Risk Snobbery

[KoE_Sirius]

It was different in The Zone...We could be playing 5 hours and then we get some clown leave and destroy the game,because it would freeze...That wasnt snobbery.
KoE_Lion always used to let anyone join his games thats how I joined KoE.
I always let new people join too.

[Genghis Khan CA]

Nice post by the way AA-Fitz. most of what you say may indeed have some truth in it. But if you look at the games played by your 100 or so elite. You will find that most of them are escalating or freestyle. And we all know why people play them. I myself hate both types of settings thus never play them. I play risk how it is meant to be played!

The original rules of risk are escalating

Escalating in singles is a very skillful game type with no cheap tricks (in sequential anyway)... not sure what you are implying here. I can understand you trying to make a point about freestyle but not escalating cards in general.

Some players have no idea how to play escalating singles, however that is true of every game type.

[kingprawn]

I am more than happy to let anyone join my games. However I play sequential standard or terminator on the classic map. I don't really understand freestyle and the way that certain players abuse the system puts me off trying to learn. Its taken me six months to get to Captain which isn't too bad to say my win rate is only 27%. I've never played against any high rankers either, maybe they consider Lt's and Captains to be lower pond life.

[AAFitz]

Very well said Rebel...Lets take a look at the clans for example. THOTA only accept players with a certain amount of points into their clan and if you field a player below 1800 points in a clan challene..Well OMG, you've had it. Their players start throwing hissy fits, much like a school girl when you have stolen her barbie doll from her.

At the untouchables clan the council will only accept players on different critea. But we would never refuse a person entry based on how many points they. That indeed would be snobbery!

However, if there is a clan challenge we do have 6 or 7 Major's we can could pull out of the hat for a rumble in the jungle!

That is not snobbery... it really isnt... im not saying there is no element of it, but the choice is based on every player in the clan having 2000, and most having 2500 or more. Thota is not afraid of the challenge, we simply dont want to play 40 games at 40 points each. It would necessarily mean we lose points, win or lose the challenge, so we set it at 1800, which is very fair I think. We all individually play lower ranks, and I myself offered to play two entire clans on 1v1 each, and when I calculated my anticipated loss, all of the horses offered to chip in and help me out. No one ever took me up on the offer, inexplicably, but the point is, it wasnt an elitist decision, it was one of point preservation, and perhaps setting the bar higher to inspire some intense competition. Thota, while we have all admitted a mistake here or there, has been great for this site. It just makes you want to beat them.... i say them, because thats exactly what I wanted to do when it was established before I joined.

Anyways... Sirius, i purposely posted a bit over the top, because I felt you were generalizing a bit too much, essentially calling all higher ranks snobs, when it simply isnt true. But your responses have been extremely controlled, and I think theres obviously a middle ground here. Sure there are snobs, sure there are cheaters, abusers, absolute insane players, but labeling a whole group, is just unfair, because those poor guys and gals in the upper ranks are the minority here.

[KoE_Sirius]

What is an upper rank?.Coz this subject relates to all ranks above a chef really.I mean I suppose a chef could say I wont play you majors,but I doubt it.If he did then he would be a Risk Snob.
Thx for you thoughts AAFitz...I don't think you was OTT.

[RiskTycoon]

i don't play players with the letter Q in there name and if their points divided by their posts doesn't calculate to less than 0

I always have something of quality to add to the conversation don't ya think? lol

[EmperorOfDaNorth]

I agree with the original poster.

More people should be playing games open to anyone.

Just like in real life: You don't get to pick your opponents, your opponent (or circumstance) picks you!

I've so far never joined private games other than those organized by friends for my specific group of friends..

But it's rare to see ranks above Captain in public games. Even Captains are relatively few.

BUT, I'm not complaining! I LIKE playing games that are a mix. I sometimes consciously seek out games with a 'known idiot' in it, especially if I can join in sequence immediately after the idiot. It gives me a strategic advantage, because others may not know the player is a fool and try to build something near the fool, only for the fool to 'cash & kamikaze'.. then I'm in the next turn to mop up the mess.

Ok, in the near future I'd like to play SOME games with only high ranking players just to see what it's like.. But I'll always keep playing the regular public games.

[Herakilla]

i always start my games and people join, ive had several 5-6 player games that majors and captains have joined right after me

[AAFitz]

I agree with the original poster.

More people should be playing games open to anyone.

Just like in real life: You don't get to pick your opponents, your opponent (or circumstance) picks you!

I've so far never joined private games other than those organized by friends for my specific group of friends..

But it's rare to see ranks above Captain in public games. Even Captains are relatively few.

BUT, I'm not complaining! I LIKE playing games that are a mix. I sometimes consciously seek out games with a 'known idiot' in it, especially if I can join in sequence immediately after the idiot. It gives me a strategic advantage, because others may not know the player is a fool and try to build something near the fool, only for the fool to 'cash & kamikaze'.. then I'm in the next turn to mop up the mess.

Ok, in the near future I'd like to play SOME games with only high ranking players just to see what it's like.. But I'll always keep playing the regular public games.

captains pw sent.... I love public games, and a quick search shows I join plenty, but there is absolutely no question that a game full of captains plays out differently than many open games, especially escalating games, which are litterally sometimes a completely different game when open. With all captains, almost all play conservative, and wait for oportunities. In open games, invariably a player or two will aim for bonuses very early and change they dynamic of the game completely..sometimes it even works, but it is a different type of game, and no one should apologize for prefering one over the other.

[rebelman]

We all individually play lower ranks, and I myself offered to play two entire clans on 1v1 each, and when I calculated my anticipated loss, all of the horses offered to chip in and help me out.

AA I think I explained to you the reason why that challenge against KoE 1 v 1 never went ahead -I'm surprised you are bringing it up again now I think its unfair making generalisations as I said in earlier posts I would say that is true of the members of your clan as anyone.

Some of the friendliest people I have encountered on this site are current/former members of your clan. However some have made it very clear they would never play me because of my score, I don't see this as "snobbery" I see it as they making a choice likewise someof your clan never join public games or play singles with low rankers - that is also a choice as it is a choice of those in your clan to only play team games, again this is a matter of choice.

I do think THOTA needs to rethink its clan challenges policy though as every clan they face surely has a right to pick who they believe their best players are and in all honesty I don't think anyone on this site would say hand on their heart that score is a fair determination of skill. Using myself as an example as I'm a fairly typical average scored player, on the scoreboard I'm currently ranked at position 6,081 with 1,201 pts. This implies that of the active membership on this site 6,080 are better than me at this game - perhaps this is true but in all honesty I doubt it, likewise I'm confident there are players with a lower score than me that are more skillful than me. a number of your clan have played me in the past and I'm currently in 2 games involving members of your clan including one against yourself - I don't think I'm playing that badly in those games or in the games I played against your clan members in the past yet players like me will never be left play you in a clan challenge according to your rules as they are currently enforced.

As I said already I am not going to make generalisations and I'm definitely not going to make them about your clan but this site those have "snobs" I have been on the receiving end of this as have several other low ranked players as I said in my previous post sometimes its subtle sometimes its far from subtle.

Edit: obviously it's a group decision but further to my post above I personally would be opposed to my clan playing a challenge against any clan where we do not have a free hand in who we pick to play and have to exclude a chunk of our membership just because of their score.

[KoE_Sirius]

Check my Rank/Score.
Then check the last 100 games I played.
Over 90% of them are Public games.

Sorry made the subject about me for a second

[hulmey]

^^^^ THis was the guy THOTA were really pissed off about! When we had the KOE vs THOTA clan challenge. So it wasnt really about playing a bad player and not having a challenging match but rather about losing to many points!!

[bob72]

I thought this might be about the stealth chat that occurs in so many games. I've had some where players don't even bother to say hello once a game is initiated.

i chat a lot cheer when I get good dice moan when I don't.

I tend to get a lot of STFU! So quite a few people want quiet when they play obviously

Also when I see someone making a daft move I say so. This upsets loads of people and I'm probably on a few ignore lists but sometimes you think WTF and I just say it hehe.

CAn't really help ingame chat might as well be playing the PC AI if there's no chat good or bad.

[KoE_Sirius]

Join one of my games bob...You wont see me stop talking,unless I'm playing 3 freestyle games at once.
Infact most of the people I play are good conversationalists.
I think you are mixing in the wrong circles.

[Blitzaholic]

wow... 8 pages on the topic of Risk Snobbery... and my name isn't even mentioned once... I am beside myself with utter astonishment...

Am I not the poster child for playing the same map (classic) and the same game type (5-6 player seq escalating)... oh sure, I have friends that have lured me into other maps & other game types... i've even played a few team games... but none of those have maintained any real appeal for me...

So is it to protect precious points?... I have lost upto 23 consecutive games playing my preferred way... that's alot of precious points to lose... lol... but make no mistake about it... i do prefer to win...

But perhaps I am no longer considered to have a high enough score to be a snob... heck, even AAfitz has a higher score than me right now, lol... dang, i gotta say, i miss being on top... where are my fans, the groupies, the Paparazzi? And I thought it was lonely at the top... obscurity does not make better company...


My game choices are determined by these FOUR factors only:

1. I like playing with friends... especially those that add a fun element to the game chat...

2. I like playing highly skilled opponents... perfect games if you will... no mistakes, deep strategy... loads of fun, and tough as heck to win...

3. I also enjoy random games... lower ranks can add an element of dodge-ball to the game, ducking and avoiding being a victim of a shallow strategic thinker... loads of fun, and while easier to win, it is tough to stay level with the points... although often the lack of 1 & 2 above can make these rather dull...

4. I like to play RISK!... that's right, RISK! and in it's purest form... that means the CLASSIC map, and that means ESCALATING, and Sequential, and Standard (singles)...

So I will say, I do admire players who want to play every map, every variant, and with every skill level... kinda like having a complete rock collection... that's cool... but it does not interest me...

I do get game invites from time to time... and some i accept, and some i don't... usually due to the game format...

So I must ask, is this snobbery?
Well if it is... then I must add just one thing... I am really good at it!

well spoken robin as usual

[RiskTycoon]

^^^^ THis was the guy THOTA were really pissed off about! When we had the KOE vs THOTA clan challenge. So it wasnt really about playing a bad player and not having a challenging match but rather about losing to many points!!

you say that over and over again...it wasn't about points dude...for crying out loud ...understand this....go look at my games i play TONS of public games against anyone who isn't on my ignore list i drop points to cooks all the time but yet i still maintain my rank ..... and i was the one who was pissed the most during that challenge ...... get the facts straight man....it had NOTHING to do with points......

[rebelman]

^^^^ THis was the guy THOTA were really pissed off about! When we had the KOE vs THOTA clan challenge. So it wasnt really about playing a bad player and not having a challenging match but rather about losing to many points!!

you say that over and over again...it wasn't about points dude...for crying out loud ...understand this....go look at my games i play TONS of public games against anyone who isn't on my ignore list i drop points to cooks all the time but yet i still maintain my rank ..... and i was the one who was pissed the most during that challenge ...... get the facts straight man....it had NOTHING to do with points......

would love this to be confined to history - as all in all that was a fun challenge. However THOTA made it abundantly clear they did not want either sirius or amanda to be in games because of their score. The reality is they were picked to play as they were much better players than those with much higher ranks we left on the bench. Sirius now less than 3 months later has a score of 2905. He's still the same player just a different score - which in a lotof ways shows why we wanted him on the team in the first place. His then score did not reflect his skill level.

I understand completely when a clan has a min. pts to join (dont agree with it but I understand it) but no clan should ever tell another clan who they can or can't pick on their team. I can't think of any other game in rl or online where you tell your opponent who they can or can't pick on their team.

My current clan contains every rank from cook to colonel and if we were taking part in a challenge we would pick our best possible team no matter what their score. Haywood (score 719) would be picked ahead of clive (score 3183) if aat the time of the challenge he was playing better in teams - im using these two as examples as they have radically different scores but I hope people understand what I mean ie we will pick our best possible team for challenges scores will have little/nothing to do with it.

[RiskTycoon]

that's not the point either...the facts are you accepted the challenge put forth in front of you on certain terms....you broke those terms.... end of story....not only that but when you guys posted that silly list with people over the said score when the challenge started.....Amanda wasn't even on the list?? so how do you explain putting her in on terms already agreed upon? I've let it go rebelman a long time ago simply because i'm not a snob and i don't care that much .....what i care about is being shady and breaking your word.... that is what made me mad if you must know....

[rebelman]

that's not the point either...the facts are you accepted the challenge put forth in front of you on certain terms....you broke those terms.... end of story....not only that but when you guys posted that silly list with people over the said score when the challenge started.....Amanda wasn't even on the list?? so how do you explain putting her in on terms already agreed upon? I've let it go rebelman a long time ago simply because i'm not a snob and i don't care that much .....what i care about is being shady and breaking your word.... that is what made me mad if you must know....

i don't think we were shady or broke our word - the terms were negotiated a few times - this is the first time its been said the final terms were breached. Both players were above 1600 at the time the challenge began - it took me a huge amount of work to go back over their games to see if this actually was the case as I was sceptical myself but in both cases their scores nosedived immediately after that. (i still ave the excel file of my workings if you really want to see it) When I took over the organisation of the KoE team to avoid further grief I left these 2 out of all subsequent games. I would love to confine this to the past but honestly these are facts.

ALL koE's players had scores over 1600 when this challenge was agreed.

If they were not they would have been part of our simultaneous challenge against the bounty hunters.

The score of amanda and sirius nosedived at that time.

when I took over the organisation I did not pick them for any games so as to avoid further grief.

None of our teams even when sirius and amanda's scores nosedived had an average score below 1700.

as for breaching your terms -these are included in your first post and as was pointed out at the time we complied to the letter of these:

We will not accept any challenges from any maggot teams with a point average under 1600, however all other challenges welcome. We will also be featuring CLAN TOURNAMENTS, 1 per month. Stay tuned for more info.
IF you win you will be CC World Champions and will remain that way until someone can debunk whoever wins!

There appears to be some confusion so I will just clarify the following ;

1) 2000 points is the minimum point score for anybody wishing to be considered for membership of our clan.

2) 1600 points is the minimum point score for anybody wishing to challenge us to a game.

3) We are accepting challenges from other clans.

Thats all folks !

the challenger on behalf of the clan was yorkie a major and our overall clan average score was above 1600 including ALL our members in the calculation.

None of our teams EVER had an average score less than 1600.

In all honesty i don't want to get into a fight about this as I am now gone from koe and am active in another clan. Also some of the players I have the most respect for and am friendliest with on this site are in your clan.

As i said at the time the truly great teams like man u and chelsea are willing t play anyone in a cup competition likewise in the league week in week out they play teams with much poorer players as there are only a handful of elite teams.

Here on cc there are over 40 clans - in all honesty looking at the make up of those clans assuming you need about 12 players for a challenge out of that 40 there are only 3/4 that meet your requirements and all I believe have players with scores below 1600 as well - dragoons, legends of war, untouchables, bushwackers (and 2 more on the way). I can't see any other clans out of the 40 plus competitive ones with 12 players above 1600. in some ways this makes sense as getting back to my soccer example you have a big 4 in arsenal, chelsea, manu and liverpool then everyone else is of varios levels of skill below them.

[RiskTycoon]

Amanda wasn't on your list of players over the required amount when you posted your little list of players to try and back up your story last time....nice post but you are still dodging the actual breach. So regardless of how you try and justify it you posted something you said was fact...and she wasn't even on it.... come on man...

you know what, this isn't the place for this...you are right i'm wrong ....better? just forget it.... it doesn't matter

[Blitzaholic]

RT rocks

[rebelman]

Amanda wasn't on your list of players over the required amount when you posted your little list of players to try and back up your story last time....nice post but you are still dodging the actual breach .

***gos back to look through a huge amount of spam on 3 different threads to find this post so this can be laid to rest***

[Blitzaholic]

RT rules, luv your new sig


especially the T

[RiskTycoon]

thanks man lol i keep looking at yours thinking it needs and upgrade too lol now go back to talking about snobs lol

[rebelman]

ok heres the posts including the one rt referred to which as was said at the time was about sirius not amanda:

I thought we had agreed 1600 plus on the points here.... did I miss something posted in the thread someone set me straight please

I thought we had agreed 1600 plus on the points here.... did I miss something posted in the thread someone set me straight please

yep who has dipped below ?

just checked and i see both sirius and amanda have diped below - at the time this challenge was greed both met the required rank conditions.

lol they only have 1485 ..... I thought they were last in line but it looks like they were second so i suppose they could have dropped but 115 points ! lol wow...ok i'll deal with it lol....well as long as they are in the giving mood i guess lol I'll take some points too

they didn't dip lol they only have 1485 and the game hasn't even started yet ! so they joined like that...sorry I thought they were last in line but it looks like they were second so i suppose they could have dropped but 115 points in a day ! lol wow...ok i'll deal with it lol

I disagree amanda was definitly above 1600 as recently as yesterday.

This is a quote from our private forum from yesterday after this scores issue was raised, and I witnessed her score at the time being above 1600, however I did not take a screen shot.

I've been fighting all day, and I'm happy to say I am now back up above 1600

OMG my sword arm aches now lol

The above post was made by Amanda at

Posted: 25 Oct 2007 19:11

I am now checking out Sirius but we have already indicated dragon dor is our replacement if any of our players dont meet the pts requirement.

Regarding Sirius

we keep track of our members scores on an internal chart that is updated approximately once a week.

The last such chart was posted on October 18 and at that time Sirius met your requirement.

nachito Colonel 3127*
Clive Major 2802*
Whathell Major 2569*
djt5483 Captain 2555*
yorkiepeter Captain 2427 *
Wild_Tiger Captain 2356 *
pascalleke Captain 2262 *
igotaished 2120 Captain *
Syzygy Captain 2066*
Mentos- Captain 2048 *
hulmey Captain 2026*
stringybeany 1901 Lieutenant *
bob3603 Sergeant 1st Class 1777 *
codyjd Sergeant 1st Class 1768 *
wiggybowler Sergeant 1st class 1757 *
Gerbertvb 1754 Sergeant 1st class *
bigworm000 Sergeant 1st class 1688 *
risktaker17 sergeant 1st Class 1665 *
KOE_KittyKat Sergeant 1st Class 1653
KoE_fjanet Sergeant 1st Class 1653 *
The Fuzzy Pengui Sergeant 1st Class 1651 *
KoE_Sirius Sergeant 1st Class 1605

I just think it shady, when we didn't even agree on game settings and type yet till yesterday and I'm being given this line from October 18th??? if the game types and setting weren't agreed on till yesterday then that is the day the challenge started and people can start joining ....and you know, 25 maybe even 50 points under, we wouldn't care so much, but 115! come on! that's just plain BS.... never should have even thought to join...and with that many players above 1600 !!!! wtf do they even need to play for??! seems shady to me....very shady

OK I posted the October 18th data as that was the most recent I could verify, Sirius himself can confirm when he dropped below, it has already been said that dragon dor is a potential replacement for any of our team that fall below.

As a mark of respect for your rules ,Dragon Dor has been added as a 13th man and will be used to replace any one of our players who falls below 1600.

We do have a large number of players above 1600 but as is obvious by the fact we have not picked some of our majors and captains - our team is picked from the best players available that have the skills necessary to win this challenge. no offence on any of the players involved but picking our team purely based on score would not be our best possible team available which this one now is.

forget it man, it's over and done with, lets just get this over with..

There appears to be some confusion so I will just clarify the following ;

1) 2000 points is the minimum point score for anybody wishing to be considered for membership of our clan.

2) 1600 points is the minimum point score for anybody wishing to challenge us to a game.

3) We are accepting challenges from other clans.

Thats all folks !

Sirius is not challenging you to a game. This is a clan challenge.

secondly I have Sirius down to play in triples and dragon dor in doubles. The other members of sirius' trips team have currently 2191 and 1740 giving a team score of 5416 or an average of 1805 points per player. There if we fielded 3 1800 point players together i guess that wouldn't be a problem, but cc calculates points on the average.... so gentlemen what is the difference?

would that create a solution?

With respect it is I that picks the team, whoever heard of the opposition picking a team.

I believe this to be a fair compromise.

Now can we please get on with it.

sorry folks, no hard feelings, was just caught off guard and surprised......like I said, lets just get back to it and forget it ok? Won't happen again I promise

the above posts from pages 78 - 80 of the horsemen thread show how the query was responded to at the time - both players were above the mark when the challenge began - after some tooing and frowing there inclusion was accepted by all - as i said at the time if they had been below 1600 at the start of the challenge they would have been dropped - we had dragon dor lined up as a reserve if that happened. Amanda was not included on that list as that post was about sirius - i had answered the amanda query in my previous post, based on you r last post above I assumed you had accepted what had happened and were ready to consign it to history, obviously I was mistaken.