Deferred troops are such bullshit

[OliverFA]

I think the problem ManB is talking about is the combo of missing multiple turns, then plopping an extra 6 on the player that follows so that the other team doesn't have time to adjust/ hit down the stack. if it were just general deploying to load the person I don't think there would be a problem.

Perhaps deferred troops should be only deployable on the player and not on team members? That would solve the issue.

[BoganGod]

Okay, now I understand what you've been trying to say, because it sounded like you were saying that it was poor sportsmanship to stack a player to attack .

A lot of clans won't play conquest maps for that reason. Some of them are based entirely on luck... "who can get to the target first" and requires little strategy and yeah, they're boring. I don't think I've ever played one as part of a team though.

Take it from someone that has played a few thousand feudal war games. Conquest maps often come down to dice. Who has the better auto button finger, stack vs stack. Once you take map knowledge out of the equation(assume playing against equally skilled or competent opponents), then conquest maps are all dice, and timing the break(some luck, but mainly experience, see assumption about skill/competency).

[macbone]

Deferred troops are one way of not completely screwing a game for the other player's teammates. MB's example in the first post might result in a win sometimes, but let me tell you, if I'm playing a team game, the other team is welcome to miss all the turns they want. =)

A missed turn could very well spell defeat for the whole team, deferred troops or not.

In Conquer Club/Risk, attacker dice odds are better than defender dice odds if you're rolling more dice, i.e. 3v2, 3v1, and 2v1 situations (dice, not total armies). If a player misses two turns so they can intentionally drop a stack at the end of their third turn on a teammate, that's 2 full rounds of not being able to use those troops to either attack or defend.

Any team is welcome to try that tactic against me at any time. In fact, if anyone wants to try that out, shoot me a PM and we'll work out some practice games to test whether those tactics work or not. =)

Yes, it might work out sometimes, say in a game where the team with the deferred troops has been getting some great rolls, has a bonus that's defended from only one territory, and on either no spoils or nuclear spoils. An extra six troops on a bonus there would be great, I agree, and I'm sure there are other scenarios that fit that, too.

But in an Escalating/Flat Rate game, Deferred Strategy player's given up two turns of getting spoils, and that could very well cost his/her team the game.

I've never won a game due to deferred troops, but I've won plenty where the other team missed turns and pretty much gave us the game.

I'm not sure why the deferred troops rule is in place, but as a player who only takes 99% of my turns, I'm very happy that such a rule is in place. =) It takes the sting out of missing a turn a bit, but missing a turn hurts 95% of the time (and I'm just wildly picking a number out of the air here).

[Shannon Apple]

No gold or higher teammate medals in this thread so most of the complaints must be vs real teams. If I am playing a public team game this would rarely happen, team play I mean...

I highly doubt the level of medal someone has determines how good the teams they play with

As for the original post. I very rarely miss turns, but whenever I did, it usually cost me the game. You would have to have a specific strategy for getting away with that. I learned never to assume someone has quit when they miss a turn.

There are people who have tried it and it's just going to result in a "cheap tactics" rating from me.

[-Maximus-]

No gold or higher teammate medals in this thread so most of the complaints must be vs real teams. If I am playing a public team game this would rarely happen, team play I mean...

I highly doubt the level of medal someone has determines how good the teams they play with

Pointing out that this issue must be about well versed teams not random teams. I don't recall many random player team games where we could even deploy correctly, so stacking someone who is missing would be amazing.

No gold or higher teammate medals in this thread so most of the complaints must be vs real teams. If I am playing a public team game this would rarely happen, team play I mean...

hmmm.... funny with the importance people put on medals 'round these parts...

you don't have to have a platinum in teams to understand what the deal is here... deferred troops is MB's issue here... and I can clearly see what he's talking about.. not sure why you can't with all of your fancy medals...

Some of the posts turned into this is a "team" game but with 4 random players there will be no strategy like this. The teammate medal comment merely points out the fact that most of us do not just join any team game with strangers purely because of the lack of team play.

Basically with the medal comment, I wanted to see who would be butt hurt about medals and you won sir hmmm

[rhp 1]

No gold or higher teammate medals in this thread so most of the complaints must be vs real teams. If I am playing a public team game this would rarely happen, team play I mean...

I highly doubt the level of medal someone has determines how good the teams they play with

Pointing out that this issue must be about well versed teams not random teams. I don't recall many random player team games where we could even deploy correctly, so stacking someone who is missing would be amazing.

No gold or higher teammate medals in this thread so most of the complaints must be vs real teams. If I am playing a public team game this would rarely happen, team play I mean...

hmmm.... funny with the importance people put on medals 'round these parts...

you don't have to have a platinum in teams to understand what the deal is here... deferred troops is MB's issue here... and I can clearly see what he's talking about.. not sure why you can't with all of your fancy medals...

Some of the posts turned into this is a "team" game but with 4 random players there will be no strategy like this. The teammate medal comment merely points out the fact that most of us do not just join any team game with strangers purely because of the lack of team play.

Basically with the medal comment, I wanted to see who would be butt hurt about medals and you won sir hmmm

not at all... I've been here forever, never cared about medals in the least...if I did, I'd have them all... the medals I do have are simply a function of the games i enjoy playing... but many on here think they mean something so I made the comment... then tried to reroute your random rantings back to the point of why MB made the thread in the first place... though your point of not joining random team games due to lack of team play is well taken, however irrelevant it is to this thread

[-Maximus-]

not at all... I've been here forever, never cared about medals in the least...if I did, I'd have them all... the medals I do have are simply a function of the games i enjoy playing... but many on here think they mean something so I made the comment... then tried to reroute your random rantings back to the point of why MB made the thread in the first place... though your point of not joining random team games due to lack of team play is well taken, however irrelevant it is to this thread

Class of 2007
It is relevant in pointing out that teams that would do this are clearly doing so to gain advantage and do actually have team playing skills.

Referring to a challenge/tourney/etc. So this is added to the list of DQ worthy acts and we move on? Similar to breaking FOG rule and not saying what happened so the game is replayed.

[rhp 1]

not at all... I've been here forever, never cared about medals in the least...if I did, I'd have them all... the medals I do have are simply a function of the games i enjoy playing... but many on here think they mean something so I made the comment... then tried to reroute your random rantings back to the point of why MB made the thread in the first place... though your point of not joining random team games due to lack of team play is well taken, however irrelevant it is to this thread

Class of 2007
It is relevant in pointing out that teams that would do this are clearly doing so to gain advantage and do actually have team playing skills.

Referring to a challenge/tourney/etc. So this is added to the list of DQ worthy acts and we move on? Similar to breaking FOG rule and not saying what happened so the game is replayed.

fair enough...

[waltero]

Differed troops in a team game go unnoticed. Do not see a problem. Although, I am not a team game player. I only have 64 team games under my belt. Anywhoo, I for one am always glad to see it when a opponent (in a team game) misses a turn ( As Mackbona pointed out).

Missing a turn while playing in a multi singles game is a real Strategy (for some).
Sure it is dishonorable.
This is WAR! (Just as in real life) Some players are most Honorable Other have no honor.

Has a player ever been booted from CC for missing too many turns...I think not! House Rules have no power here.

[rhp 1]

Differed troops in a team game go unnoticed. Do not see a problem. Although, I am not a team game player. I only have 64 team games under my belt. Anywhoo, I for one am always glad to see it when a opponent (in a team game) misses a turn ( As Mackbona pointed out).

Missing a turn while playing in a multi singles game is a real Strategy (for some).
Sure it is dishonorable.
This is WAR! (Just as in real life) Some players are most Honorable Other have no honor.

Has a player ever been booted from CC for missing too many turns...I think not! House Rules have no power here.

for someone with so little experience, you're quite accurate in your analysis generally here

[Crazyirishman]

Differed troops in a team game go unnoticed. Do not see a problem. Although, I am not a team game player. I only have 64 team games under my belt. Anywhoo, I for one am always glad to see it when a opponent (in a team game) misses a turn ( As Mackbona pointed out).

Missing a turn while playing in a multi singles game is a real Strategy (for some).
Sure it is dishonorable.
This is WAR! (Just as in real life) Some players are most Honorable Other have no honor.

Except in war, you don't have the option to not use your army for a period of time and then suddenly get a magical boost to the total size of your army.

Has a player ever been booted from CC for missing too many turns...I think not! House Rules have no power here.

There have been a couple if I remember correctly, intentionally deadbeating or missing turns goes against the spirit of the game and falls under the ever so ambiguous category of "gross abuse of the game"

[OliverFA]

Except in war, you don't have the option to not use your army for a period of time and then suddenly get a magical boost to the total size of your army.

CC is not exactly what we could call a realistic wargame. Fortunatelly it becomes better as new updates are implemented, but if you look at the older settings, they are everything but realistic.

Escalating spoils - How do you explain that in "reality"? Just troops that come from nowhere according to some ethereal spoils/cards and in growing numbers.

Unlimited attack - How is it that troops never need to rest? Even if they have travelled across half world.

Deploying anywhere even if your territories are not connected - I suppose you can pretend they have planes. But why those plains are not used for reinfocement?

And what about absolutely forgetting about any kind of upkeep?

Then there is Fog of War, that is supposed to be realistic, but it's too black and white to be realistic. In real war armies can't see everything, but they are not completely blind either.

So deferred troops add to all those unrealistic settings. Personally I would prefer automatic deploy in case a turn is lost. That would be more realistic and less exploitable.

There is a public (not me) who enjoy all those unrealistic settings. As for me, I think that one of the biggest strengths of CC is being able to customize your game. That way we the "realism lovers" can have games who make a bit more sense.

[waltero]

I learned long ago, you should not try to bring logic into any game.
Just pointing out that All is fair in love and War...Honor, Dishonor.
Same in game same in War.

Not my point
Some games it is perfectly acceptable if not encouraged, to miss a turn (Dead beating).

[waltero]

If you want to think realistically (this game) You should not think of the dice as Luck. I Have no problem when the dice do not roll my way while involved in a game (any game). OK maybe it hurts a bit more in this game than It would in a different game (being that ''Dice'' is the name of this game).

Quote:Except in war, you don't have the option to not use your army for a period of time and then suddenly get a magical boost to the total size of your army.

Wrong. Many situations through out History, this has happened (including Magic or not)

Quote:Escalating spoils - How do you explain that in "reality"? Just troops that come from nowhere according to some ethereal spoils/cards and in growing numbers...Spartacus, Vacillating armies.

Anyway, you can bring up any amount of fallacy's as you can find (within this game) and I can come up with similar situations that Have occurred throughout History of War.

[OliverFA]

I know that there is no need to be logical/realistic for an strategy game to be enjoyable by some people. But some other people enjoy the game a lot more if it follows logic and represents reality as faithful as possible. It's ok to make some concessions to fun and playability, but some other concessions go far beyond.

It's the same as good SciFi and bad SciFi. In bad SciFi anything can happen "because hey! It's fantasy!" But good SciFi makes a lot of effort in establishing logical behaviours and rules and not breaking them just because. In SciFi terms, escalating spoils are Deus Ex-Machina solutions for bad cliffhangers

[waltero]

I use to make it a point to try and stay away from escalating spoils, games. But now I do not care so much, It is a challenge and a entirely different game if played with Escalating spoils.

Many things through out History have no logic...even in War (specially in WAR).

In order for some (people who want to bring logic, reality into a dice game), who like it to be believable, have to try and arrive at some conclusion that, though it is not logically derivable from the assumed premises, this game possesses some degree of probability relative to the premises (being War).

People get upset and talk about how it is Impossible to lose 20 armies against just one army...History (reality)
Can make rash inferences.
DO not think of them as dice (in any war game), EVER! It is a bad habit and will spoil many a game for you.

Reality is far more unbelievable at times than any Scifi movie out there.

How can 150,000 men fight of an army of one million strong (did happen).
How about 7 monks holding off an entire army for seven days, non stop 24-7 till the opposing army got fed up and left (fact in History).
Don't quote me on the exact numbers. I think they were actually worse than I stated.

Enjoy the Game.
Do not get so flustered when something out of the norm hits your game play. Understand it as reality and that you can not control your units...you just give orders and hope for the best.
No game is going to represent reality if you do not see it as such.

As you can see I really get into the Game!

We can always hope that CC will (some day) make some (real) game changes.
Seems to me the coding is too tedious and complicated. Nobody wants to touch it.
Keeping it simple, they are

[BoganGod]

waltero, have read some of your ramblings in other threads and you have talked out your arse. Inciting other players to hit the hat(assault the highest ranked person as a "legitimate" form of strategy), and other such lunacy.

You can only imagine my surprise when I took you off foe to read your comments in this thread. Your making a lot of sense. <doffs hat>
Don't like to change my opinion to often, admission that I've gotten it wrong. Hubris, ego, etc.

Hoping there is a face saving explanation for me. Maybe someone hi-jacked your account and posted nonsensical garbage, and you have now wrested back control? Or is this just a case of suck it up cupcake, Bogan you were wrong.

[Shannon Apple]

Nope, he's actually talking sense in this thread.