Kiron......8169476

[Army of GOD]

THIS THREAD IS NOW FOR POSTING PICTURES OF THE AUSTRALIAN THORNY DEVIL

[Evalaxis]

looks like a crazy red-head I dated in the 90s

[thegreekdog]

Hi!

I have a question - if the two users had a truce, and one user violated the truce, are the words "liar" and "cheater" flames? I tend to think they are not, but I would like to hear the opinions of Woodruff and owenshooter particularly. They seem to have some strong feelings on the subject.

Before answering the question, I would also like to point out that the words "liar" and "cheater" as well as other somewhat harsh words are used on a regular basis by many of our users to describe others, whether fairly or otherwise. In answering the first question, please consider whether you would like those of us in the junior mint mod squad to go back and take a look at other uses of these words to determine whether flaming has occured. I would like you to keep this in mind because I know the community wants us to be as fair and consistent as possible.

Thanks for the help!

TGD

[Victor Sullivan]

Hi!

I have a question - if the two users had a truce, and one user violated the truce, are the words "liar" and "cheater" flames? I tend to think they are not, but I would like to hear the opinions of Woodruff and owenshooter particularly. They seem to have some strong feelings on the subject.

Before answering the question, I would also like to point out that the words "liar" and "cheater" as well as other somewhat harsh words are used on a regular basis by many of our users to describe others, whether fairly or otherwise. In answering the first question, please consider whether you would like those of us in the junior mint mod squad to go back and take a look at other uses of these words to determine whether flaming has occured. I would like you to keep this in mind because I know the community wants us to be as fair and consistent as possible.

Thanks for the help!

TGD

Granted I'm not Jesus or a Trekkie, but I think they could be, yes. I think there would be better ways of phrasing what you want to get across through those tags. Maybe "Untrustworthy" for "Liar" would be best. As for "Cheater", that should just be thrown out. If someone cheated, it should be reported.

[Evalaxis]

As I originated the thread, it is probably of no surprise that I think these strong words are entirely appropriate in this circumstance. Mind you, I do not use these words lightly. In fact, I have never used them in context of CC. In this case, I believed that someone holding the rank of general would be brave and trustworthy. Sounds very naive now, but I have always played honorably, and felt shocked and disappointed to discover Kiron does not. Simply, when faced with possible defeat in several rounds, Kiron unilaterally and without warning wiped out all of my armies. If he felt the truce was no longer equitable, he should have given the courteous and custom, one round warning. Kiron instead whined that he didn't want a "stalemate" (read: defeat) and that was sufficient provocation for shooting me in the back.

[jimboston]

As I originated the thread, it is probably of no surprise that I think these strong words are entirely appropriate in this circumstance. Mind you, I do not use these words lightly. In fact, I have never used them in context of CC. In this case, I believed that someone holding the rank of general would be brave and trustworthy. Sounds very naive now, but I have always played honorably, and felt shocked and disappointed to discover Kiron does not. Simply, when faced with possible defeat in several rounds, Kiron unilaterally and without warning wiped out all of my armies. If he felt the truce was no longer equitable, he should have given the courteous and custom, one round warning. Kiron instead whined that he didn't want a "stalemate" (read: defeat) and that was sufficient provocation for shooting me in the back.

There is no "custom" one round warning,

The warning or notice is only applicable if that is what the two parties agree should be the fair way to end the truce.

Sometimes people say "one round warning"... I have seen some ask for "two round warning"... I have also seen truces that say they are valid "till round X".

Then there are those alliances which are not officially spelled out... where one party says "hey all we need to get Red, he's too big..." and everyone teams up on Red for awhile... but those types of actions have no formal means of termination (unless defined)... so there's no requirement to provide notice of termination.

[jimboston]

What round was it when he "broke" your truce. Reading through the logs it looks like you only had an official agreement through round 31... and it appears round 31 came.

Is that true?

If so... he didn't even break your truce.

[Evalaxis]

No, clearly it was not true. The truce was broken in round 28. Obviously, I would not be calling this person out if he had not so egregiously broken our agreement.

[owenshooter]

No, clearly it was not true. The truce was broken in round 28. Obviously, I would not be calling this person out if he had not so egregiously broken our agreement.

seriously,give it a rest... truces are for weak players and they only work WHEN BROKEN! there isn't a rule that a truce must be honoured... *rolling my eyes right out of my black jesus head*...-the black jesus

[Victor Sullivan]

No, clearly it was not true. The truce was broken in round 28. Obviously, I would not be calling this person out if he had not so egregiously broken our agreement.

seriously,give it a rest... truces are for weak players and they only work WHEN BROKEN! there isn't a rule that a truce must be honoured... *rolling my eyes right out of my black jesus head*...-the black jesus

*picks up owen's eyes off the floor and runs* I'd like to see the black jesus browse the forums now! (Haha, I'm so great...)

[Evalaxis]

Your opinions are irrelevant to me "Owenshooter"

[Karl_R_Kroenen]

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=146919&p=3208795#p3208795

[tennischamp5]

Hmm... truces are a part of the game, and breaking them equally so. Nothing holds you to uphold a truce outside your own honor, and in a standard game, if breaking a truce it what leads to your victory, why not?. The point is to win the game, not purposely lose for the sake of honoring a truce.

[IcePack]

I've had truces and seen em broken, nothing new. I believe there are several social clubs u can find in call outs where u can find games with people who are of similar mind sets.

Clubs that like diplomacy, clubs that don't. Clubs that keep their word, etc. Go join one and enjoy their company.

IcePack

[oVo]

Unscrupulous? Yes! A Cheat? No! A flaming thread? No way.
So cool yer jets owen, it will all get back to normal soon.

Kiron is not true to his word in a War Game. Oops. So the OP
was a bit long winded in cautioning the CC community about
Kiron's actions. Sue him... or block him if it chaps your butt.

There is no honor among thieves and dictators...
and many online game players.

[SirSebstar]

he is a liar!!! he is a cheater!!!! revoke his membership!!!! *insert more flames here*!!!!...-the black jesus

by that token any post in the C&A is a flame... cool down owen. There are flames and flames.. Someone breaking a truce is a liar and a cheat. Someone calling a liberal commie, now thats a flame

[Sword Master]

I'll avoid playing against both kiron and evalaxis because they clearly don't respect the rules of CC! Not because of in game chat but game chat on others walls!

[oVo]

there isn't a rule that a truce must be honored...

Absolutely correct, truces are a part of the game, both honored and broken.

No rule was broken. No flame was committed, even though Kiron did not cheat.
It's a lack of character that's exposed here for his "do anything to win attitude"
but he doesn't care about his reputation, so there's nothing to discuss here.

Kiron is a player who can't be trusted, which is an interesting point since everyone
in the game starts with the same goal in mind. Eliminate all opposition. Still there
are players here who are trustworthy and back up their words by their actions.

Broken truces and backstabbers are part of this game. Outing backstabbing, truce
breakers as players with no scruples about how they play is also part of this game.

+1 in support of the op.

[tennischamp5]

I'll avoid playing against both kiron and evalaxis because they clearly don't respect the rules of CC! Not because of in game chat but game chat on others walls!

lol, that was one occasion. Everyone screws up once in a while. Don't think it's fair to judge him forever on that one offense.

Maybe Kiron can't be trusted, but in all honesty, if you trust anyone you're playing a non-team cc game with, you're going to lose.

[safariguy5]

If you don't want this to happen, either

1. Don't make truces.

2. Play team games.

I've made suggestions in game chat about whether someone is getting strong, but I usually don't make truces, and I don't offer them either. You're just asking for trouble then, and good players usually can recognize the game leader and focus on him.

[Dukasaur]

Obviously one should never have too much faith in a truce, but to say that it's stupid to honour truces is nonsense. Just like in real life, it's not one or the other. There's a continuum between "totally honest" and "totally dishonest" and while a few might have a perfect record at either extreme, most people will fall somewhere in the middle.

So just as in real life, I basically trust my neighbours not to rob me blind, but I'm still not going to leave my wallet laying in the middle of the driveway, so in CC I trust most people to honour truces and pacts but I'm always preparing for the alternative.

And furthermore, there's nothing wrong with someone posting about an individual whom they found to be particularly dishonest: again following my real-life analogy, if I did catch one of my neighbours stealing from me, I would be sure to tell my other neighbours to keep their eyes open.

[oVo]

OMG! That's so logical even Woodward might have to agree.

Btw... I agree with safariguy. Most players don't require a truce
to do what needs to be done, but some players need a bit of
reassurance so they can sleep at night.