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If you were attacked in a similar fashion what would you do

 
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Postby chewyman on Sun Jun 10, 2007 7:46 am

TipTop wrote:Your wrong Chewyman. If this became common practice then ALL FFA games would become nothing more than a suicide fest with the winner being decided by who suicided on who.

We all would get hurt by this!

Anybody who uses suicides as the excuse for their low rank is just kidding themselves. I'm sure yosevuk, blitzaholic, johnnyrocketwhatever and well just about everybody on page one of the scoreboards has been suicided against when they first joined. That didn't stop them getting where they are today, nor should it stop you or me.
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Postby TipTop on Sun Jun 10, 2007 2:47 pm

Chewy, your still thinking in terms of ranks and points being the be all and end all when it's not. The integrity of the game itself is more important. I don't want games to be decided by who suicides on who. Most people don't give a fig about points and ranks. They just want to have a fun fair game and not have it ruined by someone like you.
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Postby chewyman on Sun Jun 10, 2007 5:05 pm

Sure, it's much more fun knowing that you only won because of 'civility' to noobs and not your own skill. :roll:

It's time people on the forums stopped making up lame arse rules about what you 'can' and 'cannot' do and just played the game.
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Postby Lev306 on Sun Jun 10, 2007 9:20 pm

the thing is though, did the player threaten to retaliate with full force if u attacked? because if he did then by attacking you were asking for it. if a player makes that kind of threat then he has to follow through with it.
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Postby Nameless One on Mon Jun 11, 2007 12:03 am

chewyman wrote:Sure, it's much more fun knowing that you only won because of 'civility' to noobs and not your own skill. :roll:

It's time people on the forums stopped making up lame arse rules about what you 'can' and 'cannot' do and just played the game.


Or maybe it's time for people to stop doing lame things that make u look like a a-hole so people can enjoy the game.
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Postby Cronus on Mon Jun 11, 2007 1:22 am

depends on whether or not it is a terminator game. If not, and it is early I strike back and leave all my other boudaries unguarded and fortify next to theirs. This probably explains why my score never gets very high.
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Postby andreweberman on Mon Jun 11, 2007 3:27 am

Lev306 wrote:the thing is though, did the player threaten to retaliate with full force if u attacked? because if he did then by attacking you were asking for it. if a player makes that kind of threat then he has to follow through with it.


no, no dicustion nor threats were made about the attack. I attempted a boarder truce with him first, but when he refused it seemed clear (for other reasons as well) he was perpairing to attack me. I struck first to neutralize the threat.
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Postby chewyman on Mon Jun 11, 2007 4:34 am

Nameless One wrote:
chewyman wrote:Sure, it's much more fun knowing that you only won because of 'civility' to noobs and not your own skill. :roll:

It's time people on the forums stopped making up lame arse rules about what you 'can' and 'cannot' do and just played the game.


Or maybe it's time for people to stop doing lame things that make u look like a a-hole so people can enjoy the game.

People enjoy winning. People enjoy playing by the actual rules rather than the rules set out by forum crybabies. People enjoy playing a game that isn't dictated by said crybabies.

Things like crying about losing make you look like "a a-hole", playing the game the way it was meant to be played doesn't.
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Postby TipTop on Mon Jun 11, 2007 5:52 am

This is starting to get confusing. There are two discussions here going on at once. Seen as this thread was originally about revenge attacks then maybe Chewy could start another thread entitled "Suiciding (and ruining the game) is ok to protect my precious rank thread" were we can flame you with out the confusion.
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Postby chewyman on Mon Jun 11, 2007 7:13 am

Feel free to post in the flame wars if you want to flame somebody. This forum is for actual discussions. I see no need to get personal, but perhaps you can't debate something without Ad Hominem arguments?
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Re: Revenge

Postby AAFitz on Mon Jun 11, 2007 7:32 am

andreweberman wrote:In a recent game (on world 2.1) I attacked a player in such a way effectively ensuring that he could not conceivably win the game. This attack did not however ensure my victory. So here is the question; if you were attacked in a similar fashion what would you do?


if i was completely taken out, and you did it...i would probably use the rest against you...not necessarilly attacking you with them, but baiting you into attacking me with them...and forcing your loss...thereby in subsequent games, you and the other people might be a little more cautious attacking me, which could give me the edge...

but this only really applies when im weak, and another weaker his me disproportionately...if he throws off the balance in the game...i just feel no responsibility to balance it back....but every situation is different

my main point...revenge to some degree is part of the game...its psychological warfare...the object is to get everyone else to attack each other....having them be afraid to attack you is very important...at the very least you dont want them to think you are a pushover, because then youll be attacked in every one of them
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Postby TipTop on Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:26 pm

You're right Chewyman there is no need to make this personal so I will, unlike you, refrain from calling people crybabies and A-holes. I am not here to dictate to you I am here to reason with you.

You want me to debate with you without any Ad Hominem arguments then ok, let me give it a crack.

Firstly we need to look at the reason(s) why we are here playing this game. We are here I presume because we enjoy the game of Risk or a game similar to it. For some that is were it begins and ends, collecting points and ranks are to them meaningless.

There is a second group who joined this site to play Risk AND collect Points/Ranks which I presume is the group you fall into. This group are effectively playing two games here, the game of Risk and the Scoreboard game.

I very much doubt there is a third group that only play for points and don't care about the game of Risk. If this group existed why would they play Risk when they could play tiddlywinks or a thousand other games that give out points and ranks for far less effort. I'm sure there are others who would add yet more reasons for playing here, Tournaments/maps/social interaction ect. What unites us all however is the game of Risk. So can we conclude from this that playing for points alone is not the be all and end all. We are all here to play a fun game of Risk too.

Do you agree with me so far?

Now all of these groups play together in harmony most of the time, as, most of the time, the scoreboard game and the Risk game are mutually compatible. You play to win and when you win, you pick up points, which is great for everyone. The problem begins however when players in the 2nd group, decide that they no longer have a realistic chance of winning the game of Risk. So therefore they decide to help the highest ranked player win by making suicidal attacks on a lower ranked player in the attempt to save points in the scoreboard game. Now you can see how the two groups clash.

So which group is right and which group is wrong? Does suiciding in a game of Risk spoil the game for everyone? If you accept that it does but don't care, then the rest of this post will be not worth reading. We have already established that the game of Risk is what unites us all and if you freely admit spoiling the game of Risk then you don't belong here. If however your of the view that suiciding does not spoil the game then please read on, maybe the rest of this post will help you change your mind.

You say we should play the game the way it was meant to be played. Then the way Risk is meant to be played is for all participants to play to win is this not correct?

Now lets say your a low ranked player in a FFA game. This game has been great fun to play, and you have played it well. You have used great strategy and tactics to increase your chances of winning and now your on the verge of victory. Then a high ranked player who wasn't even in the running decides to make a suicidal attack on you to effectively end your chances of winning. All your great play that led you to this point was for nothing and the game is effectively handed to another high ranked player who did not deserve to win. There is no strategy or tactic the low ranked player can employ to defend himself against the suicider, he is completely helpless. Now if this tactic were to become common place then all FFA games would come down to who suicided on who, no skill, just luck. The game would become a crapshoot and nothing more. You have effectively broken the game that unites us all for the sake of saving a few points!

Now you may say it is not against the rules to suicide on another player so alls fair and you would be partly right. The game we play here is based on the board game Risk which didn't hand out points and ranks so this situation never came up in the board game. The suiciding on players as a legitimate tactic is a recent phenomenon which is a by product of the scoreboard game. I'm sure Lackattack never realised this when making Ranks/Points so therefore never wrote any rules to stop it. As long as this practice doesn't become common place he probably never will but that doesn't make it right! Must we have this rule written down to stop you doing this?

Maybe Lack could make non ranked games and effectively separate us into two communities, is this what you want? Or maybe he could write the rule where suiciding is strictly forbidden. But what if sometimes a strategic move by one player to win the game is mistaken for a suicidal move? Escalation games in particular would suffer from this as often they have to risk everything in one almost suicidal move in order to eliminate another player and grab his cards, if they fall short would they be accused of suiciding? Do we really need to write rules to govern everything or can we just use our common sense!?

Let me give you another example of why it isn't right.

Imagine this Scenario. It is the last race of a Formula 1 Grand Prix season. Fernando Alonso is 9 points clear in the drivers championship Lewis Hamilton is 2nd and is the only one who can beat him. In order for Hamilton to win he has to pick up 10 points(win the race) and Alonso to finish outside the points. The race goes well for Hamilton. He drives superbly and is wining the race, in fact he is so far ahead that only a mechanical failure or an act of god can stop him from victory. Meanwhile Alonso is struggling. He has had an off day by his standards, making some costly errors which have left him trailing far behind and out of contention of even finishing in the points. Hamilton is so far ahead he is about to lap Alonso. Alonso sees him coming in his rear view mirror, he knows his chances of winning the drivers championship are slipping away so he decides to take matters into his own hands. He waits until Hamilton pulls alongside him then he deliberately crashes into the side of Hamiltons car taking both his and Hamilton's car out of the race thus securing the drivers championship. Now I ask you were Alonso's actions justified?

Sorry for the long post, I guess I had a lot to say :)
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Postby chewyman on Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:42 pm

Do you agree with me so far?

Dunno, can you reduce your post to dot points or something? I think you may be taking your risk a little too seriously. :?

Oh, and I didn't call you an 'a-hole' and a crybaby, for starters I never use the word 'a-hole', if I was to say it I would say arse hole, that was a direct quote from you and thus the ' on either side. I never called you a crybaby either, I was referring to a certain kind of forum member, if you want to associate with that kind fine, but it was in no way an attack on you personally.
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Postby TipTop on Tue Jun 12, 2007 3:34 am

Dunno, can you reduce your post to dot points or something? I think you may be taking your risk a little too seriously.


Can you not read sentences? It doesn't take long to read, you asked for a serious discussion and this forum is the place for it so at least give me the courtesy to read my post, it won't take long.

Oh, and I didn't call you an 'a-hole' and a crybaby, for starters I never use the word 'a-hole', if I was to say it I would say arse hole, that was a direct quote from you and thus the ' on either side. I never called you a crybaby either, I was referring to a certain kind of forum member, if you want to associate with that kind fine, but it was in no way an attack on you personally.


Firstly I never said you called me an A-hole i said you called other people A-hole and as I have never resorted to name calling in any of my posts (scroll up and check if you want, none of my posts are edited) then you did not quote me. As for the crybaby comment I didn't come on here to whine about it happening to me. For the record this has never happened to me and even if it did I would not come on here and whine about it. I would simply send the guy a negative feedback in order to warn others of his action and then stick him on my ignore list. Where I do draw the line though and cannot stay silent on this issue is when someone comes on to this thread, openly says he does this, thinks it's ok and encourages others to do the same thing. People voicing there objection to this under these circumstances I feel is quite reasonable.

So please do me the courtesy of reading my post
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Postby chewyman on Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:07 am

TipTop wrote:So please do me the courtesy of reading my post

No, it's nothing personal, I just don't care that much about an online game. When I said a serious debate I meant a paragraph or two. If I wanted to read a thesis I'd tell you.
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Postby TipTop on Tue Jun 12, 2007 6:02 am

It's hardly a thesis, it's a two minute read, you can't spare two minutes? Ok nevermind I guess serious discussions don't take place in discussion threads after all. Why bother coming here?
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Postby MeDeFe on Tue Jun 12, 2007 6:08 am

chewyman wrote:I'll put my fingers in my ears and go LALALALALA! I CAN'T HEAR YOU!

On a more serious note: don't complain if you get what you ask for.
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Postby Rocketry on Tue Jun 12, 2007 6:32 am

i was in a game yesterday where we got to a 3 - player stalemate. One guy just bunched up all his men and saidhe would suicide on the next person to attack him. Rather than conforming to his blackmail - i destroyed him, losing the game myself of course.
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