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Alliances in three-player games

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Alliances in three-player games...

Poll ended at Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:35 am

 
Total votes : 0

Postby Rocketry on Sat Aug 11, 2007 3:23 pm

I GOT SERVED wrote:I'm currently in this situation (game# 713142)

I had to create an alliance to slow down yellow, who was controlling the game at that point in time. But the alliance was only on one border, and green had gotten driven off of that border, so I called it off.

In certain cases, alliances are necessary in order to cover your ass, as I had to do. So really there's no stopping people from doing it. You just need to work around it.


someone with sense....
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Postby Bijo on Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:34 am

alliances in 3 players game is good, i have a question for you all who thinks alliances in 3 players are lame,

You have about 5-6 nations on classic map, other weak guy has also someting like that, no cards game, unlimited , standard, and you have no continent, this strong guy has 2 continents and is fucking up always your bonus somehow and is getting stronger and stronger and you 2 realize that he is gonna win 100 % sure, so what would you do

a) I would be fer to strong player and do no alliances and lose my points
b) I would make alliance with strong player and eliminate this weak player
c) I would make alliance with weak player in order to weaken strong player

now, let's see what are you gonna say, i think we all know the answer, imagine if this is a tournament games semi finals... what would you do?
It's much more important how you deal with loses than with wins, because everyone can deal with wins, but only the greatest can deal with loses!
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Postby orange on Mon Aug 20, 2007 12:08 pm

I've played risk since I was a little kid...but usually with sub par players who only played for something to do. My background is the game "Diplomacy" which relies less on luck and more on negotiation and tactics. I truly do not understand the Conquer Club culture where I've seen many players purposely ignore the overwhelming board leader and not try to unite with smaller players to turn the tide. To me, it's the difference between certain death and a chance to win. Why not keep your chances open?

With Risk on Conquer Club, there are some major differences to Diplomacy. First and foremost, luck plays a huge role in Risk and a relatively minor role in Diplomacy. Second, (theoretically) the game of Risk does not end until someone wins while the game of Diplomacy does not always (and theoretically should very rarely) end in a win (solo victory).

However, the major principle remains the same. If you're the top dog on a board, you should be giving the little guys reasons not to gang up on you...either by playing favorites with them or by using the chat to convince them that the other guy is the benefactor of the alliance. If you're one of the smaller dogs, you should be rallying the troops so that you are not attacked and can become stronger.

In my opinion, a typical game of Risk should move through three stages...the first stage of jockeying for position and establishing strongholds on continents, eliminating players with poor draws or bad dice rolls...to the second stage of identifying a board leader and weaker players uniting to stop him. If the leader changes, the dynamics change in turn and new alliances are formed. What usually breaks this and ushers in the third phase of the game is when a large player or the largest small player attempts to make a play for the win (cashing in a big set, eliminating a small player, leaving their stronghold in order to do so) OR someone makes a very large mistake...finally, the game arrives at inevitability and capitulation....someone has advanced so far that it is almost mathematically certain that, even with terrible luck, they will not be defeated.

These games are the best to play in because they last longer and generally rely less on luck and more on strategy. If players are willing to concede defeat during the first phase of the game based on draw and dice rolls, why not just play high card low card??

Best recent example I have is the following...
http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=703789

Game moved into phase two with AceVentura (good draw, grabbed Aegean quickly...board leader from early on), myself (centered in the Peloponessus, fairly weak), wolfmaster (Starea Ellada - second most powerful), and darkhorse (Boreia Ellada - fairly weak). I encouraged the three of us to work together against Ace. Wolf decided to make a play for board leader and nearly succeeded. I played Wolf and Ace against each other for a while, hoping to build up my forces and become more powerful. Ace kept attacking me while Wolf didn't...so I sided with Wolf and played Kingmaker...when it was clear that I wouldn't win, I threw everything I had at Ace and willingly gave cards to Wolf. Wolf went on to win. Based on draw and luck, Ace should have won easily but I take some degree of pride knowing that I helped 'cost' him the win for not trying to work with me and continuing to attack me. Taking nothing away from Wolf of course...he played an excellent game and knew exactly what he was doing...plus, he won and I lost. I obviously didn't do a good enough job convincing Ace not to attack me.

In short, I enjoyed that game a hell of a lot more than one that I won without opposition.

Can anyone explain to me why this is not the kind of game you would want to play in?
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Postby Jove on Wed Aug 29, 2007 7:07 am

I don't think it's the type of game people are against, it's the degree that people go to to win even when they've lost like suicides and the such. Alliances are part of the game, but not part of war. Alliances are normally set in place before the war begins, not people making them when they know they'll lose and use it as a last ditch effort to try to win. Granted people change sides and what not. But, I think its the last ditch effort that screws over the person who tactically and strategically deserves the win.

I'm not saying I'm against alliances, cuz I'm not. I just think that's the reason people don't like them. When you get screwed over time and time again, you just get sick of people allying when you've proven you deserve the win
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Postby orange on Fri Aug 31, 2007 3:30 pm

By definition whoever "deserves" the win is the guy that won, for whatever reason...

It's like saying "I should have won, but the dice were horrible". Did you have more armies? Yes. Did you have a better position? Maybe. Did you have a better strategy? Maybe. Did you win? No. Therefore, you didn't deserve to win.

Same in the case of alliances, in my mind. If a small guy allied with another small guy, fought back, and ended up winning himself - he deserved to win!
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Postby killerkid037 on Tue Sep 11, 2007 3:21 am

I personally don't support alliances in 3 player games. There's nothing wrong with it, but in a way defeats the purpose of playing to win if people team up against you.

Common sense dictates that if you're trying to win you will attack the strongest player, so that you are still in with a chance, and thus without a need for alliances the strongest player is automatically the 'enemy'.

That's just how games work though, whoever wins obviously wins and more often than not they deserved it, if it wasn't the case, something's obvously wrong.
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