Fog of War Question -> Is it cheating? Unfair?

[jimboston]

I have seen some chat in games... regarding FOG and players disclosing the location or size of other players in the open chat.

Some people seem to think it's fine to point out in chat that one player is strong... or has "x" number of armies on a territory or continent.

Others seem to think this is unfair and a violation of rules.

What are your thoughts?

I think personally... so long as this exchange of information happens in game chat, and not in private chat or in the chat room, that it's fine.

I look at it as an exchange of "intelligence"... like what happens in the real world.

If you see this... it could be true... it could be false... it could be one player pointing you to hit another and directing attention away from himself... you have to take this info and decide if it affects your strategy.

You can already tell how many bonus' a guy/gal is getting from the log... if this info seems to agree with that... good!

Also... so long as it's in game chat... the party being talked about can follow it... and refute or whatever. At least he/she knows it's happening.

If this happens in private email... seems it would be unfair.

Thoughts? Comments?

[firth4eva]

It's by the rules if you keep it in the chat, but could be considered bad sportsmanship. If it's private it could be considered against the rules. I find it also a good strategy to lie in fog of war to deflect attention away from yourself. But only do this if you are the only person who can see this territory or you will be busted.

[lord voldemort]

it is perfectly legal if done in game chat, it may be annoying but it is a tactic of fog and can be really useful, it can work 2 fold when an opponent only has one territory left and you can protect them til you wanna take them out..

[Chadwick31]

I'm in agreement with most of your points. However, in the early stages of the game, it almost destroys the point of having the fog of war option.

[yeti_c]

It's an interesting technique - but overuse it and people will start hating you...

C.

[Coleman]

Depends, I only play fog of war assassin so people aren't as forthcoming with information in those games.

[freezie]

I wouldn'tcall it against the rules, except if done privatl. Then it's secret alliance.

But as far as cheap or not..Depend on how you use it. Abusing it is never good, though.

[Coleman]

If you were playing with me and started mouthing where everyone was, I'd mouth off where you were anywhere I could see you.

[jimboston]

Obviously if you give away some's strength or position. then they can give your away too. That's obviously fair.

Even in non-FOW games... some people seem to get mad when you point out in chat they are strong, and suggest that others should hit them. I don't understand why they get mad about that. I mean it's obvious in non-FOW games. Still people call it cheating or colluding or ganging up or whatever.

I'm wondering why it's "bad sportsmanship"...?

I guess I'm mainly thinking of comments along the lines of...
"Hey everyone... what out there... Pink's starting to look real strong!"
or
"Guys... watch Pink... if you follow the logs you see he's building armies and not attacking!!!"
or even
"Watch Pink.. he's got 50 armies sitting on XXX."

Not a full-blown listing on all armies on all properties a guy owns.

Of course... if I have 50 armies sitting next to a country you own... and you say something in chat... that country you own is going NEXT...

[insomniacdude]

Obviously if you give away some's strength or position. then they can give your away too. That's obviously fair.

Even in non-FOW games... some people seem to get mad when you point out in chat they are strong, and suggest that others should hit them. I don't understand why they get mad about that. I mean it's obvious in non-FOW games. Still people call it cheating or colluding or ganging up or whatever.

I'm wondering why it's "bad sportsmanship"...?

I guess I'm mainly thinking of comments along the lines of...
"Hey everyone... what out there... Pink's starting to look real strong!"
or
"Guys... watch Pink... if you follow the logs you see he's building armies and not attacking!!!"
or even
"Watch Pink.. he's got 50 armies sitting on XXX."

Not a full-blown listing on all armies on all properties a guy owns.

Of course... if I have 50 armies sitting next to a country you own... and you say something in chat... that country you own is going NEXT...

Most people easily lose track of the fact that the game is as much about diplomacy as it is tactics. FoW just makes the diplomacy much more important.

There are quite a number of things in FoW about which one could complain. This is definitely not one of them.

[sully800]

It's perfectly legal if done in game chat, as everyone else has said. And its also true that some people wouldn't like to play with someone who gives away such information. It is legitimate grounds for negative feedback or ignore list IMO if the person is unhappy with the tactic.

I personally wouldn't mind, but do it too often and it would certainly become annoying.

[AndyDufresne]

Sounds like something to leave feedback for, regarding their play style.


--Andy

[Stegura]

disclosing the information seems perfectly fine, strategical even. Secretly just isn't cool though.

[Rocketry]

reading this left me outraged

giving away anothers postion (especially the red player as he started the game and made it fog-of-war) is worthy of a ban i think. Its not exatly playing properly is it? This comes under 'unwritten rules' in the rules section.

Deffinitly leave a neg and probably send an eticked as well, thats all i can think of. Sorry about that though man, i understand your difficult position. Yo did the right thing rallying support in the forums.

Rocketry

[yorkiepeter]

reading this left me outraged

giving away anothers postion (especially the red player as he started the game and made it fog-of-war) is worthy of a ban i think. Its not exatly playing properly is it? This comes under 'unwritten rules' in the rules section.

Deffinitly leave a neg and probably send an eticked as well, thats all i can think of. Sorry about that though man, i understand your difficult position. Yo did the right thing rallying support in the forums.

Rocketry

agree completely, if u wanna give away that info wtf play fow

[Piestar]

Nothing stops players from lying about what they see, so the info is marginal at best... personally I think it comes well within the spirit of the game... in open chat only of course.

[Nephilim]

I have seen some chat in games... regarding FOG and players disclosing the location or size of other players in the open chat.

Some people seem to think it's fine to point out in chat that one player is strong... or has "x" number of armies on a territory or continent.

Others seem to think this is unfair and a violation of rules.

What are your thoughts?

I think personally... so long as this exchange of information happens in game chat, and not in private chat or in the chat room, that it's fine.

I look at it as an exchange of "intelligence"... like what happens in the real world.

If you see this... it could be true... it could be false... it could be one player pointing you to hit another and directing attention away from himself... you have to take this info and decide if it affects your strategy.

You can already tell how many bonus' a guy/gal is getting from the log... if this info seems to agree with that... good!

Also... so long as it's in game chat... the party being talked about can follow it... and refute or whatever. At least he/she knows it's happening.

If this happens in private email... seems it would be unfair.

Thoughts? Comments?

your analogy don't make sense, mate.....are intelligence reports filed in your local newspaper? no, they are shared among allies. i think it's totally stupid to write notes in the game chat about who has what. the only sensible way to report on all those question marks is to give the info to someone who can offer you valuable info in return. and of course you have to be able to trust them.

that's all hypothetical, i've never done it either way and i don't like FOW, except for totally random "fun" games

[Visaoni]

reading this left me outraged

giving away anothers postion (especially the red player as he started the game and made it fog-of-war) is worthy of a ban i think. Its not exatly playing properly is it? This comes under 'unwritten rules' in the rules section.

Deffinitly leave a neg and probably send an eticked as well, thats all i can think of. Sorry about that though man, i understand your difficult position. Yo did the right thing rallying support in the forums.

Rocketry

Seriously? It's part of the game. In non-FoW games it isn't unheard of for one of the stronger players to make another look strong in order to get people to attack them. Of course, if somebody with half a brain sees this, chances are the attempt is going to win you a few more points when they're figuring out who the strongest is.

But the idea is the same. Use the chat to your benefit. Lie, tell the truth, who cares. It was an inevitable strategy once FoW was released. I don't see how it's so bad. It sure sucks to be on the receiving end, but you have your chance to convince people of the truth/a lie (depending on what was told about you) so it isn't their fault if you can't refute them effectively.

[ogr8cdd]

I have seen some chat in games... regarding FOG and players disclosing the location or size of other players in the open chat.

Some people seem to think it's fine to point out in chat that one player is strong... or has "x" number of armies on a territory or continent.

Others seem to think this is unfair and a violation of rules.

What are your thoughts?

I think personally... so long as this exchange of information happens in game chat, and not in private chat or in the chat room, that it's fine.

I look at it as an exchange of "intelligence"... like what happens in the real world.

If you see this... it could be true... it could be false... it could be one player pointing you to hit another and directing attention away from himself... you have to take this info and decide if it affects your strategy.

You can already tell how many bonus' a guy/gal is getting from the log... if this info seems to agree with that... good!

Also... so long as it's in game chat... the party being talked about can follow it... and refute or whatever. At least he/she knows it's happening.

If this happens in private email... seems it would be unfair.

Thoughts? Comments?

your analogy don't make sense, mate.....are intelligence reports filed in your local newspaper? no, they are shared among allies. i think it's totally stupid to write notes in the game chat about who has what. the only sensible way to report on all those question marks is to give the info to someone who can offer you valuable info in return. and of course you have to be able to trust them.

that's all hypothetical, i've never done it either way and i don't like FOW, except for totally random "fun" games

We get a lot of millitary troop movement in Iraq and that is on public TV, You have to make up your own mind as to how accurate and valid it is. I personally stay away from Position / Strength announcements, but it doesn't bother me if someone does mouth off in the game, I see it as a form of strategy, and play accordingly.

[jimboston]

I have seen some chat in games... regarding FOG and players disclosing the location or size of other players in the open chat.

Some people seem to think it's fine to point out in chat that one player is strong... or has "x" number of armies on a territory or continent.

Others seem to think this is unfair and a violation of rules.

What are your thoughts?

I think personally... so long as this exchange of information happens in game chat, and not in private chat or in the chat room, that it's fine.

I look at it as an exchange of "intelligence"... like what happens in the real world.

If you see this... it could be true... it could be false... it could be one player pointing you to hit another and directing attention away from himself... you have to take this info and decide if it affects your strategy.

You can already tell how many bonus' a guy/gal is getting from the log... if this info seems to agree with that... good!

Also... so long as it's in game chat... the party being talked about can follow it... and refute or whatever. At least he/she knows it's happening.

If this happens in private email... seems it would be unfair.

Thoughts? Comments?

your analogy don't make sense, mate.....are intelligence reports filed in your local newspaper? no, they are shared among allies. i think it's totally stupid to write notes in the game chat about who has what. the only sensible way to report on all those question marks is to give the info to someone who can offer you valuable info in return. and of course you have to be able to trust them.

that's all hypothetical, i've never done it either way and i don't like FOW, except for totally random "fun" games

We get a lot of millitary troop movement in Iraq and that is on public TV, You have to make up your own mind as to how accurate and valid it is. I personally stay away from Position / Strength announcements, but it doesn't bother me if someone does mouth off in the game, I see it as a form of strategy, and play accordingly.

You're right... my analogy doesn't make sense in that regards... but this isn't the true real-world... so sharing the info secretly would be a violation of unwritten rules for sure.

I don't think sharing the info in chat is any violation of rules... but I do understand why it would be annoying and grounds for a Negative Feedback and/or and Ignore.

I didn't do it BTW... I am commenting on seeing other do it... and seeing the recipient's reaction to it.

I do also get caught-up emotionally in games when someone does what I think it an "Idiot" move... but some of the extreme or violent reactions I see here are amusing. I get caught-up... but sometimes I think people take these GAMES a little too seriously.

[Twill]

It's just another form of alliance

Some people like them, some don't

Sometimes people stick to them sometimes they stab you in the back

Sometimes people give you good info, sometimes they screw you over

As long as they are public, it's above board...that doesn't mean people will like you for it

If you play against me don't be surprised if I form alliances, share information or try to mess with your head. This game is played in chat as much as it is on the board

Twill

[CW_Twist]

Why should we join the game of Fog of war, if middle in the game you will be tip off that other opponent are much stronger than others! I mean this is really unfair and we shouldn't call this fog of war, if there will no proper rules of this game i suggest to wipe this game out on the gameboard just look this example below:

2007-11-19 15:14:26 - ThalidomideGirl: Zeroster, temporary truce? CW pretty much has Asia, and that's bad.
2007-11-19 16:46:55 - zeroster: If I can take central America I could agree to 3 turns from then.
2007-11-19 16:56:25 - zeroster: ok if you are in agreement hostilities resume at the start of round 15
2007-11-19 17:06:30 - ThalidomideGirl: Agreed
2007-11-19 17:19:08 - CW_Twist: Hey! let me remind you, you're both playing against the rule of this game isn't it?
2007-11-19 17:20:29 - zeroster: In what way? alliances and truces are permisable if they are public.
2007-11-19 17:26:37 - zeroster: Maybe you'd like to read this debate in the forums.
2007-11-19 17:26:45 - zeroster: http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=33276
2007-11-19 17:39:04 - CW_Twist: ok guys anyway this is just having fun am not here for debate
2007-11-19 17:42:24 - zeroster: No problem, if it's any conolation any information that was given away could have been worked out by following the game log anyway.

[zeroster]

Like I said in the game chat, the information given could be a lie or information could be exchanged.

I suggest that you have a problem because you have a very limited view of what the fog of war option might bring to the game.

I'd also like to add that I don't like the suggestion you made that I was playing against the rules. Firstly there is no rule that says an information exchange can't take place and secondly, I didn't give any information away. What was I supposed to do close my eyes and not read it?

[Fire Mario]

Does anyone know the saying, "Loose lips sinks ships"?
This applies here. If you want your opponent(s) to know what you are hiding where, then go ahead and say it. If i was in that situation, I'd use the info to my advantage to conquer enemy territory.

[hulmey]

part of this game is diplomacy and you must use every method at your disposal to win. If someone has over 30 armies hidden and the others players are quite weak in comparison....hell yeah i would tell them and suffer any conqusences after as well!