Conquer Club

Specificly, the rules about play types. It's more about the layout of the paragraphs.

I just killed off an assassination game by accident when I finished off another player. I then went back and reread the rules for that style of game - and a bit hard to find. Because the second part of the winning conditions - if your target is taken out by another player - comes after a page break, it can be rather easy to miss that little tidbit if you arn't really careful when reading it.

I feel that something like that - and the bit regarding deadbeating - is important enough that it should be in point form.

What did you expect would happen when you killed someone who wasn't your target?

Timminz wrote:What did you expect would happen when you killed someone who wasn't your target?

Like in a game of Killer (look it up on Google, 'Killer+liveaction') if you eliminate a player who wasn't your target, then his target would go to the player targeting him.

Example:

An assassination game is set up like this:

Player A -> Player B
Player B -> Player C
Player C -> Player D
Player D -> Player A

Now, let's say that Player B takes out Player A, say because Player B has figured that Player A is the one gunning for him and decides to go on the offensive instead of being defensive. The assassination board now looks like this:

Player B -> Player C
Player C -> Player D
Player D -> Player B


Or is that how Terminator works?

Dave67 wrote:

Timminz wrote:What did you expect would happen when you killed someone who wasn't your target?

Like in a game of Killer (look it up on Google, 'Killer+liveaction') if you eliminate a player who wasn't your target, then his target would go to the player targeting him.

Example:

An assassination game is set up like this:

Player A -> Player B
Player B -> Player C
Player C -> Player D
Player D -> Player A

Now, let's say that Player B takes out Player A, say because Player B has figured that Player A is the one gunning for him and decides to go on the offensive instead of being defensive. The assassination board now looks like this:

Player B -> Player C
Player C -> Player D
Player D -> Player B


Or is that how Terminator works?

That's not how terminator works now, but I think it is a good idea.

I think its a good idea to change the rules instead of simply clarifying them.

So many people make this mistake in assassin games, it really makes the unenjoyable. Also there are many positions where you simply cannot win under the current rules - taking out your target requires you to weaken someone else's target too much, leaving them vulnerable.

The targets already rotate as suggested when a player deadbeats. Why not fix assassin games and rotate targets if you eliminate someone other than your own?

sully800 wrote:I think its a good idea to change the rules instead of simply clarifying them.

So many people make this mistake in assassin games, it really makes the unenjoyable. Also there are many positions where you simply cannot win under the current rules - taking out your target requires you to weaken someone else's target too much, leaving them vulnerable.

The targets already rotate as suggested when a player deadbeats. Why not fix assassin games and rotate targets if you eliminate someone other than your own?

I vote no. That would make it way to hard to cheat.




Who said that?

sully800 wrote:I think its a good idea to change the rules instead of simply clarifying them.

So many people make this mistake in assassin games, it really makes the unenjoyable. Also there are many positions where you simply cannot win under the current rules - taking out your target requires you to weaken someone else's target too much, leaving them vulnerable.

The targets already rotate as suggested when a player deadbeats. Why not fix assassin games and rotate targets if you eliminate someone other than your own?

I disagree.
If you're playing an 8 way, Foggy, Assassin, Freestyle game and you don't have time to check the log and/or an add-on to see how many regions another player has you may end up eliminating them by accident. This sounds more like the "assassinator" game type suggested a while back in that the targets rotate in some way when one is killed.

Hooray for garbled online forum replies

Dave67 wrote:Specificly, the rules about play types. It's more about the layout of the paragraphs.

I just killed off an assassination game by accident when I finished off another player. I then went back and reread the rules for that style of game - and a bit hard to find. Because the second part of the winning conditions - if your target is taken out by another player - comes after a page break, it can be rather easy to miss that little tidbit if you arn't really careful when reading it.

I feel that something like that - and the bit regarding deadbeating - is important enough that it should be in point form.

I agree. The rules in general are in desperate need of an overhaul. With any luck this will come sometime soon.

chipv wrote:

Dave67 wrote:Specificly, the rules about play types. It's more about the layout of the paragraphs.

I just killed off an assassination game by accident when I finished off another player. I then went back and reread the rules for that style of game - and a bit hard to find. Because the second part of the winning conditions - if your target is taken out by another player - comes after a page break, it can be rather easy to miss that little tidbit if you arn't really careful when reading it.

I feel that something like that - and the bit regarding deadbeating - is important enough that it should be in point form.

I agree. The rules in general are in desperate need of an overhaul. With any luck this will come sometime soon.

Not promising anything, but let me see what I can do

EDIT: Although, just to clarify it would be going over the Instructions page, not the Rules page (I know that's what you were referring to, but just making sure I clarified).

Thanks guys. I'm glad that I've started up a decent discussion. (I've had too many times where I've gotten a lot of flak tosssed my way when I've suggested something along these lines. Not saying that that was going to happen here, but I was a bit worried that it might.)

[Edited for typo that sneeked by me.]

No problem...like Sully said, it's definitely not the first time somebody has done this in Assassin.

I personally think rotating assassins would be an interesting idea. n00b, how would it make it easy to cheat?

I can see how it would be easy to annoy someone - they are about to take out a kill, you knock them out and it rotates them to someone with a massive stack. They would pull their hair out while you chuckle quietly to yourself, but I don't see how you could "cheat" (without a multi, but that's a problem for another reason)

Maybe I'm just not good at seeing ways to cheat...unlike some

Twill

Twill wrote:I personally think rotating assassins would be an interesting idea. n00b, how would it make it easy to cheat?

I can see how it would be easy to annoy someone - they are about to take out a kill, you knock them out and it rotates them to someone with a massive stack. They would pull their hair out while you chuckle quietly to yourself, but I don't see how you could "cheat" (without a multi, but that's a problem for another reason)

Maybe I'm just not good at seeing ways to cheat...unlike some

Twill

I got the impression he was being sarcastic. It seems to me that this would make it more difficult to cheat.

damm my post did not get through.
anyways this below will not work, what if you took out not your assassin but someone else's target?
now you are 2 person's targets..

sigh
just a simple rewrite is needed (or the removal of assassin)
You can win an assassin game only by killing your target. When you kill a player that is not your target, you grant victory to another player.

Dave67 wrote:Example:

An assassination game is set up like this:

Player A -> Player B
Player B -> Player C
Player C -> Player D
Player D -> Player A

Now, let's say that Player B takes out Player A, say because Player B has figured that Player A is the one gunning for him and decides to go on the offensive instead of being defensive. The assassination board now looks like this:

Player B -> Player C
Player C -> Player D
Player D -> Player B

SirSebstar wrote:anyways this below will not work, what if you took out not your assassin but someone else's target?
now you are 2 person's targets..

The only way you could end up being someone's new target, is if you've killed the person who had you as a target originally. That would still leave you with only one assassin on your trail.

woops, I mis-read n00b's post. I'm embarrassed

And seb, because assassin is always in a circle, you would never get yourself as a target and you would never be targeting or targeted by 2 people.

If Twill targets Seb, and Seb targets Timminz and Timminz targets n00b and n00b targets Twill

Twill eliminates n00b (who is targeting me) and Timminz is now targeting me (because his target is now eliminated)

Twill>Seb>Timminz>n00b>Twill
becomes
Twill>Seb>Timminz>Twill

If timminz eliminates Twill, then the following happens

Twill>Seb>Timminz>n00b>Twill
Becomes
Seb>Timminz>n00b>Seb

So, n00b is now targeting Seb instead of Twill.

It's a simple removal of a point in a circle so it will always be unique and always non-self (until you eliminate the last opponent at least )

This could help a lot of newbies who make the mistake of taking out the wrong person (although this game type is hidden from New Recruits I think)

Won't that just mean that you can kill whoever you want, thereby effectively making the assassin style of gameplay pointless? If I can accidentally kill someone else, then get a new target, I can just kill anyone, until I happen to be in position to kill my own target. Seems a bit pointless to me.

Optimus Prime wrote:Won't that just mean that you can kill whoever you want, thereby effectively making the assassin style of gameplay pointless? If I can accidentally kill someone else, then get a new target, I can just kill anyone, until I happen to be in position to kill my own target. Seems a bit pointless to me.

you wouldnt get a new target my killing somone, the only way you could get a new target is if someone else kills your target

Also, if someone comes up just short of eliminating their target, anyone else could just finish the job, completely negating the work that had just been done.

Timminz wrote:Also, if someone comes up just short of eliminating their target, anyone else could just finish the job, completely negating the work that had just been done.

all part of the strategy then

Optimus Prime wrote:Won't that just mean that you can kill whoever you want, thereby effectively making the assassin style of gameplay pointless? If I can accidentally kill someone else, then get a new target, I can just kill anyone, until I happen to be in position to kill my own target. Seems a bit pointless to me.

Agreed, OP.

The luck of the drop sometimes does mean you're pretty much doomed to lose; in Assassin, you can be located so far away from your target that getting to the target is nearly impossible. In other maps, you can be dropped in such a manner that garnering forces is difficult at best, while opponent gets dropped on a bonus. But changing Assassin so that you can continue killing until you find your proper target would make Assassin pretty much a regular game. Easier even; in a regular game you must eliminate everyone. In a "kill until I can kill my own target" game you would not have to strategize as much about who to leave sufficiently strong to withstand another assassin, but would be able to win without eliminating "everyone". Less "Assassin" than "Twisted Terminator."

Twill wrote:I personally think rotating assassins would be an interesting idea. n00b, how would it make it easy to cheat?

I said it would make it "too hard" to cheat, jokingly taking the side of cheaters who eliminate each others' targets. So, reading between the lines, I was actually supporting the idea



*edit* and then i noticed that there was actually 2 pages to this thread......

Jeff Hardy wrote:

Timminz wrote:Also, if someone comes up just short of eliminating their target, anyone else could just finish the job, completely negating the work that had just been done.

all part of the strategy then

I'd be curious to see such a game in which you can 'block' a kill by simply killing the target yourself -- it would be sheer chaos...

I made the same mistake myself recently, I had assumed that by denying the kill, the person trying to kill the eliminated player would be reassigned to eliminate that players target.

Putting a system like that in place would allow for the effects of deadbeat and confused players to be reduced to a non game-ruining level.