Mr Changsha wrote:Here are some thoughts on large 2.1 games (no cards and flat rate to a point...). I truly believe that it is possible to progress well (and win) from pretty much any opening position in a 2.1 8 man no cards game. The trick is knowing how to develop from all of the possible first bonuses. I am assuming the reader has a good basic understanding of the game and so am only giving tips and hints directly related to 2.1 play.
1. Consider that 2.1 involves continent bonuses, territory bonuses and territories. Good 2.1 play is not so simple as just thinking that you want North America or Europe. Maybe China, India, Middle East and The Horn would be more effective?
2. Play 'Strength in Depth' with territory bonuses i.e US and Canada, but then fort to a standard defence once you have the North American continent. Same with Scandinavia and Western Europe, leave stacks everywhere until you have the full Europe and then fort more traditionally.
3. EVERY starting positon i.e a single territory bonus, can lead to a strong position but the method of getting to it might well be very different. Therefore, don't discount any player in a 2.1 game as they might well expand suddenly and very effectively. One must learn how to develop from Scandinavia, or Australia, or The Horn or The US (to name a few) correctly, taking the board into account. All things being equal, is it better to go from The US to Central America and then up to Canada or the other way around? Or should you merely take part of Canada and then spread in the Amazonas? This kind of thing should be considered on round 1 or round 2 of a game. For example, in a game I am currently playing I started in Parana, took Central America, then US, then Amazonas and, though unusual, it was the correct way for that game.
4. Large numbers: 2.1 is interesting in that a winning position (in a no cards game) is probably getting around 35 to 40 troops a round - of course this is only a rough estimate, it does also depend on the board - and players should be working to reach that kind of number. How to get it? Classic spreads include Australasia, China and India while working on Russia for an almost lock (still probably need the Middle East) or Europe, Middle East and down into The Horn while also plunging into Canada. North America + Scandinavia while working into South America is another. With these kinds of large empires, remember to have your defences LOCKED before moving any further. There are so many ways into any Empire in a 2.1 game and most of your oppoenents will be able to create at least a 15 stack at will. All routes of attack must be completely blocked up before moving forward. I have seen many a winning position collapse very quickly due to the mistake of pushing too fast, even comparatively late in the game.
5. Never be afraid to completely change position in a 2.1 game. I have, for example, moved from Scandinavia to taking the whole of Australasia (and holding) in one move before mopping up China/India in the second. Feeling surrounded in Australasia with a mighty Asia on one side and a cocky North America on the other. Jump into South Africa/The Horn, fort everything out of Australasia and let those guys sort themselves out. This is dependent on playing 2.1 with unlimited forts, though similar moves can be made with chained forts too...just a fair bit more difficult.
Finally, some thoughts on the various starting positions...
1. Scandinavia: Great defensive spot to hang around in until round 20. Easy to defend with the possibilty of claiming the full Europe bonus (one of the best spots in the game). Go for it, but remember that one or even two other players might have the same plan. It is a popular spot. Route: Scandinavia, Middle East, The Horn, India.
2. Western Europe: If you have a very good opening spread in there play it hard and quickly take Scandinavia. Unless a good position, avoid it as you might well be overwhelmed by another player in the long run. Route: Western Europe, Scandinavia, Europe, Middle East
3. Mahgreb: In Mr C's humble opinion an absolute waste of energy as a first position, however it is quite a popular opening spot and has produced a strong position before. Entertain it with caution. Route: Mahgred to Africa? Happy to be corrected on this one. *revised* Though I have seen it played badly many times, I recently had success from here by seeing Mahgreb as the 'African China'. Large force in Algeria and then pushed for the full SA bonus.
4. The Horn: A good spot to begin. However, be aware that it can end up in an understrength mid.game position. The Horn, South Africa and The Middle East is fine, but no Middle East and you are highly unlikely to create a winning position. Route: The Horn, Middle East (see?), South Africa, Scandinavia (really!) or India.
5. South Africa: Tricky postion to begin from an not one to aim for. Connecting up with The Horn is a must.
6. Parana: Fine position, easy to defend. However, there is a lot of work to do if you want the full South America bonus, hence one often sees Parana players attempting the split position (parana + scandinavia for example) to generate income. Not a great idea. Route: Parana, Amazonas, into Mahgreg. Either push into Africa or North America.
7. Amazonas: Horrible first position. If someone reading likes it please write why!
8. Central: If there is no player in US jump for it. If there is a player in Canada, still think about it. Route: Central, US (stack in Amazonas) up to Canada.
9. US: Great position. Always play it with HUGE strength in depth and slowly work into Canada and Central America. Route: US,North America, Scandinavia...
10. Canada: Hard starting position with a similar route as US. However, as an alternative...Route: Canada, Scandinavia (they won't see it coming) Europe!
11. Russia: Nightmarish starting position unless you are lucky enough to have no player in China (highly unlikey). So many borders, so many threats. You'll end up with 20,20,20,20,20 in Russia with no place to go, assuming you hold it. Route: Russia, China (within the first few rounds).
12. China: Personal favourite: Keys are to keep Australasia quiet (or take it if you can) and as you take India and Russia make China itself just ridiculously HUGE. It defends everything. Route: (there are many) China, India, Russia, Middle East, Scandinavia.
13. India: Fine if you are starting early and can scare off anyone playing into China. Then take China and repeat. Alternative route: India, China, Middle East, Horn. Also fun.
14. Indonesia: Not a starting position. Really. Route...Indonesia, Australia, China...
15. Australia: Popular position. The trick is to secure Australasia BEFORE China can get India. Some of the most enjoyable battles come from these two positions. Route: Australia, Indonesia, China, India.
16. Middle East: While it is a major catch for the Africa player, the Europe player and the Asia player, the Middle East is sometimes held as an independent entity. Iraq is the key spot and arm it heavily just as you would China in the Far East position.
A lot of this is of course dependent on the individual player's ability to make the right decisions at the correct times.
I’ve played 53 games of World 2.1 (most 6-8 players), and gotten pretty good at it.
I like your strategies, but I see some minor things I’d do differently.
-I only read the first page of comments, I apologize if some of this has already been said.
I’ve played 53 games of World 2.1 (most 6-8 players), and gotten pretty good at it.
I like your strategies, but I see some minor things I’d do differently.
1. Scandinavia: In my experience, a better route would be Scandinavia, Western Europe, Europe, Middle East, The Horn. The reason for this is that while holding Scandinavia and Middle East you have to guard 6 borders vs the 4 for holding all of Europe. You can get the Western Europe bonus quicker than the Middle East one, and the entire Europe bonus is worth more in the long haul. Most players don’t go after the Middle East bonus until late game, while many will go for Western Europe.
6. Parana: I love this bonus, and rarely have a problem with income. A route that I’ve found faster is: Parana, Amazonas, Africa, Mexico. Mexico is much easier to take than Mahgreb, and requires no extra borders. Another great strategy if the Oceania player is engaged with the China one is to take over Oceania. Oceania is often times in the middle of a fight, and both of the players will be all in. Taking it over is often very easy, and a large fortify on Norwegian Claim (split force on Tierra Del Fuego and Western Australia as backup?) can protect both bonuses. I’ve found most pushes into Africa to be fruitless.
8. Central: This is an awful starting position, I highly advise passing it over. It usually ends up as a stack as it’s very hard to stop the Parana player from slowly taking it over (+1 reinforcement) especially with a US player to fight.
9. US: Hard to defend against aggressive players, easy to break, and hard to defend. I try to stay away from it as much as possible as Central has a clear shot at it: Central is a quicker bonus plus there’s only 1 territory to defend instead of 2.
12. Love it, my favorite route is: China, India, Oceania
15. Australia: Very dangerous starting position, can get away with it if there are fewer players, but in an 8 player game, it’s almost doomed due to the inability to fight a China/India player. If a player CAN conquer it and hold of the Chinese player, it can be a great position, but the chances are against the player.
16. Middle East is a waste. It’s very hard to control early, and players end up taking too long or being to weak to hold it especially against a player in The Horn. Diplomacy in this game can be a HUGE boost early on, but don’t overdo it, and always set a turn limit to a truce. Late game agreements can mess up your attacks, and stall the game.
