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Diplomacy Training (Fog of war answer included)

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Diplomacy Training (Fog of war answer included)

Postby TheTrust on Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:35 am

Hey guys, I've read quite a bit about fog of war confusion and such so I figured I'd ask the best in the game and find out whats really up asking him to keep it objective and not subjective. He sent me an email on diplomacy with Fog of war. Here is a portion of it. It deals with the sharing of information and what is wrong (if anything) with giving information in games. This is a portion of Beast's training email regarding overall diplomacy.


In Fog of war, you work with a limited ammount of set information. In addition to your armies and dice, you can use your opponents by connecting dots and manipulating them. You can over-exaggerate a player's advantage, you can claim to see an army of X ammount of men on your border to try and deter a more immediate threat from you (if it'll work)

Most people who find this a "pet peeve" are players who have taken a powerful bonus and dont like the information sharing of where their armies are, in short cooperation or teaming against them. If people are telling other people things, heres an idea, counter it. These other players that are recieving this information are probably recieving it because the giver knows they cant see this portion of the map, if they cant see this portion of the map, then you can counter-claim and make it their word against yours. Likely at the end the other players will have to attack that way to find out for themselves or just drop any inclination in that area because they dont know which information is accurate.

Diplomacy is a huge part of this game, in non fog games, you need a legitimate diplomacy stance that convinces another player (or other players) to make decisions that favour you based on all the information on the table. Everyone has access to it. Fog of war is a different zoo. Players only have access to certain regions so you need to map out not only where you're powerful but scope to see what other players are probably dealing with as well, most times in fog of war games players are inclined to deal with 1 portion of the map and spend a good ammount of time securing it before expanding. Before initiating deals against a certain player, you need to make sure no one is in a huge position to call your bluff (if indeed you are bluffing). Sometimes a player that recieves the message "player X has ZZZ ammount of men on Y territory, watch out" Can shortly if not immediately see that area, they may call the bluff or they may use the disinformation to their advantage, supporting it falsely to give yet another player in the game reason to fear, both the sender and reciever of the message know it is false and the player itself knows they dont have that army but the "hot potato" is being passed around, the only player who will object is the player holding that area being falsely represented and at 2 vs 1, the odd player out may feel inclined to believe the 2 (much to the frustration of the player who really doesnt have this army as he is teamed on by 3 players)

In short, you need to work on manipulating information, in nonfog games, you do that by convincing people of an immediate threat, you tell them what they can already see, and explain why it is a problem for them, here, your wording must be precise and effective because they have the same information you do, you are not expecting them to take your word for it, you must convince them of the threat that they have already brushed off in their mind while focussing on you (likely)

In fog, you are looking to place more value on your "word of mouth". You are convincing people of a potential threat, not an immediate, let the game log do that for you. Your job in gaining good diplomacy (in anygame, fog or not) is to realize that you can get a step up by attacking and gaining territory, and equally by not being attacked once your done. You have control over what you attack with dice and deployments, your mouse. Your control over what happens to you while your turn is ended depends on your mindgames and ability to manipulate words.
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Diplomacy Training (Fog of war answer included)

Postby Usurper on Fri Feb 15, 2008 7:58 am

Heheh, Yeah, I'd agree completely. Haven't played too many 'fog' games but have tried mounting discussion of what's cool to divulge or not. In my limited experience the players tended not to talk about it (ie who had what territories) but I reckon it's probably a closer version of real war/strategy if talking about it, bluffing, misinformation, etc is done openly. In the 'real' world we have allies, radios, recon, etc...Up to the generals to decide how to use 'em.
So I'm taking this on board and gonna start saying what the hell I want...and trust no one's reply either!
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Postby pmchugh on Sun Feb 17, 2008 7:23 pm

thanks for that, i am relitevly new here and have yet to win a game. In this game 1776124 i get off to a good start and get three sub-continents and then mr orange hits out with "hope you guys ara taking notice to greys growth" me being grey next thing i know i lose one of my continents and orange himself places a good number of armies next to me in mexico, i now feel under pressure and im pretty sure everyones attention is now on me its still early doors but im no. 1 on every ones hitlist, im unsure on my next step do i reply or just strenghin and forget about it? cheers for your help Pete.
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fun with Fog

Postby Iron Butterfly on Tue Feb 19, 2008 8:44 pm

I need to jump in here.

At first I hated fog of war. But I am playing the most fun game so far in my short CC history. I tend to prefer the no card type of games as one really needs to conserve armies, take into account the risks and realize that there will be no cavelry to bail them out.

Most of my games up until this point have been quiet affairs but lately I have found that being chatty has made the game more interesting.

http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=1634881

At one point I thought I had the gam as I had two territories. My mistakke was assuming that the yellow player had been beaten down. I break two continents and run smack dab into yellow,who has 20 armies. He in turn breaks me...blue breaks my other territory.

Somehow or for some reason yellow did not finish me and everyone regroups.

The chat gives an idea of the fun of not knowing and the bs involved.

I offered an alliance to someone next to me who in turn tried to ally with yellow and build on my border. the balance of power is now very much in the air

good times.
/ramble off
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Postby Plutoman on Tue Feb 19, 2008 8:53 pm

I've noticed it's usually helpful to try to use the fog of war to hide when you have a continent, and let other players think that the continents are shared by players other than themselves.

Many times, from what I've seen, they won't ask whether the other players have anything there, but will automatically assume.

Proved helpful in several games of mine.
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