Bots & Win percentage.

[Arama86n]

When clicking on "THE GAME" and "Game options" the part about bots seems to be missing, unless I'm going blind

Anyway. I've always assumed that bot games would not effect your win percentage, as displayed on your profile. Please tell me that this assumption was correct. Someone just told me they thought the opposite.

P.S. While I'm aksing questions. There used to be a Q&A forum, I was looking for it to post the above. It's been scrapped?

[betiko]

They do affect your win rate, but given that the win rate means jack shit in its current form, i really don t care. If one day we get a win rate based on gamed played expected win rate, then yeah, sure remove the bot win rate.

[Arama86n]

I know what you mean. One cannot at a glance glean much information from it, because it depends on whether the player has been involved in standard 3-8 (now 3-12) player games, or games with multiple teams. Or if the player has only played poly, 1v1 and team games excluding games with more than two teams.
I myself started off my CC visit by playing hundreds of 6-8 player games, and have had a long battle seeking 50%+ after that.
But still, by keeping the above in mind I still find the win percentage of some use, or used to.
If I now have to check how many bloody bot games the person has played as well...

I'm very disappointed. What a poor decision to include bot games.

[betiko]

I know what you mean. One cannot at a glance glean much information from it, because it depends on whether the player has been involved in standard 3-8 (now 3-12) player games, or games with multiple teams. Or if the player has only played poly, 1v1 and team games excluding games with more than two teams.
I myself started off my CC visit by playing hundreds of 6-8 player games, and have had a long battle seeking 50%+ after that.
But still, by keeping the above in mind I still find the win percentage of some use, or used to.
If I now have to check how many bloody bot games the person has played as well...

I'm very disappointed. What a poor decision to include bot games.

My win rate is BS because i got the bot medals when it was a real pain in the ass and you had to defeat them in 1v1 200 times, at least for the first 3 levels, so I have like 700 bot games under my belt, which is like 10% of what I've played and it surely has boosted my win rate by a few points.
What the win rate tells you of a person is just if he's a team/poly/1v1 player or a multi single player mostly, that's the only useful information I get when I look at it, and it's still not very trustworthy.

[Lord Arioch]

I know they did at the beginning but i dont think they do now? I seem to remeber that, that were removed? Or i was drunk and just whished it!

[Donelladan]

P.S. While I'm aksing questions. There used to be a Q&A forum, I was looking for it to post the above. It's been scrapped?

Yes.

[betiko]

I know they did at the beginning but i dont think they do now? I seem to remeber that, that were removed? Or i was drunk and just whished it!

it could only mean something if the person only plays one type of game (head to head in whatever form, or multi singles with always the same amount of opponents), but no one does that.

[Lord Arioch]

hmm i do that ... i play da bit or wtf its called single on classic when im bored or my dice seems to suck cause it shapes up after losing to bots ...
But if u are talking scenarios with bots? i got no clue:)

[betiko]

hmm i do that ... i play da bit or wtf its called single on classic when im bored or my dice seems to suck cause it shapes up after losing to bots ...
But if u are talking scenarios with bots? i got no clue:)

i'm not sure <e're talking about the same shit mate.
-bots do affect the win rate, but this isn't the thing that ruins it the most.
-the win rate has never meant anything as it treats all different game types the same (winning 50% if you only play 1v1 is just average, but winning 50% if you only play 3 player games is a pretty good figure)

[Arama86n]

hmm i do that ... i play da bit or wtf its called single on classic when im bored or my dice seems to suck cause it shapes up after losing to bots ...
But if u are talking scenarios with bots? i got no clue:)

i'm not sure <e're talking about the same shit mate.
-bots do affect the win rate, but this isn't the thing that ruins it the most.
-the win rate has never meant anything as it treats all different game types the same (winning 50% if you only play 1v1 is just average, but winning 50% if you only play 3 player games is a pretty good figure)

Yes, but, you are forgetting that this still means that anything way above 50% could still be interesting.
Sure, 33% usually means the person is playing standard games with multiple players. But a 70% win rate is always worth a look. Either one finds a good player, or learns something about a high ranking player one didn't know before (like that he's a farmer).
Now though, HIGH win ratios have lost their meaning. Before it was simply low ratio's that couldn't tell you anything for certain.
Do you get my drift?

[Lord Arioch]

i will shut up now

[betiko]

hmm i do that ... i play da bit or wtf its called single on classic when im bored or my dice seems to suck cause it shapes up after losing to bots ...
But if u are talking scenarios with bots? i got no clue:)

i'm not sure <e're talking about the same shit mate.
-bots do affect the win rate, but this isn't the thing that ruins it the most.
-the win rate has never meant anything as it treats all different game types the same (winning 50% if you only play 1v1 is just average, but winning 50% if you only play 3 player games is a pretty good figure)

Yes, but, you are forgetting that this still means that anything way above 50% could still be interesting.
Sure, 33% usually means the person is playing standard games with multiple players. But a 70% win rate is always worth a look. Either one finds a good player, or learns something about a high ranking player one didn't know before (like that he's a farmer).
Now though, HIGH win ratios have lost their meaning. Before it was simply low ratio's that couldn't tell you anything for certain.
Do you get my drift?

yes. remember that story with loutil? well I just checked him out back in the days cause I saw he had over 80% and I was wtf....
And honestly, no one gets 70% unless they are farming or if they are one trick ponies. Like it wouldn't be too hard to get 70% by playing striclty team games with a set team. I know I have over 70% win rate throughout my entire clan career, but that's also because I've been playing tons of games that made me know most of the maps.. And those games were not always taken seriously.
Any win rate needs analysing, there are too many factors to get an idea of a player through his win rate. but you can also correlate the win rate to the medals. If you see that the guy plays all kind of things through his medal stats, and he has the bot platinum achievement, you will already get a better idea of his profile.

[Arama86n]

I of course agree that one must look at MANY factors when judging a player. I simply meant that I have sometimes felt that win ratio has been a good eye opener.
Please don't do me the discourtesy of involving me in any grudge you have with loutil, he and I are in the same clan. And I'll simply say that what I've seen in-game so far, makes me very glad of it.
Let us leave it at that.

[betiko]

I of course agree that one must look at MANY factors when judging a player. I simply meant that I have sometimes felt that win ratio has been a good eye opener.
Please don't do me the discourtesy of involving me in any grudge you have with loutil, he and I are in the same clan. And I'll simply say that what I've seen in-game so far, makes me very glad of it.
Let us leave it at that.

No don't get me wrong, I wasn't getting you in any grudge with loutil, I apreciate the guy, got his version and we are all fine now. I just gave you this as an example of player that made me look deeper into his profile as I just couldn't figure how someone could have 80%+, as you know when we used to be clanamtes I brought it up when he first applied.

so back on subject: the win rate could never give you an idea of a player's profile if you didn't look at the amount of games played and medal types earned associated with it. The bots don't change this quick analyze as the bot medal the person has gives you a rough idea of the amount of bot games played of said player.

[Arama86n]

Fair enough.

You make some fair points.
So if they asked you, you would like it to remain as it is?
Because, despite your arguments, I'd still like them to remove that bot games works towards win percentage. It doesn't count towards score, and thus I don't feel it should count towards any stats except the bot medal.

[betiko]

Fair enough.

You make some fair points.
So if they asked you, you would like it to remain as it is?
Because, despite your arguments, I'd still like them to remove that bot games works towards win percentage. It doesn't count towards score, and thus I don't feel it should count towards any stats except the bot medal.

I've always asked to change the win rate to a relative win rate based on the expected win rate of each game type and adding it all up (say you have 33% in 3 player games, then it would be counted as 50% for example in your overall win rate). If such thing could be done, then of course remove the bot games to the win rate.
Since the win rate is crap as it is, removing the bot games would still make it crap. So no, I'm not in favour of half-fixing the problem. If something has to be done, it has to be done all the way. There's been tons of people asking for this type of win rate to replace the actual one, but lack, el jefe and big wham never seemed to care... I'm sure there are several threads about this in the suggestions, the best thing would be to try and revive the thread...

[rizky_biznezz]

Only some of my bot games counted to my completed games/win rate but I don't know which ones or if it changed and that's why only some of them were included.. I know they were included in Dec when I joined because that's mostly what I played and my totals were changing but then only some were being counted and there is 300+ games difference between my wall total and game finders results .. Sorry not really helpful I know lol

[Arama86n]

betiko, dear man: you Sir seem to have time on your hands, and ideas. I here by appoint you the shining white Knight in the cause of the lacklustre win-ratio documentation on CC.
Type up a declara... ug suggestion, and post in in Suggestions. And I will come and slap a mighty "Hear HEAR!!" to the thread.
If you do a good job, I'll even PM my whole friends list and ask that they read your post and offer support.
between our clans, and our friends clans, I'm sure we can get serious momentum going

This has been annoying me for years after all. Even before the degraded the situation further by mixing in the foul bot games.

Jokes aside, if you have time/energy/will to write a fresh suggestion, go for it. if not at least dig up the best thread that's been made about the issue, and let's try to seriously petition about this. It would be interesting to know if it's possible to get something changed around here.. I've never tried before.

[Lord Arioch]

I support this and will add our clan and my friend list to this endevour!
Go Betiko! Go

[iAmCaffeine]

Keep up kids, there was a good suggestion a while back already.

[betiko]

Keep up kids, there was a good suggestion a while back already.

well arama and myself aren't suggesting otherwise... It's been suggested multiple times and there is probably a huge "merged" thread out there. I might just go bump it!

[Arama86n]

Keep up kids, there was a good suggestion a while back already.

well arama and myself aren't suggesting otherwise... It's been suggested multiple times and there is probably a huge "merged" thread out there. I might just go bump it!

Always a downer when there is a merged thread. Once we do a write-up, we gotta convince some mod to edit the first post to display the best improved version of the suggestion.

EDIT: I'm going to take this to PM with betiko, and see if we can't get this done this weekend. Will get back to this thread once we have found a suitable suggestion, or improved/written one ourselves.
If anyone wants to contribute to forming a suggestion, PM me.