Inappropriate Avatar (Swastika)

[Robinette]

I haven't got the time to read all these posts but i did hear that the Nazi avatar got banned, i assume this is the topic.

I would just like to add that i disagree with it being banned. This attitude is part of the problem, a Big part. A nazi avatar means nothing to me, Nothing. Most, and when i say most, the majority of people who find this offence are hypocrites of the highest calibre, If old enough have probably even uttered the preposterous "just ignore them".

Hopefully this really does mean nothing to you, and as such you should be able to "just ignore it"...

This reminds me that we choose not to serving alcohol at certain parties... Now let me just say that I have no problem with drinking myself, but when there are certain people present that we know struggle with alcohol, we feel it would be wrong of us to put it in thier face. This is quite simply good manners. I do not personnally have a problem drinking, but this freedom does not give me the right to force others to see things my way. And if you are truely honest with yourself, you will find that there is something that trips you up too... for some, as mentioned above, it's alcohol... for others it's drugs... maybe it's money... maybe it's porn... whatever it is, everybody has something that they struggle with, and nothing good comes from being exposed to it. If anyone reading this thinks this makes me a hyprocite, then I can tell you that you have alot to learn about people. And if anyone reading this cannot connect the dots as to how this applies to this thread, then, once again, I can tell you that you have alot to learn about people.

[AAFitz]

this really is funny....my point is that all of these brilliant attacks have cost the attackers their countries destruction....

Ah yes- the rock solid connection between 9/11 and Iraq...

Not to mention that Iraq's been "destroyed" for a looooong time- that's why the States invaded it. Years of horrible atrocities funded by the States, then years of brutal sanctions....it was already the weakest country in the area when the states attacked it.

If there was a connection, then the attack should be viewed as retaliation for the states actions...

read the whole thread before quoting out of context....im using the example of the US attacking iraq as an example of where a military has conquered a nation and has a disaster on its hands...it clearly was not completely well thought out, and is an example of what many consider a mistake...personally i think saddam had to be taken out, but what im saying is we need brilliance in fixing the situation....thats all...

ive clarified this five times...its in all caps at one point....everyone just loves to argue so they quote a line and counter it...half of the counters to my quotes are essentially making the same point i was trying to make...

i used the attacks on the trade center as an example of an attack that cost the attackers a lot....sure every member has not been killed, but many were. They were evicted from their country that they had been controling as the people cheered their demise....to say that they are better off after attacking us is insane...ie it was a massive mistake

as was pearl harbor which was earlier suggested as an accomplishment....look what happened to the attackers country.... demolished...their military demolished...not very well thought out if you ask me

my point on all of these...before you quote one more line out of context is that throughout history, there have been many battles won by intelligent strategists, but the ones that ended in their countries destruction were obviously for naught...and ultimately not well thought out at all...

had the german generals assasinated the lunitic they would have saved their country from being leveled....so saying they were brilliant strategists doesnt apply in my book...a general should protect its country and soldiers from complete and utter destruction...they did not...thats all i was saying

and i believe Robinettes point is this entire conversation is perhaps in bad taste...i used some bad examples and have been quoted out of context nearly every time...so ive stated my point repeatedly...take it to mean what you want

[Robinette]

umm.. fitz.... I was commenting on the use of the avatar, you know, the point of this thread...

I was not commenting on anything you said...
although I would say I agree with most of it, for what it's worth.

More importantly... Have you seen this yet?... I think it will help (get ready to smile)

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... c&start=15

[cyberdaniel]

bla bla bla bla bla.... For 7 pages now and you still can't stop this. First of all read this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika
The swastika is just a simple symbol. For some it represents racism, for some it represents a sacred religious symbol, for some it represents a distinction. It can represent a lot of things. The problem is that some people refuse to believe that it can represent something good. Some people choose to hide behind the fact that children play this game and they can see it. I say that they can find the symbol faster just by searching swastika on google. In fact the first result is the wikipedia page. Unless you're child has access to only this site its pretty ridiculous to think that he couldn't find about it faster from somewhere else, in fact just by reading the wiki page he could learn more positive things.

I don't see any reason why this symbol should be banned, in fact in most countries (except Germany and Austria) you could walk out the street with a huge flag with the swastika, even in front of the police station and they couldn't arrest you. (its called freedom of speech) (unless you're shouting racist remarks)

If we start banning this lets go further. How many posts with people complaining about names are there? I know of at least one huge post that went for weeks. Guess what the name still is on the site and guess what he's a mod right now. (no offense dude just trying to make a point)

[Robinette]

Very good cyberdaniel

The Wikipedia info was a great read... and very informative.
Recommended reading for sure.

[Ruben Cassar]

What is fascinating about the swastika is that every civilisation seems to have used it at one point or other in history even if they were not connected with each other and they had no contact with the other civilisation.

[cdman]

[quote="Ruben Cassar"]Germany could have won World War II actually. If Hitler had not been stupid enough to attack Russia they had a good chance of winning it. Don't forget that Britain was pretty stretched at that time with the US preferring to stay out of the war she was fighting on her own. I also believe the English channel saved Britain at the start of the war! So if you think that Germany could not have won the war, think again. Germany had the best military machine in the world at that time.[quote]

i agree with you germany whould have won the war if it attacked the uk first. or instead of using the V2 rockets on london if he used them on stalingrad or moscow.

he whould have all said heil hitler! but germany didn't win and we all free or we should be but even an avatar is a problem when it doesn't meet the guidelines.
if it had been a american flag i whould had been ok. but a swanstika is wrong for some people, not even for most people.

[AAFitz]

umm.. fitz.... I was commenting on the use of the avatar, you know, the point of this thread...

I was not commenting on anything you said...
although I would say I agree with most of it, for what it's worth.

More importantly... Have you seen this yet?... I think it will help (get ready to smile)

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... c&start=15

though you may not have been reffering to my examples it applies...to use those examples in this forum, with so little time to fully explain is a lot like serving alcohol where people are uncomfortable around it using 9/11 as an example is perhaps one of the less thought out posts i have made and i regret it....

as far as the avatar, in public i dont believe in any censorship, and most reasonable americans would agree. so if someone needs to prop his self esteem with a swastika, i could care less...not to say that i respect it

however, its conquer club...as lacks creation and domain and because it is a club, i respect his right to ask us to where a shirt and tie, wear blue on sundays, or not wear a swastika...if this was out in the general public any suppression of free speech is completely uncalled for...but this really is different...

He is a very positive person, who wants an open but positive environment, which is evident in the body of his posts...im sure the reason he did it is he feels responsible for the people in here to some degree and does not want them to be overly offended by what many consider a symbol of the party that tried to exterminate their race...but it is techincally a club, so he has that right...whether i agree or disagree

[foolish_yeti]

read the whole thread before quoting out of context....im using the example of the US attacking iraq as an example of where a military has conquered a nation and has a disaster on its hands...it clearly was not completely well thought out, and is an example of what many consider a mistake...personally i think saddam had to be taken out, but what im saying is we need brilliance in fixing the situation....thats all...

Please do not assume I have not read the entire post. I am aware of your position on the war- however this has little to do with the statement you made:

my point is that all of these brilliant attacks have cost the attackers their countries destruction....

I see nothing out of context by quoting this part. The meaning has not changed due to its isolation.

i used the attacks on the trade center as an example of an attack that cost the attackers a lot....sure every member has not been killed, but many were. They were evicted from their country that they had been controling as the people cheered their demise....to say that they are better off after attacking us is insane...ie it was a massive mistake

So this is basically saying the exact same thing that your "out of context" quote does.

I am simply saying that there is no proof that links Iraq to 9/11. In fact the official reason for attacking Iraq was WMD, not 9/11...a reason that has also been debunked (although Sadaam was creating WMD earlier...chemical- funded by the states). And even if there is a link between Iraq and 9/11 this hardly cost them their country, as it was already destroyed. You're correct- Iraq is not better off than before- the Iraq people are praising Sadaam in comparison to the States occupation. Not that Sadaam was a great guy.

my point on all of these...before you quote one more line out of context is that throughout history, there have been many battles won by intelligent strategists, but the ones that ended in their countries destruction were obviously for naught...and ultimately not well thought out at all...

Still not seeing how I quoted you out of context. Your point is how the 9/11 attacks cost the attackers in Iraq their country and thus strategically that was a horrible move. My point is that there is no proof of the Iraq link, and that their country was already lost. Not sure how that is out of context. It is a separate point from how the states has bunged up their Iraq invasion, but you made the point.

[AAFitz]

first you quotedme: this really is funny....my point is that all of these brilliant attacks have cost the attackers their countries destruction....

then said: Ah yes- the rock solid connection between 9/11 and Iraq...

it is out of context because it seems to insinuate i am making a connection between 9/11 and iraq which i am not in any way

though the two are obviously connected, i am using them completely seperately...

im not suggesting that iraq lost anything because of the 9/11 attacks, im suggesting the attackers in afganistan did...

then i am suggesting the U S is losing a lot because of thier attacks in Iraq, and need to find a way to resolve the situation and that it will take brilliance to do so...

[Kugelblitz22]

""Germany could have won World War II actually. If Hitler had not been stupid enough to attack Russia they had a good chance of winning it.""


"Hitler never played Risk as a kid"

-Eddie Izzard

[foolish_yeti]

Ah I see- so the other front on the "war on terror"...

Well, Bin Laden is not Afghani- so it's not really his country- the same going for many of his followers... it's not a nation serving war.

Tactically the attack has served a purpose. It's increased anti-american sentiments world wide. The same sentiments shared by Bin Laden for many reasons- Israel occupation of Palestine, US support of Saudi Arabia, the situation in Iraq (US funded atrocities of Sadaam, later brutal sanctions against the country). The attack of Afghanistan is a great thing for Bin Laden as it will increase his supporters substantially. The US invasion has done far more damage to the innocent population than any terrorists. People in Iraq hate the states, people in Afghanistan hate the states....populations worldwide hate the states....I'd say the attacks are then a success. Unfortunately it's the people who suffer, but that's no different than what the states has been doing for years.

I mean, the US put these people into power- funding them in their fight against Russian occupation. The states could easily have taken them out of power if they wanted to with limited loss of life. Bombing and disrupting food aid to the region has been horrendous. I would blame the further decimation of Afghanistan (it was already destroyed, like Iraq) on the states.

[AAFitz]

tell that to the afganistan people who can now vote, and women who have much more freedom than they did under the complete control of the taliban...

the afgan people applauded when they were liberated...the attacks hurt our county deeply, but if you are saying bin laden did the best thing for his people i believe you are deluded

[AAFitz]

""Germany could have won World War II actually. If Hitler had not been stupid enough to attack Russia they had a good chance of winning it.""


"Hitler never played Risk as a kid"

-Eddie Izzard

conquring nations is not the same as holding them...i tend to doubt the nations they conquered would just say ok...fine well be nazis now....

power can really only be given not taken...if the people do not want to be controlled, eventually they will find a way to overthrow their conquerers

[foolish_yeti]

tell that to the afganistan people who can now vote, and women who have much more freedom than they did under the complete control of the taliban...

the afgan people applauded when they were liberated...the attacks hurt our county deeply, but if you are saying bin laden did the best thing for his people i believe you are deluded

First thing to clarify, again- is that Bin Laden is not Afghani and his actions were not for Afghanistan. Bin Laden is in a war against America, and for that purpose his attack worked well. From the states reaction, this proved horrible for the Afghani people.

The States invasion of Afghanistan was not to oust the Taliban. The States had put the Taliban in power- funding them in the fight against Russian occupation. In the early goings of the war the US basically just said give us Bin Laden and we'll stop bombing your country. The Taliban objective was added after the fact- three weeks after the mass bombing and disruption of aid that has further decimated an already horribly weak country.

The Afghan people did want the Taliban out, and in fact told the States that their bombing was hindering them in doing so- asked it to aid in other ways. The States was more interested in flexing its muscle. The Taliban were far from being strong and could have been ousted by other means...especially since the population was against them.

[AAFitz]

fine bin laden is brilliant... it was a great idea....his world is a much better place now...

is that your point?

[foolish_yeti]

no, I don't see where I make that point...could you elaborate?

[AAFitz]

my point is it was foolish for him to do it...

but im really not trying to argue..just make that point

[Vonhelm]

There are lots of war games that have the swatiska and Iron cross. Call of Duty just to name one. I'm sure you can name many more. Might as well call those companies and ask them to stop making those games. I mean, how many children play those games? Anybody wanna play Axis and Allies?

Correct me if I'm wrong but the Iron Cross was a medal given during wartime for valor during battle? Some or alot may think the Nazis were horrible people but a majority of the German folk fighting were just average Joe's. They did what they were told and some did it courageously and faithfully so I don't think we should be so quick to discount the meaning of the Iron Cross.

I think somebody here summed it up best about if it was 'lawful' to have symbols like that in their particular country. If it's not unlawful you don't have any right asking the person to remove it. It's his right to have it..period.

It's a very dangerous game when you get in to voicing your opinion about this type of thing, you can easily turn yourself into a hypocrite.

[speckknoedelsup]

i am refering to the post that wanted to point out why the nazis have lost the WWII , but i am to lazy to quote.

one main reason for loosing it ( and i am very glad for this otherwise i would probably be a nazi today) is that the british invented the RADAR system just in the right time, this has given them the ability to win the air fight and helped all the other nations to win the air fight . ( thx u u brilliant british scientists)

some people said the attack of russia was foolish of hitler, yeah of course he was a very very crazy man, and the main point is : his intent was not to only to conquer the world, his long time plan was to breed a new kind of humans in order to be able to do that you need control of the whole world.
he was thinking and talking of humans like a farmer would think and talk of his corn , he was very very very crazy weird man .

most people even nazis never read his book "mein kampf" because it is very boring to read, if they did they would probably have stoped him.

refering to the iraq posts:

well i am glad that saddam is taken out, but what i really got pissed of is that the whole attack was made under fake reasons, it was not about wmds or saddam , it was about getting control of their oil resources, in order to get this you need to calm down the situation their and set in a goverment that is pro-us which will accept the contracts that are already made !!!! , there was hardly anything about those contracts in the media ( i don't know why ) but i checked them out and it is quite a bargain. there is kind of civil war in iraq now and even those 20.000 extra units won't help but i hope i really hope , that the situation calms down there.

[gerry22]

I haven't got the time to read all these posts but i did hear that the Nazi avatar got banned, i assume this is the topic.

I would just like to add that i disagree with it being banned. This attitude is part of the problem, a Big part. A nazi avatar means nothing to me, Nothing. Most, and when i say most, the majority of people who find this offence are hypocrites of the highest calibre, If old enough have probably even uttered the preposterous "just ignore them".

Hopefully this really does mean nothing to you, and as such you should be able to "just ignore it"...

This reminds me that we choose not to serving alcohol at certain parties... Now let me just say that I have no problem with drinking myself, but when there are certain people present that we know struggle with alcohol, we feel it would be wrong of us to put it in thier face. This is quite simply good manners. I do not personnally have a problem drinking, but this freedom does not give me the right to force others to see things my way. And if you are truely honest with yourself, you will find that there is something that trips you up too... for some, as mentioned above, it's alcohol... for others it's drugs... maybe it's money... maybe it's porn... whatever it is, everybody has something that they struggle with, and nothing good comes from being exposed to it. If anyone reading this thinks this makes me a hyprocite, then I can tell you that you have alot to learn about people. And if anyone reading this cannot connect the dots as to how this applies to this thread, then, once again, I can tell you that you have alot to learn about people.

This is nothing but self righteous pity.

The one thing a a person trying to give up ciggerettes HATES!

"Do you mind if i smoke?"

[Robinette]

This is nothing but self righteous pity.

The one thing a a person trying to give up ciggerettes HATES!
"Do you mind if i smoke?"

Bad example... doesn't even make sense with what i said.

But here's your sign anyway:

"I can tell you that you have alot to learn about people."

[gerry22]

This is nothing but self righteous pity.

The one thing a a person trying to give up ciggerettes HATES!
"Do you mind if i smoke?"

Bad example... doesn't even make sense with what i said.

But here's your sign anyway:

"I can tell you that you have alot to learn about people."

I wouldn't have guessed, you disaggree. I'm astounded.

[manicman]

I don't know whether this is the correct place but here goes...

I have an issue with CDman displaying an iron cross and swastika in his avatar. I've PM'd him to privately ask if he could change it but he's not been responsive. Is it really acceptable on a sight where we have a fair few young players to display Nazi symbols, especially as Risk (as a game) is based around war anyway??? If I'm wrong then feel free to ignore this completely, or to move this to the correct forum.

Before I make my point I want to say that I'm Jewish and young and understand the horrors of the holocaust about as clearly as you can without living through them.

Free speech is a good principle and even if just seeing the swastika could somehow corrupt someone (us young people aren't that stupid and implying that we are is insulting) you are only giving it more attention with this post. Images are what you make of them and being offended is not something that he is forcing upon you. Call this guy an idiot and move on. It isn't worth it.

[Anarkistsdream]

I don't know whether this is the correct place but here goes...

I have an issue with CDman displaying an iron cross and swastika in his avatar. I've PM'd him to privately ask if he could change it but he's not been responsive. Is it really acceptable on a sight where we have a fair few young players to display Nazi symbols, especially as Risk (as a game) is based around war anyway??? If I'm wrong then feel free to ignore this completely, or to move this to the correct forum.

Before I make my point I want to say that I'm Jewish and young and understand the horrors of the holocaust about as clearly as you can without living through them.

Free speech is a good principle and even if just seeing the swastika could somehow corrupt someone (us young people aren't that stupid and implying that we are is insulting) you are only giving it more attention with this post. Images are what you make of them and being offended is not something that he is forcing upon you. Call this guy an idiot and move on. It isn't worth it.

f*ck yeah, brother