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Postby kingprawn on Sun Jan 27, 2008 7:21 am

Robinette wrote:Well it is possible that he's figured out an improvement to the dice patch i shared awhile back... i only worked on trying to improve my own dice, but perhaps he came up with a way to worsen his opponents dice at the same time.... and if he figured that out, he deserves every point, cause that's a insane boat load of work to do to prepare for a single turn...

For those who are interested, i am reposting the details from 4/1/07 that explains the basics...

Robinette wrote:Okay, I think we can all agree that Random dice CAN be streaky, and that is in itself part of being Random... Fortunately there are fewer than 2% of players benefiting from a dice patch, and the benefit is much smaller than most people realize. Some of you already know how difficult the patch is to manipulate the color of cards, but for those who haven't tried it, the dice patch is much much harder and only adds 1 to less than 40% of the dice.

Adding 1 to less than 40% of the dice does NOT make you invincible, you will still lose LOTS of rolls, it is clearly only a SMALL advantage, about equivalent to the advantage of using greasemoney... so clearly even with that advantage it's not like there is some sort-of "golden" dice club dominating and controlling the dice. Lucky streaks and unlucky streaks remain the key element here.

Most use Greasemonkey because it is easy, a few use the card patch because it is hard, but VERY FEW use the dice patch because it is EXTREMELY DIFFICULT. And I personally think that anybody who takes the time to do it, deserves the small advantage it affords. For those who are interested, here's how it's done:

First off, it is all about the Cyclomatic Code Complexity within the dice algorithm . The simple part to explain is that on this site the dice algorithm code complexity is defined by control flow, and obviously there are different ways of measuring complexity (e.g. data complexity, module complexity, algorithmic complexity, call-to, call-by, etc.), and although these other methods are effective in the right context, it seems to be generally accepted that control flow is one of the most useful measurements of complexity, and high complexity methods have been shown to be a strong indicator of low reliability and frequent errors. That's simple enough, but it's what we do with it that's so cool... This measure provides a single ordinal number that can be compared to the complexity of other methods. Because of static software metrics intended to be independent of language and language format, Cyclomatic Code Complexity becomes a measure of the number of linearly-independent paths through a program module and is calculated by counting the number of decision points found in the code. Stay with me people... I use a Lutz Roeders Reflector which basically allows the user to point his Reflector tool at any Common Langauge Runtime (CLR) assembly, and it will then de-compile this creating an entirely reflected treeview with all the objects from the source assembly shown, with code. Yes with code. Great stuff. Basically you can use this tool to see how any valid CLR (assuming it has not been obfuscated) assembly works. Anyway the up shot of it, is that we get a boolean to say that the current file is valid or not, that is all we care about at the moment. So if the file requested is not a valid CLR type an error message is shown, and nothing else is done. However, if the input file is a valid CLR file, it is then checked to see if the file is a "System" assembly, and if it is... eureka! You get an extra digit on the dice. Ok so thats pretty much all there is to it.



I was right with you up untill well :?: :?: :?: :?:
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Postby owenshooter on Sun Jan 27, 2008 10:38 am

hecter wrote:You know, should we really be letting people who hack the dice and cards remain on CC? :?


what is the big issue? i paid lack for my dice hack, just like i paid for my premium. i don't get what the big deal is. it isn't a hack if you buy it from lack, right?-0
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Postby Robinette on Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:38 pm

owenshooter wrote:
hecter wrote:You know, should we really be letting people who hack the dice and cards remain on CC? :?


what is the big issue? i paid lack for my dice hack, just like i paid for my premium. i don't get what the big deal is. it isn't a hack if you buy it from lack, right?-0


now that's just silly....
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Postby Knight2254 on Sun Jan 27, 2008 11:33 pm

Just to update you guys and gals, I couldn't come back in that game. I did beat him in a rematch though. :lol:
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Postby oVo on Mon Jan 28, 2008 1:09 am

It's really a good thing that you got it out of the way as now you're kind of pre-disastered,
and the odds are pretty much against such a thing ever happening again.
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Postby Fruitcake on Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:13 pm

I am staggered at the so called randomisarion of dice here.

I have rolled over 80 triple 1s in the last 1000 rolls, way over the odds. if you add the number of times I have had double 1s with one other dice of 2/3 or 4 that figure rises to a staggering 187.

I am also amazed electronic manipulation of any kind is allowed in the game...I paid for the privlege of playing here, I will not be paying again.

If someone tampered with the dice in the real world you would accuse them of being a cheat (for that is what they are)
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Postby owenshooter on Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:28 pm

Fruitcake wrote:I am also amazed electronic manipulation of any kind is allowed in the game...I paid for the privlege of playing here, I will not be paying again.


*snicker* maybe you should start a thread about the dice. i don't think that has been done before.-0
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Postby AAFitz on Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:33 pm

well, I guess its proof that you actually can sell your soul for good dice :twisted:

every once in a while ill get someone auto with every three, or ill do it at the end of the game to finish it up... its amazing what they can actually do sometimes, its not a good idea at all, but if you have nothing to lose, it can be useful

i have seen 3's do this... my best dice were against d cowboys in a dubs game... i wasnt losing, and i just kept going, and every one of my threes was winning every battle, we had the other team dead on round 2 except for 2 armies... you dont see it often, because you cant take the chance usually, but if they keep winning, and you get past the point of no return, theres just no reason to stop... if it so happens a massive win streak coincides with your timing on a game... this can happen...

quite frankly if someone was smart enough to make the dice this good, i dont think they'd be foolish enough to use them that much... theyd use the option only when necessary in big games that were untraceable and would gain big points. Robinette has it down pat.
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Postby Twill on Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:57 pm

Wow, That sucks.

That being said, it's probably not a hack...he had 7 armies in brazil, which, if he lost none along the way, should, theoretically, leave him with enough to fortify brazil with.

Robinette, that is an amazing hack :roll: we will be looking into it :roll: in the near future :roll: because the Cyclomatic Turbidity Meter thingy looks to be broken if you are ably to pull a Lotz Rodent Really on us. And that Complete Lie Really (CLR) Assembly thing shouldn't be reporting any system files...I enjoyed the read though :)

Now, back to reality...

If you want the chi-squared numbers on our dice rolls, I think subdork ran an analysis a while back on it...it showed that we were well below "not random" cutoff lines...
Last edited by Twill on Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby steelerfan24 on Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:58 pm

oVo wrote:The potential of 6 armies taking out 15 armies while conquering 5 territories is highly unlikely, but it's obviously not "not possible" because it happened here. Red not only did it in this game, but also those same 6 armies took those 5 countries without a single loss, Afganistan --the last of the 5 conquered-- fortified Brazil with one army* at the end of the turn.

* which is one too many armies.


Actually, not. He conquered Venezuela attacking with 7 on Brazil, apparently didn't lose any, so six were left on Brazil. He then took N. Africa, advancing 5, then 4 to Egypt, 3 to Mid-East, and 2 to Afghanistan, so he could move one to Brazil. I think you forgot he got 4 armies to deploy.

Round One wrote:2008-01-26 03:09:51 - HELLS ANGEL attacked Kamchatka from Japan and conquered it from Knight2254
2008-01-26 03:10:17 - HELLS ANGEL attacked Irkutsk from Kamchatka and conquered it from Knight2254

This is what I find most amazing. He attacked 2 dice vs. 2 dice, then 1 dice vs. 2 dice, and won both without casualties. Such luck.
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Postby oVo on Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:59 pm

I was in a game holding Oceania with 58 armies on Hawaii and a guy took 52 armies and broke it. Which wasn't that bad odds wise, but it didn't stop there... because he also conquered 15 more territories and still had armies left over to fort the borders.
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