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Missing Turns

PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:44 am
by HardAttack
Missing Turns
  • In any game i play in CC,i see that missed turns have a lot of negative sides. It makes games last longer. It makes games unpredictable. Regular turn takers develope their strategies based on regular cases. Namely they assume that every other single player will take their turns regularly. Once it doesnt happen, then their strategies may collapse or may suffer. This situation defines significant uncertainity for those players who take their turns regularly. There is enough uncertainity just because of the game is being played with dice, and this second branch of uncertainity is a bit much and boring.

Specifics:
  • Please change the current 3 consequetive missing turn to be the sanction of autokicking from the game into a total of 3 (or less)missed turns regardless of they are consequetive missed turns or not to be the sanction of autokick.

This will improve the following aspects of the site:
  • Games will not get stuck therefore this will increase overall games speed.
  • The uncertainity of games will be bounded with some certain limits and hopefully will decrease.

Re: Missing Turns

PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 9:15 am
by isavem1
I agree with your post!!

I would also like to see someone get kicked out for missing their first turn. If you can't make your first turn you are either a deadbeat or trying to take an advantage by missing your turn.

Thanks for the post!

Re: Missing Turns

PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 5:19 pm
by Artimis
This sort of thing has already been suggested, it states on the home page of this site that this game is designed for the casual user. People have busy lives and don't always have time to stop and take their turns, real life intrudes unfortunately. So it would be unfair to weight this system against players in a Casual No Cards build game.

Re: Missing Turns

PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:48 pm
by Woodruff
isavem1 wrote:I agree with your post!!
I would also like to see someone get kicked out for missing their first turn. If you can't make your first turn you are either a deadbeat or trying to take an advantage by missing your turn.
Thanks for the post!


I find myself just as frustrated as you by people who miss turns. However, the fact of the matter is that it IS NOT AN ADVANTAGE to miss a turn. AT BEST, they still have all of their territories intact and they get to place the two sets of armies they would have gotten at once (instead of spread over the two turns), and they missed one opportunity to attack.

Myself, I don't like that they get ALL their armies back, but the best alteration to this that I've heard is that their "missed armies" be spread over their territories randomly (after they play their next turn, as it is now) rather than their getting to place them personally. That way they are not overly hamstrung by having missed, but it also takes some away from the PERCEIVED advantage that they appear to gain. There's a thread regarding this somewhere (I don't see the link in my quick search).

Re: Missing Turns

PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 8:00 am
by HardAttack
Whatever the turn missing ppl misses to stay aside, they defect predictability of the game. They suffer from that they dont receive cards etc, what if game is no spoil game ? In real life, there is no excuse for a general if he doesnt exist in the battlefield at the time he was supposed to be. This system protects and rewards turn missers.
I m not calling it to be kicked at the first missed turns of them but 3 missed turns, and not in total but should be consequetive is a bit much.

Re: Missing Turns

PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 2:13 pm
by Woodruff
HardAttack wrote:Whatever the turn missing ppl misses to stay aside, they defect predictability of the game. They suffer from that they dont receive cards etc, what if game is no spoil game ? In real life, there is no excuse for a general if he doesnt exist in the battlefield at the time he was supposed to be. This system protects and rewards turn missers.
I m not calling it to be kicked at the first missed turns of them but 3 missed turns, and not in total but should be consequetive is a bit much.


The system here protect turn-missers, yes. However, as I explained in my post above, it does not reward them.

Re: Missing Turns

PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 4:00 pm
by isavem1
I still say if you miss your first turn you should be out! I don't care about life and all that crap. Play the game or don't.

Of the last 8 games or so that I have played 6 of them had a first turn deadbeat and 5 of those never showed.

Adam

Re: Missing Turns

PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 6:25 pm
by lordmcfuzz
First I would like to say that i agree with HardAttacks view:
HardAttack wrote:Whatever the turn missing ppl misses to stay aside, they defect predictability of the game. They suffer from that they dont receive cards etc, what if game is no spoil game ? In real life, there is no excuse for a general if he doesnt exist in the battlefield at the time he was supposed to be. This system protects and rewards turn missers.
I m not calling it to be kicked at the first missed turns of them but 3 missed turns, and not in total but should be consequetive is a bit much.


I do like the random placement idea too.

My experience:
Take this game in progress: Game 4186708
The player missed a turn, oh well, I could care less, his loss. Then I move foward and do as planned. then he takes his turn, oh i think it was an hour after he missed his turn. He takes his turn and the plops the 16 troops on a single territory and then his next turn uses them, it just so happens to be me, my luck of course. Then he misses yet another turn and the new round implements and he takes his turn 2 hours after he just missed it. playes his turn out and the plops his 22 troops on yet again another single plot. I believe his next turn would carry out taking a massive amout of territoires giving him an unfair advantage, while I, a player who takes everyone of his turns works to build my empire turn by turn and just gets destroyed because he got to use double the troops. So I thought of it, I could miss my turn in a game, have my territories weather it out, then my next turn i put my regular troops on, do my thing, then i get my missed turn troops on, getting ready for next turns attack phase. next turn i put my troops to help my missed turn troops attack and i would be sitting pretty, and oh i can do the exact same thing next turn

I think there could be a few fixes to this current game play. either remove the deferred troops from the mix, or prevent a pile troops being dumped on one territory, like put a cap of 3 per territory, that still get them, but it is not going to directly benefit them offensively. The latter suggestion protects the player that missed a turn, not help them go on the offensive

I believe that if a player misses a turn, that should be it. If me and my friends are playing, and one stands up and has to go someplace they either leave instructions to another player on what to do or we wait and they don't appear to be coming any time soon we skip it and move on. they come back, probably say "what the hell guys, why did you skip me?" and they learn their lesson and leave instructions or just stay and take their turns.
We don't let them put their troops they missed, we played as if his turn(missed) was a deadbeat one, meaning he put nothing on the board, he moved nothing, and passed the dice to declare the next turn and its unfair to us, who are there to play the game, to have to think "oh i should do nothing this turn and put my troops over there so I don't get screwed over when he gets his troops from the turn he just missed" is stupid, and would be basically just like missing a turn while taking the turn, a waste of time and efforts.

Re: Missing Turns

PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:48 pm
by jkppkj
Missed turns suck, but they happen.

FYI the suggestion of KOing a player for 3 total missed turns, rather than consecutive missed turns, is on the list of rejected suggestions.

Also how would you take into account this rule for a game that has gone 100+ rounds and spanned 4 months which for some of us means a couple of 3 day trips to conferences where you had no choice but to miss a turn or two.

I think this suggestion went by the wayside b/c there are plenty of casual players on the site.

Re: Missing Turns

PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 6:00 am
by HardAttack
jkppkj wrote:Missed turns suck, but they happen.

FYI the suggestion of KOing a player for 3 total missed turns, rather than consecutive missed turns, is on the list of rejected suggestions.

Also how would you take into account this rule for a game that has gone 100+ rounds and spanned 4 months which for some of us means a couple of 3 day trips to conferences where you had no choice but to miss a turn or two.

I think this suggestion went by the wayside b/c there are plenty of casual players on the site.


this suggestion is made to point casual games already. :!:
how many 3 months lasting games did you hear or you know ?
if you make ur steps on expections, then you cann not put any rule for anything. say me a rule or suggest one, i can immediately create a scenario to break it.

Re: Missing Turns

PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:51 pm
by mccallan25
isavem1 wrote:I agree with your post!!

I would also like to see someone get kicked out for missing their first turn. If you can't make your first turn you are either a deadbeat or trying to take an advantage by missing your turn.

Thanks for the post!


Great idea. Right now in the last 30-40 games (1-2 months) I have at least 1-2 "Canadians" join the website, join one game, (mine) and then never log back in. This is crazy. Since they will not let us paying members decide if we want to play non-paying members we have no way of blocking this from happening. This suggestion will at least help.

It's too bad Lack wanted a million for this site when I asked. 50% less and this site would be mine and no need for this discussion.

Re: Missing Turns

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 2:40 am
by jkppkj
HardAttack wrote:
jkppkj wrote:Missed turns suck, but they happen.

FYI the suggestion of KOing a player for 3 total missed turns, rather than consecutive missed turns, is on the list of rejected suggestions.

Also how would you take into account this rule for a game that has gone 100+ rounds and spanned 4 months which for some of us means a couple of 3 day trips to conferences where you had no choice but to miss a turn or two.

I think this suggestion went by the wayside b/c there are plenty of casual players on the site.


this suggestion is made to point casual games already. :!:
how many 3 months lasting games did you hear or you know ?
if you make ur steps on expections, then you cann not put any rule for anything. say me a rule or suggest one, i can immediately create a scenario to break it.


I've played plenty of 3+ month games, at least 20 or so, it all depends on the game settings, no cards-no fog will make a game last a long time if there are no suiciders/clueless players who leave the board unbalanced for one player. I think there is plenty of other reasons why the idea has and will continue to be rejected

Re: Missing Turns

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 2:45 am
by Kotaro
isavem1 wrote:I still say if you miss your first turn you should be out! I don't care about life and all that crap. Play the game or don't.

Of the last 8 games or so that I have played 6 of them had a first turn deadbeat and 5 of those never showed.

Adam


That's the stupidest argument I've ever heard. "People aren't allowed to have lives, and if their internet goes down due to a storm, it's their own damn fault!" Yeah, way to make your point look terrible.

mccallan25 wrote:
Great idea. Right now in the last 30-40 games (1-2 months) I have at least 1-2 "Canadians" join the website, join one game, (mine) and then never log back in. This is crazy. Since they will not let us paying members decide if we want to play non-paying members we have no way of blocking this from happening. This suggestion will at least help.

It's too bad Lack wanted a million for this site when I asked. 50% less and this site would be mine and no need for this discussion.


Yeah, and this site would be abandoned very, very quickly.

And no one's forcing you to play public games. Make some private ones. Unless, of course, you have no friends, in which case, go challenge others to games.

Re: Missing Turns

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 8:10 am
by Joodoo
Woodruff wrote:
isavem1 wrote:I agree with your post!!
I would also like to see someone get kicked out for missing their first turn. If you can't make your first turn you are either a deadbeat or trying to take an advantage by missing your turn.
Thanks for the post!


I find myself just as frustrated as you by people who miss turns. However, the fact of the matter is that it IS NOT AN ADVANTAGE to miss a turn. AT BEST, they still have all of their territories intact and they get to place the two sets of armies they would have gotten at once (instead of spread over the two turns), and they missed one opportunity to attack.

Myself, I don't like that they get ALL their armies back, but the best alteration to this that I've heard is that their "missed armies" be spread over their territories randomly (after they play their next turn, as it is now) rather than their getting to place them personally. That way they are not overly hamstrung by having missed, but it also takes some away from the PERCEIVED advantage that they appear to gain. There's a thread regarding this somewhere (I don't see the link in my quick search).


I believe there are many threads about missing turns being (actually) a disadvantage for the player, so if you're really concerned about winning, you should be happy that your opponents are missing their turns :D

Re: Missing Turns

PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:49 pm
by lmac
i think in team games if you have a dead beat partner and you lose the game they should take the hit when it come to points.... if you loose a teammate it makes it incredibly difficult to win....