Abuse of power

[jpcloet]

My experience was that Masli was a great hunter and a great Clan Director. It's unfortunate that he got caught in a conflict of interest. Even if there was no intent, this appears like a should have known better situation.

[owenshooter]

Think about the alternative. If there were no multi-hunters (I'm sure it takes some time to train), then there would be many more cheaters getting away with it. That is also bad for the site and the game and unfair to honest players.

i'm pretty sure if they asked someone to come out of retirement to help during this time, they wouldn't have a problem with finding at least 1, 2 or more. "well, since we only have 2 patrol officers we can only convict one of them for this scandal and act as if the other one only did it a few times and has learned his lesson. i mean, not having an officer on the beat would be unthinkable!!" not continuing or disclosing the full masli situation is chicken shit and sweeping the rest under the rug is troubling. i feel bad for the good mods out there that actually do their job and are now going to have to deal with forever being suspect due to the actions of a few and the lack of action by the admins. this place is not what it used to be... this feels worse than Wicked...-el Jesus negro

[aad0906]

My experience was that Masli was a great hunter and a great Clan Director. It's unfortunate that he got caught in a conflict of interest. Even if there was no intent, this appears like a should have known better situation.

Well said.

[The Voice]

The new ruling on how multi-hunters must not bust people they are playing in active games is a step in the right direction, but I'm thinking there should be a little more oversight, even at the expense of efficiency. All of this evidence calls into question whether those busted were really multis, which means anyone here who is against eye84free might see themselves banned permanently by him for voicing their opinions. I'm not saying this has happened or even that it will happen, but we need a restriction prohibiting something like this so that it's deemed illegal right from the start. Let's all try to be proactive in our attempts to productively change the site for good.

My suggestion: no fewer than two mutli-hunters should bust a specific player before he/she gets the perma-ban.

Dukasaur, you say that the people crying foul aren't looking for a reasonable explanation. Have you given them one? Has anyone given them one?

[GeneralRisk]

The new ruling on how multi-hunters must not bust people they are playing in active games is a step in the right direction, but I'm thinking there should be a little more oversight, even at the expense of efficiency. All of this evidence calls into question whether those busted were really multis, which means anyone here who is against eye84free might see themselves banned permanently by him for voicing their opinions. I'm not saying this has happened or even that it will happen, but we need a restriction prohibiting something like this so that it's deemed illegal right from the start. Let's all try to be proactive in our attempts to productively change the site for good.

My suggestion: no fewer than two mutli-hunters should bust a specific player before he/she gets the perma-ban.

Dukasaur, you say that the people crying foul aren't looking for a reasonable explanation. Have you given them one? Has anyone given them one?

Very well said.

[Dukasaur]

Dukasaur, you say that the people crying foul aren't looking for a reasonable explanation. Have you given them one? Has anyone given them one?

I gave one plausible explanation here:
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=239&t=160694&start=45#p3520114
Of course it was met with howls of derision from the haters, who don't want to hear about anything that doesn't result in someone being pilloried. But ultimately, it's not my job to figure out what happened, any more that it's the job of some random person in Dallas to tell us who really killed Kennedy. I posted that just to show how easy it is to come up with a plausible explanation if you start from the premise that the guy was doing his job, instead of starting from a premise that he wasn't.

[Army of GOD]

Dukasaur, you say that the people crying foul aren't looking for a reasonable explanation. Have you given them one? Has anyone given them one?

I gave one plausible explanation here:
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=239&t=160694&start=45#p3520114
Of course it was met with howls of derision from the haters, who don't want to hear about anything that doesn't result in someone being pilloried. But ultimately, it's not my job to figure out what happened, any more that it's the job of some random person in Dallas to tell us who really killed Kennedy. I posted that just to show how easy it is to come up with a plausible explanation if you start from the premise that the guy was doing his job, instead of starting from a premise that he wasn't.

WAT

This logic is akin to...a cop sets up a drug dealer. Then, instead of bringing the drug money to the station, the cop keeps it for himself.

[drunkmonkey]

This logic is akin to...a cop sets up a drug dealer. Then, instead of bringing the drug money to the station, the cop keeps it for himself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbole

I'm sure if there was a way for the mods to turn in the 4 points after the game, they would have. Then again, maybe they were in fact doing it for the glory of increasing their ranks...if everyone's wildest conspiracies are true, how many points were "stolen"? 200? 300 max? I'm actually laughing out loud reading some of these responses about the site going to hell, and how many premium members will be lost over this.

[lindseyland78]

I will say something similar to what I said in the C&A forum and then leave it as is unless someone can truly negate my argument.
I will go ahead and put my argument in standard format so its easy to follow for those of you who have taken a argumentation of logic class.

1. Everyone who has commented on this thread or in others like it, along with the majority of people on the site are unhappy with either [a]a particular mod or [b] a rule or regulation that is or is not fairly enforced or in and of its self unfair.
2. Those people listed above believe that something should be done about the problem they have immediately and to the extent that they expect it to be handled based on their own personal opinion or they won't be happy.
3. The mods could never address and meet the varying views of everyone on the site and still make the rules and regulations unified.
Therefore,
4. No matter what the outcome, not everyone is going to be happy with what is decided.

Lets talk about opinions for a second,
What is fair? Who decides what is fair? Is there a written list of things that are fair and unfair that are fact and not opinion that all can look upon and agree? If one person judges something to be fair, and another doesn't believe it is, who is correct?

Does the answer lie in the majority? Is it fair to say that?
The majority of people in the 1700s believed slavery was fair.
The majority of people in the 1600s believed their neighbors were witches and killed them for it.
The majority of Germany during WWII believed that it was fair to commit genocide.
The majority of people in the years before the 1900s believed that women could not be a mans equal.
Shall I continue? Majority ruling is not always fair, because normally the small, disadvantage portions get screwed.

Let's talk about CC for a minute.
You choose to register.
When you did you were told the rules in the tab that said rules.
You decided that those rules were good enough for you the work with and decided to play and enjoy what CC had to offer.
At some point you believe the the CC community, either a mod or a rule was unfair to you or others.
You believe change must be made or else the site has lost integrity in your eyes.
However while you complain and take stabs at mods, you continue to use the same features you enjoyed before.
You threaten that if you don't see improvement you will leave, or you believe others will causing CC to loss money.
Obviously you are all still here, because you like the benefits CC does offer.

So here seems to be the ultimatum:
Either [a] you are too disgusted by what you have discovered and only drastic change will keep you on the site, in which case you might as well leave because of what I have explained above, you will never get exactly what you want because it will not make everyone happy no matter what you believe. Or [b] you see error, state not just your grievances but possible logical solutions that you think would benefit the entire CC community and continue enjoying the benefits CC brings.

There are too many individual problems and issues that involve very complex and time consuming changes to please everyone here and even when it changes there will always be some that find new things that need to be change. This is called progress, some people frown upon it. I do not, I simply feel that the only way for it to be done correctly is through a reasonable and productive way.

Here are the main issues that seem to be causing the most duress:
[a]Multi-hunters could have the unfair advantage of busting those they play games with to gain points.
[b]Some of the mods do not regulate in a "fair" fashion

Possible solutions:
[a]No points awarded to any players playing in a game with someone that is kicked. It will never be an issue again.
[b]Bring in a rule of appeals, if you are not happy with a ruling given by a certain mod, you can appeal to have it be view by another mod, not of your choosing, a maximum of two times (three strikes your out). However this would be with the understanding that mods are busy and have other responsibilities and that it might take more time than you want and if it does, understand that the prior ruling stands until a new one is given.

These feel "fair". But that's just me. If you disagree or find an error of logic in any of my posts please address them in a reasonable fashion

[Great-Ollie]

This logic is akin to...a cop sets up a drug dealer. Then, instead of bringing the drug money to the station, the cop keeps it for himself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbole

I'm sure if there was a way for the mods to turn in the 4 points after the game, they would have. Then again, maybe they were in fact doing it for the glory of increasing their ranks...if everyone's wildest conspiracies are true, how many points were "stolen"? 200? 300 max? I'm actually laughing out loud reading some of these responses about the site going to hell, and how many premium members will be lost over this.

I see why you guys are number one in the rankings, you defend your own even though they are the biggest cheaters CC has seen in some time, i can respect that. Seriously not a diss, at least KORT is defending masli and not throwing him under the bus even though he was a sneaky, corrupt moderator, does not make him a bad guy.

[Bones2484]

Anybody who knows Masli at all knows he is by the books all the time.

I thought we ended the "anybody who knows so-and-so" defense after the InsomniaRed debacle?

[drunkmonkey]

This logic is akin to...a cop sets up a drug dealer. Then, instead of bringing the drug money to the station, the cop keeps it for himself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbole

I'm sure if there was a way for the mods to turn in the 4 points after the game, they would have. Then again, maybe they were in fact doing it for the glory of increasing their ranks...if everyone's wildest conspiracies are true, how many points were "stolen"? 200? 300 max? I'm actually laughing out loud reading some of these responses about the site going to hell, and how many premium members will be lost over this.

I see why you guys are number one in the rankings, you defend your own even though they are the biggest cheaters CC has seen in some time, i can respect that. Seriously not a diss, at least KORT is defending masli and not throwing him under the bus even though he was a sneaky, corrupt moderator, does not make him a bad guy.

How did I know someone (ollie or deere specifically) was going to ignore the bold part above and pretend I was defending someone I believed cheated. The point wasn't "it's not that bad", the point was "you all need to calm down, because even if what you say is true, you sound like crazed maniacs". Same as with any high-profile case on this site, everyone wants to play judge, jury, & executioner, and pretend they have all the facts. That's the last time I unhide one of your posts, because I'm tired of reading the same drivel.

Btw, we're number one in the rankings because we keep winning. Has nothing to do with forum antics. Maybe once you learn that, the puppies will earn a few more medals.

[Great-Ollie]

These puppies are 9 and 0, we don't know how to lose, after Empire do you care to give us a try?

[The Voice]

Dukasaur, you say that the people crying foul aren't looking for a reasonable explanation. Have you given them one? Has anyone given them one?

I gave one plausible explanation here:
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=239&t=160694&start=45#p3520114
Of course it was met with howls of derision from the haters, who don't want to hear about anything that doesn't result in someone being pilloried. But ultimately, it's not my job to figure out what happened, any more that it's the job of some random person in Dallas to tell us who really killed Kennedy. I posted that just to show how easy it is to come up with a plausible explanation if you start from the premise that the guy was doing his job, instead of starting from a premise that he wasn't.

Ah, thank you. I see what you mean.

[GeneralRisk]

Dukasaur, you say that the people crying foul aren't looking for a reasonable explanation. Have you given them one? Has anyone given them one?

I gave one plausible explanation here:
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=239&t=160694&start=45#p3520114
Of course it was met with howls of derision from the haters, who don't want to hear about anything that doesn't result in someone being pilloried. But ultimately, it's not my job to figure out what happened, any more that it's the job of some random person in Dallas to tell us who really killed Kennedy. I posted that just to show how easy it is to come up with a plausible explanation if you start from the premise that the guy was doing his job, instead of starting from a premise that he wasn't.

Ah, thank you. I see what you mean.

Sorry sport, but the simple truth is the MH does not need to join a game to run a check on a multi or to 'spring a trap' such as that postulated in your theory. As for the 'room mate' defence it is just as plausible for a room mate, Player B, to say "Hey, log off will you coz I have turns to play on my account" and thus immediately log in after Player A. Consecutive log-ins from the same IP in a brief space of time therefore do not constitute proof of a multi at work, however it may be evidence. It then falls upon the MH to correlate the two accounts and look for suspicious activity - possibly one of the most onerous tasks that befall them due to the 'room mate' defence.

Best site rule to overcome this would be to say "No two freemiums may operate from the same IP address", thereby stimulating membership and/or preventing the most common occurrence of a freemium multi for whom 4 games simply isn't enough. Tough for genuine room mates who are freemiums, but then I'm sure they could club together and afford 1 premium between them.

And my earlier remark was merely a light-hearted riposte and not an ad hominem attack at all. I'd hoped you above all would have seen it as such.

Respect.

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[owenshooter]

how many points were "stolen"? 200? 300 max? I'm actually laughing out loud reading some of these responses about the site going to hell, and how many premium members will be lost over this.

if the number is so few, then why doesn't CC air the numbers? why don't they tell us how many 1v1 games Masli won due to this practice. he won 40% of his last 86 games this way. does this sound like something he had just started to do or something he was so comfortable doing that he no longer tried to hide it? and as far as eye84free, the logic of "he only did it a few times and didn't know it was wrong," is ludicrous. laugh all you want, but they tainted the scoreboard and nothing happened to them. this is one of the biggest cheating scandals in CC history and the admins failed to truly address or deal with it.-el Jesus negro

[jj3044]

Are you all going to seriously re-hash the same arguments over and over and over and over again?

We get the different stances, and small forward progress is all we can hope for. Can everyone agree to disagree and move on?

[JoshyBoy]

Are you all going to seriously re-hash the same arguments over and over and over and over again?

We get the different stances, and small forward progress is all we can hope for. Can everyone agree to disagree and move on?

Yes, they are. It's what they do.

Therefore, no they can't all just agree to disagree and move on because they are afraid the universe might implode if they upset the status quo.

[GoranZ]

I see C&A team are looking for new members... I wonder which honorable player would join them since their honor is disputed by CC community (according to their own investigation they haven't done anything wrong)

Maybe they expect that the new blood will dilute the problems.

[nebsmith]

not by the CC community GoranZ, only some of them.

[GoranZ]

not by the CC community GoranZ, only some of them.

I'll clarify... majority of CC community

[nebsmith]

not by the CC community GoranZ, only some of them.

I'll clarify... majority of CC community

You have taken a poll then ?

[GeneralRisk]

not by the CC community GoranZ, only some of them.

I'll clarify... majority of CC community

You have taken a poll then ?

I believe anybody in the cc community with any common sense believes like GoranZ

[Evil Semp]

not by the CC community GoranZ, only some of them.

I'll clarify... majority of CC community

You have taken a poll then ?

I believe anybody in the cc community with any common sense believes like GoranZ

Common sense and CC mix together like vinegar and water.

[GoranZ]

not by the CC community GoranZ, only some of them.

I'll clarify... majority of CC community

You have taken a poll then ?

Count how many players posted on all the threads concerning the issue, then count how many players defended some of C&A members(I think that they were 4-5). The ratio will be similar with the poll, thus we don't need a poll...
Over 90% support can be noticed from very long distances.