank make it private and invite them.

At the end of the day whatever game you want to play is available to you no matter who you are or what rank you are. There is no problem here!

[RiskTycoon]

not this again!

[john1099]

not to mention the singles games i found where full of cooks or cadets

don't higher ranked players play public singles games anymore?


PS: i repeat PUBLIC games. i know there are plenty of private ones.

My games of choice are 6 players stndard sequential, nearly all are public. I try and find games with the highest ranked players available and join those but over the last week only one major and a small handful of captains have been willing to risk their points with us peasants, low rankers and noobs in the public games. Here are the names of those brave elite players who are not hiding away in the safety of their private games:

Major:

Naktay01

Captains:

7Deep7Green 7
Poolshark *
Fag Ash
KLOBBER
Chuuuuck
pjdonald
mikeyreispsamac

*now lieutenant but was captain when he entered public games

Lieutenants:

Old Nick
Katholish
paws1610
omiceribrus
Godd
Ulrikp
rayray
lipsondavid
falagar

To those brave soldiers above I salute you, but I believe the facts here speak for themselves of the 587 players on cc at the moment with rank of lieutenant or higher only 17 (less than 3%) are brave enough to play public 6 player sequential games.

You missed someone

[rebelman]

Just because only 17 high ranked players have joined YOUR standard sequential games doesn't mean there are only 17 who play those games.

Those games are pretty much all I play and I am not on your list.

When I make games (which is most of the time) I make them as 6 player standard seq and public and I have played against many other high ranked players in those games that are not on your list!

If you can't see a game you want to join then make one. If it's a standard sequential game it will fill up fast and if you want to play players of a certain rank make it private and invite them.

At the end of the day whatever game you want to play is available to you no matter who you are or what rank you are. There is no problem here!

TipTop I created none of these games ant the last thing I wanted to do is offend or exclude anyone, all I was doing was pointing out what I observed for clarity I will look at the last 7 days not just my observations but in their entirity and post here, I sspect besides yourself I will be adding very few additional names.

[john1099]

Why is a cadet chirping the vets?
Get some more points, then come see us.

[rebelman]

not this again!

A highly entertaining and thought provoking post, thanks RT for your input.

[RiskTycoon]

it has been beaten to death...over and over again...just as bad as all the dice threads out there....it gets old

[rebelman]

Why is a cadet chirping the vets?
Get some more points, then come see us.

John,
Apologies if I left you out as I said in my last post I wm checking ALL 6 player std. seq. in the last 7 days not just my observations.

Regarding your chirping the vets comment, I joined this site just like all of you and I have really enjoyed my time here so far. I hope to get more points but if I dont it does not bother me as I come here to enjoy the experience if my score and rank goes up thats a bonus if not c'est la vie. If you read my earlier post you wold realise I am strong advocate of 0 points games where points would not matter. At the end of the day john i'm not being critical of the elite I'm a fan and admirer of them and I would love the honour and privilege of playing them more which as a low ranker that plays public games my chances to do this are few and far between.

also john surely just because I have a low score and rank should not prevent me from expressing my opinion on something in the forums that is of interest to me, my opinion is surely of equal value to anyone from the lowest cook up to conqueror we are all equal members on here, even f we have different scores and ranks.

[rebelman]

it has been beaten to death...over and over again...just as bad as all the dice threads out there....it gets old

RT I'm only a member here for a month so it's new to me !! I share your opinion on the dice threads by the way.

[comic boy]

Rebelman

Lets get real here after 74 games you have 887 points which does not suggest you are a particularly talented player,yet you want or indeed expect to play against people with 2 or 3 times your score. Can you tell me whats wrong with advancing step by step and consequently getting to play slightly better players at each stage, thats what the rest of us did.
If you want to improve then it will happen by gaining experience at a realistic level not by taking on people who will relentlessly target you because of your lower level of skill and because they dont want to lose 60 points or more. Perhaps I am being cynical but it seems to me that what you really mean is that you dont think you are good enough or patient enough to rise through the ranks in the conventional manner. This being the case you reckon by risking 7 points a game and potentially winning 200 you can take a nice shortcut, nice idea but you have a damned nerve to criticise those who dont feel like joining your scheme.

[stringybeany]

....
If you want to improve then it will happen by gaining experience at a realistic level not by taking on people who will relentlessly target you because of your lower level of skill and because they dont want to lose 60 points or more. ....

^ What he said. Don't try and play too high above your rank. You won't even get the chance to improve your game at that level.

If you want to increase your skill and rank, always play in a point range between -100 and +300 of your current score.

Do so and you will progress upwards, clearly. (unless you are completely stupid, and I am of the opinion that this game does not appeal to stupid people, at least not for long!)

[rebelman]

Rebelman

Lets get real here after 74 games you have 887 points which does not suggest you are a particularly talented player,yet you want or indeed expect to play against people with 2 or 3 times your score. Can you tell me whats wrong with advancing step by step and consequently getting to play slightly better players at each stage, thats what the rest of us did.
If you want to improve then it will happen by gaining experience at a realistic level not by taking on people who will relentlessly target you because of your lower level of skill and because they dont want to lose 60 points or more. Perhaps I am being cynical but it seems to me that what you really mean is that you dont think you are good enough or patient enough to rise through the ranks in the conventional manner. This being the case you reckon by risking 7 points a game and potentially winning 200 you can take a nice shortcut, nice idea but you have a damned nerve to criticise those who dont feel like joining your scheme.

Comicboy,

I do not have a scheme as you suggest and I'm not trying to be critical of anyone. If I was so inclined why would I be advocating 0 point games. I am definitely patient enough to rise through the ranks whether I'm good enough only time will tell, the evidence so far would suggest probably not but as I already said more than once I have a huge admiration for the top players on here and all I was doing before this turned into something else was pointing out how rarely I see any of them in public games. I know the reasons for this and I am quite happy to play anyone at any level and if the only way someone like me gets to play one of the top players in singles is by becoming one myself I hope I get to play you all some day.

There is an element in me that is sorry I ever posted on this thread because I never wanted to offend anyone. I'm a fun player not a serious player and I hope to play as many opponents as I can of all levels be they cook or general, all I was doing by adding my opinion was highlighting that very few elite players seem to be in public games - I never expected this to offend anyone. As someone who is regularly in chat I often chat to your fellow top points scorers who visit there and I believe they in general find me friendly and in no way negative towards them because of their rank, I believe in chat at least we all have equal rank and score. I also like to post and comment on forums that catch my eye as this one did, if memory serves comic a few days ago on another thread I was complementing you on achieving your cc goal, surely that is not the behavior of someone looking for a fast track to glory or who has anything other than the greatest of admiration for our games top players.

I hope this has cleared things up because I joined cc to have some online fun and maybe make some new online friends if I have caused anyone offence or hurt anyone by my comments including you comic then this goes totally against why I joined here in the first place.

Rebelman.

[qeee1]

Most high ranking people want to protect their score. This is well known.

You can whine all you want about it but it won't stop them.

And the most insightful game I ever had was against someone about 800 points more than me at the time, though admittedly that was flat rate so it was easier to read.

[DiM]

@rebelman

when i joined CC i was exactly in your position. a new guy that wanted to play the top guns immediately. i didn't want to do it for points because they don't matter to me i simply wanted to do it for the challenge for the fun. having played risk with my friends for 10 years i considered myself a player that knew his way around the board and a rather tough opponent. unfortunately i later realized how the score system works and why top players don't want to risk their hard earned points. i even started devising new formulas for the score calculation to give an incentive to high rankers to play low rankers. nothing changed though. so i decided i must arm myself with patience and reach the top before i can ask high rankers to play with me. it wasn't easy but somehow i managed to get to almost 2200 points and i'm confident i will go even further perhaps not all the way to the top but to a level where i can keep a constant score and still play with good players.
i will probably plateau at 2500 points or perhaps i'm already plateauing at 2100-2200 i don't care. the point is there's no easy way to do it. you can't expect to join the site and play with blitz the very next day.

there are 2 ways to reach this goal:
1. team games vs teams of similar rank - takes longer but it's easier - win >50%
2. singles games vs 5 players of similar rank - fast advancement but it's harder - win >17%

i've personally chosen the second path. it suits me better because i have my own play style and i can't seem to function well in a team game. eaven though i have tried teaming with wild_tiger in an attempt to enter the world of doubles. total failure i lost points. many thanks to wild_tiger for risking his ass and teaming with me.

now i'm back to singles. all kinds of singles terminator standard 2 players 6 players no cards or escalating. i play anything just look at my games.

it can be quite a bitch sometimes when you lose 10 games in a row and drop 2-300 points but if you win 4-5 games you're up by 400 and it feels good.

if you want to rise quickly do this. start 10 6 player standard private games and invite only people with your rank or higher. win 2 of those games and you already have a profit. repeat until you reach #1.


PS: when i said team games are easier i didn't mean they are easy. they are damn tough and require a lot of skill especially when you reach higher score. i just meant it's easier to win a triples game than a 6p standard.

[comic boy]

Rebelman
I know you are a reasonable guy from previous posts so no I was not offended by what you said, exasperated perhaps that we were rehashing the same subject again thats all. What you need to realise is that there are 2 reasons for higher grades avoiding much lower grades,the points disparity and the percieved ability disparity. Pretty much everybody is happy to play those a couple of hundred points below them,im in games now with players 1000 + points lower, providing they know that their opponents are honourable and wont ruin the game with suicidal play or trash talk.
Consequently my tips are to take DiMs advice and set up private games with those one rank ahead,you will be surprised how quickly these fill up because people do prefer to play those of a similar standard and enjoy getting invites.Simply repeat this process and with reasonable improvement you will be surprised how quickly you can move ahead, get a reputation as a fair and solid player and you will also get invites yourself. Once you are 1600 points its reasonable to assume you will encounter a fair sprinkling of Captains then on and upwards until you reach your wall which is often just past 2000. At that point though you will find that most of the top players will entertain you so really its not as tough as you think it is, get to 2000 and I will give you a game ok.

[rebelman]

Rebelman
I know you are a reasonable guy from previous posts so no I was not offended by what you said, exasperated perhaps that we were rehashing the same subject again thats all. What you need to realise is that there are 2 reasons for higher grades avoiding much lower grades,the points disparity and the percieved ability disparity. Pretty much everybody is happy to play those a couple of hundred points below them,im in games now with players 1000 + points lower, providing they know that their opponents are honourable and wont ruin the game with suicidal play or trash talk.
Consequently my tips are to take DiMs advice and set up private games with those one rank ahead,you will be surprised how quickly these fill up because people do prefer to play those of a similar standard and enjoy getting invites.Simply repeat this process and with reasonable improvement you will be surprised how quickly you can move ahead, get a reputation as a fair and solid player and you will also get invites yourself. Once you are 1600 points its reasonable to assume you will encounter a fair sprinkling of Captains then on and upwards until you reach your wall which is often just past 2000. At that point though you will find that most of the top players will entertain you so really its not as tough as you think it is, get to 2000 and I will give you a game ok.

Thanks for getting back on this comic im glad you think im a reasonable guy most people would agree with the exception of my ex. As a newbie I was unaware that this an age old argument on here i now know this only two well and will remember that before i start digging my next whole. Anyway thank you and the othrs for your replies and hopefully some time this century you ill be getting that PM from me about that game having passed the 2K mark, as of now passing 1K should be my priority if I was into scores watching.

Rebelman