Rating system

[alex951]

Delete the rating system


This will improve the following aspects of the site:

• the rating system is being abuse by many parties i suggest we get rid of any type of rating system. if a player has a problem with someone else they can just put them on their foe list.
• clean up C&A

[AAFitz]

Rating system is awesome. It helps identify the kind of player you might be playing. Its not perfect by any stretch, but in any case, the rating system is not responsible for people making C&A reports about them, people are.

To clean up C&A, a simple announcement needs to be made that only the most extreme cases of ratings abuse will be looked at. Its CC's openness and willingness to investigate all claims that is ironically the only reason for clutter. We are lucky to have a staff that donates its time so willingly. Its just too bad so many abuse the reporting of these ridiculous claims.

[alex951]

personally I'm just tired about all the ridiculous accusation in the C&A and I'm not talking about thorn. If we get rid of the rating system all this will cool down.

i do like the rating system but not all the dumb report in C&A about abusing the rating system

[THORNHEART]

my name is coming up alot....

[Woodruff]

:(


my name is coming up alot....

But at least in this case it was "I'm NOT talking about Thorn". <smile>

[Jatekos]

To clean up C&A, a simple announcement needs to be made that only the most extreme cases of ratings abuse will be looked at.

I know that there will be many people disagreeing, but there is a simple solution (if we keep the current system): delete all ratings that players left who rate extremely! Too bad and too good alike.

[jefjef]

To clean up C&A, a simple announcement needs to be made that only the most extreme cases of ratings abuse will be looked at.

I know that there will be many people disagreeing, but there is a simple solution (if we keep the current system): delete all ratings that players left who rate extremely! Too bad and too good alike.

That sugg has support and has been bantered around a while. Hopefully someday we can get it implemented. Maybe even have the offender do it to have the warning erased from his/her record.

As for the C & A abuse cases I recall almost all of the recent complaints were found valid and action taken. Multiple action against a couple peeps, 1 NOTED. Only one found spurious that I can think of. 1 major one still pending.

I for one will not search/look for that abuse. But if I see it and it is blatant and severe I will report it.

As for the rating system. I say keep it.

[THORNHEART]

"I for one will not search/look for that abuse. But if I see it and it is blatant and severe I will report it."


BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHA....we call this lieing where i come from jefjef...lol did you really say you dont look for things omg...hahahahaa

[jefjef]

"I for one will not search/look for that abuse. But if I see it and it is blatant and severe I will report it."


BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHA....we call this lieing where i come from jefjef...lol did you really say you dont look for things omg...hahahahaa

What kind of gibberish is lieing? Do you mean LYING?

Well anyway I know of 3 others right now that more than exceed the definition of SEVERE ratings abuse. They would be warned. I am not pursuing them nor am I going to file in re of them.

Now please try to put the hurt away and stay on topic.

[AAFitz]

To clean up C&A, a simple announcement needs to be made that only the most extreme cases of ratings abuse will be looked at.

I know that there will be many people disagreeing, but there is a simple solution (if we keep the current system): delete all ratings that players left who rate extremely! Too bad and too good alike.

That actually is done already. They are averaged. That is the point of averaging. The extremes are not counted. Unless one receives an inordinate amount of extremes...but in that case, its expected that they deserve them..and therefore deserve their rating. I do agree that the 5 scale isnt really needed, and that a pos, neg, average would get the trick done too, however...but the 5 scale does allow for you to give a slight suggestion to a player to improve...without being fully negative.

Above average, average, or below average would be the best rating system possible. It would give nearly the same exact ratings...but would be open to much less interpretation. Still some would abuse it, but they could be dealt with much easier.

The point of the ratings however is just to let people know what kind of player we are playing, which is what they do. The actual number of complaints about the ratings when compared to how many use and like them is so small as to not warrant any action whatsoever....Its just that some simply cannot help but complain about everything, and therefore the ratings seem as though they have many people that dont like them...but a poll of every player on CC would show that the absolute massive majority think they work fine, and that there is no problem with them. Typically the only ones who really have a problem with them have low ratings...and that propensity to complain is probably what got them those low ratings in the first place....

And thats why the ratings work, and why they are needed. Its really quite simple, and if you look at any given player, the rating fits perfectly every time. You can always know what to expect, and even a quick look through the games shows that.

What sometimes happens however, is some leave too many low ratings, which does ruin the system...but usually those who do, have low ratings themselves...so the ratings warn us of that potential..

On the extreme cases, a person is warned not to keep leaving 1's for nothing...but other than that...there is absolutely nothing wrong with the ratings...except that some people will never be happy no matter what.

[MeDeFe]

Fitz, currently everyone receives an inordinate amount of extremely good ratings. Whether people like it or not, the system is broken.

[AndyDufresne]

Fitz, currently everyone receives an inordinate amount of extremely good ratings. Whether people like it or not, the system is broken.

Almost any rating system is "Broken" --- either it takes up too much time from a moderation standpoint, because of disputes and disagreements, and thus takes time away from Lack and the Team which would be rather focused more on productive hours (making, creating, planning,) than on responsive hours (moderating the feedback/ratings/etc, but of course moderation still exists when it comes to forums and game abuse)...

or the rating system is "Broken" in the sense that to doesn't completely satisfy the community's desire/want of how a system should be.

=========

The issue is there aren't many good middle grounds---because the original feedback was too "broken on the team" service side, and if the rating system is "broken on the community satisfaction" side---what is the middle ground that provides for both desires?

Hm. I think we've been trying to find that ever since we first launched any sort of "rating" system years ago.


--Andy

[Bruceswar]

Fitz, currently everyone receives an inordinate amount of extremely good ratings. Whether people like it or not, the system is broken.

Almost any rating system is "Broken" --- either it takes up too much time from a moderation standpoint, because of disputes and disagreements, and thus takes time away from Lack and the Team which would be rather focused more on productive hours (making, creating, planning,) than on responsive hours (moderating the feedback/ratings/etc, but of course moderation still exists when it comes to forums and game abuse)...

or the rating system is "Broken" in the sense that to doesn't completely satisfy the community's desire/want of how a system should be.

=========

The issue is there aren't many good middle grounds---because the original feedback was too "broken on the team" service side, and if the rating system is "broken on the community satisfaction" side---what is the middle ground that provides for both desires?

Hm. I think we've been trying to find that ever since we first launched any sort of "rating" system years ago.


--Andy

I think most would be willing to have the original feedback system back and have it self moderated? That or find as many as needed volunteers just to deal with feedback issues. I am sure you would have a line a mile long if this could be brought back.

[AndyDufresne]

I'm not sure we would have a line of volunteers for feedback moderation---we don't seem to have them for other types of moderation! And that doesn't seem to fix the problem---since in addition to hours, the problem was judgement---since someone had to judge whether something was alright. If anything, consistency would be even more difficult...and we all know that consistency is a major concern for the Community.


--Andy

[Bruceswar]

I'm not sure we would have a line of volunteers for feedback moderation---we don't seem to have them for other types of moderation! And that doesn't seem to fix the problem---since in addition to hours, the problem was judgement---since someone had to judge whether something was alright. If anything, consistency would be even more difficult...and we all know that consistency is a major concern for the Community.


--Andy

Fair enough about judgement calls, but mods would be there and willing to work. As to not getting many, if there was a way mods could have anybody sit for them, I would be the first in line for a mod job of some sort. I am sure there would be many others. Anyhow that is for another discussion. I still think the feedback system, could be made to work. Just like C&A mods, Feedback Mods could work also. What they say is final, and that is that.

[AndyDufresne]

Judgement on Abuse Reports vs Judgement on Feedback/Ratings is different I'd say. And I think it really comes back down to consistency, and the difficulty arising.


--Andy

[Jatekos]

To clean up C&A, a simple announcement needs to be made that only the most extreme cases of ratings abuse will be looked at.

I know that there will be many people disagreeing, but there is a simple solution (if we keep the current system): delete all ratings that players left who rate extremely! Too bad and too good alike.

That actually is done already. They are averaged. That is the point of averaging. The extremes are not counted. Unless one receives an inordinate amount of extremes...but in that case, its expected that they deserve them..and therefore deserve their rating. I do agree that the 5 scale isnt really needed, and that a pos, neg, average would get the trick done too, however...but the 5 scale does allow for you to give a slight suggestion to a player to improve...without being fully negative.

Above average, average, or below average would be the best rating system possible. It would give nearly the same exact ratings...but would be open to much less interpretation. Still some would abuse it, but they could be dealt with much easier.

Well, that was not exactly my point here. I am not talking about the average of the ratings someone receives from others, but the average of the ratings someone gives to others.

People file reports in the C&A forum because of certain players giving only 1 stars to everyone. Isn't it just as bad if someone gives only 5 stars? Is everyone excellent from all aspects, all the time? I can imagine even the Conqueror playing badly sometimes, or behaving in a way that is far from excellent. We are all human beings.

I could not find the definition of ratings abuse, but I consider everyone extremely abusing the rating system if the average of the ratings they have given is above 4,5 or below 1,5, provided that they have rated enough (let's say 20-25) players. Even if someone only plays with Field Marshals or only with New Recruits.

It would be pretty easy to run a query on the ratings and delete those player's ratings that fall into the above criteria (or any other criteria that has been agreed on).

In my opinion, the 5-scale system is needed, and people should use it.

[THORNHEART]

To clean up C&A, a simple announcement needs to be made that only the most extreme cases of ratings abuse will be looked at.

I know that there will be many people disagreeing, but there is a simple solution (if we keep the current system): delete all ratings that players left who rate extremely! Too bad and too good alike.

That sugg has support and has been bantered around a while. Hopefully someday we can get it implemented. Maybe even have the offender do it to have the warning erased from his/her record.

As for the C & A abuse cases I recall almost all of the recent complaints were found valid and action taken. Multiple action against a couple peeps, 1 NOTED. Only one found spurious that I can think of. 1 major one still pending.

I for one will not search/look for that abuse. But if I see it and it is blatant and severe I will report it.

As for the rating system. I say keep it.

oh so basically you are just reporting me cause you dont like me? well lmfao...i dont care about this site my warning or you but your a retarded person and it cant be anymore obvious than right here that you just single out people u dislike i mean if their in vilolation of cc then its your duty to report all violators not protect some!! lmfao your pathetic

[AAFitz]

Fitz, currently everyone receives an inordinate amount of extremely good ratings. Whether people like it or not, the system is broken.

It is not broken. Most people on CC are great people and great players. People should recieve a high number of good ratings. thats the point of it. This is a fun community of players, and spreading positivity proves why its not broken. The fact that most everyone leaves great ratings, proves that the ratings for them are equally justified. Your statement is direct proof of the fact that it is not broken. Its just great that everyone leaves great ratings....Its the way it should be on a fun game with fun people. Its amazing that people miss this most important point.

People come here to play with other people. They want to have a positive experience with other people. The ratings prove this happens. Unfortunately, there are some that are more happy, creating as much of a negative experience with other people as they can....and the ratings help identify those people too. Again...another example of how great the ratings work.

Its very easy to find one rating for a player that might not be deserved...but find any player...except new players....that does not deserve their rating. One player that say has a 4.0 that doesnt deserve it...or a 5.0 that doesnt deserve it. You cant do it. EVERYONE, EVERYONE, EVERYONE HAS THE RATING THEY DESERVE. IT WORKS PERFECTLY.

It allows us to give everyone a permanent gg, which in the end is what most people are looking for. The other goal of the ratings is to tell us what kind of player we are going to play. They do that perfectly, for anyone thats played enough games. The ratings fit each player exactly how they deserve to be rated. Perhaps its misinterpreted by some...but they work. Its just that some people dont realize they work, so they complain about them. But complaining does not mean something is broken. People complain about everything, and always will.

I do agree there are too many options though. The ratings right now are good average or below average.... its just done over five stars.

Its essentially what everyone does right now, so an easy fix is to just go with what already works, and eliminate the two extra stars. Then, the ratings will give you all the options you need to rate someone, the rating average will almost undoubtedly be the exact same because of the few numbers of

People are making the rating system too complicated. Its a simple system. It allows people to rate players which is absolutely necessary, because otherwise people will lose control and not be accountable. But, that is relatively a small percentage of the population. Mostly, nearly every player is a polite person, just trying to have some fun, and doesnt take the game too seriously, and certainly doesnt go off on every player they play every time they beat them with some.."impossible dice" thats why so many are rated well...as they should be.

All we really have to do is ignore the fact that the ratings will never be perfect. People will always abuse them. Just as people will always cheat, always be abusive, and you can never stop it. You can only punish those who go too far.

KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID. The old feedback system was maybe perfect, except it needed moderation, which is simply and completely impossible. So, any improvement to the ratings would be just going to 3 stars. Using Above average, Below average, and average. They are all subjective, and no one can say that another is not entitled to anothers opinion about what average is. Only those who go overboard will need be regulated.

Even without that change, the way to fix the complaints in C&A is to simply not regulate them as much. ONLY deal with the absolute obvious cases of abuse. Quite frankly, the failing in this respect is that the C&A moderators are just being too helpful, and working too hard at catering to all reports. They honestly just need to draw a line in the sand, tell us to not report ratings abuse, because they are averaged anyways, and only the most extreme cases of negative abuse will be looked at. Leaving too many positives is not abuse...its spreading the love, and making CC a better place. Its the negatives that keep people in check, and the ones that let us know what kind of player we are going to play.... AND THAT IS THE POINT OF THE RATINGS. The point is not to get an absolutely perfect rating of what a player is...that is just a silly goal at the outset...however...if you look at someone rating...and then look through their games...you will see...that every rating fits every person perfectly +/- 1 rating point.

It is not broken. You will not find one person with a rating...except for new players who do get screwed....that they dont deserve. It achieves the main goal, it achieves its secondary goals...the only complaint, is that people complain that they dont like it....but again ....people complain about everything....

Putting any more time into the ratings is just an absolute waste of time of CC resources...I want to see more maps, more options, less cheaters, cheating and perhaps abuse... I and no one else really cares if the rating is 100% perfect... its an impossible and silly goal... its just a quick measure of what to expect, and allows us to adjust strategy, and possibly avoid some players. Its a great system, and anyone complaining about it is simply missing the forest for the trees....or is just someone who enjoys complaining about everything...which again...is irrelevant.

[AAFitz]

]If you dont want to read all that....and I dont blame you...just read this....

It could not be more clear, or obvious

Gentlemen & Ladies, i get it, down with the mods, but seriously you guys with this "lets see who we can report next for ratings abuse to see where the rules really stand" are hurting the true modding that could be going on around here. Every other post lately has been a ratings one, and I refuse to believe that you are really that wrapped around the axle on this matter. In the time it takes us to review over this stuff we could have easily investigated 2 or 3 cases of a suspected multiple account or secret diplomacy case. So you can continue to report matters like this or you can choose to not be "popular" and take the higher road and let us do the job of protecting all of you from the real cheaters out there.

By all means you come across a cut and dry abuse of ratings then report it. Cut and Dry being:

a user that is using the system for vindictive means
rating inaccurately for a vast majority of other users
utilizing tags that mostly are never appropriate


But if you get a rating that you feel is undeserved try to work it out with the other guy, leave a response about the feedback you received but don't come crying in here, or barking up some other users tree to prove a point or be trendy. Or do and let the real cheaters continue to manipulate the system.

Ratings are Ratings, their someone elses opinion on how you conducted yourself in a game, are they really that big of a deal that we should have more then 2 abuse cases in C&A at any one time? My answer which I would assume is the obvious one is No.



Jp is Cleared, this will remain locked to take proactive measures to not allow flaming and further bashing in here of the rules, the decision or the accused. Your welcome to open up an E-Ticket to get a 2nd review, but seeing as this was a collective effort between all 6 of us I doubt you will get an overturn.

I challenge you to heed the message I said above about the detriment that is going on by continuing down this quest of seeking out players to see how far this rating fad will stretch. Its allowing the more important cases involving multi's, secret diplomacy, and over the line abuse to go unpunished longer then they should.

King Sam

[Queen_Herpes]

Fitz, currently everyone receives an inordinate amount of extremely good ratings. Whether people like it or not, the system is broken.

It is not broken. Most people on CC are great people and great players. People should recieve a high number of good ratings. thats the point of it. This is a fun community of players, and spreading positivity proves why its not broken. The fact that most everyone leaves great ratings, proves that the ratings for them are equally justified. Your statement is direct proof of the fact that it is not broken. Its just great that everyone leaves great ratings....Its the way it should be on a fun game with fun people. Its amazing that people miss this most important point.

People come here to play with other people. They want to have a positive experience with other people. The ratings prove this happens. Unfortunately, there are some that are more happy, creating as much of a negative experience with other people as they can....and the ratings help identify those people too. Again...another example of how great the ratings work.

Its very easy to find one rating for a player that might not be deserved...but find any player...except new players....that does not deserve their rating. One player that say has a 4.0 that doesnt deserve it...or a 5.0 that doesnt deserve it. You cant do it. EVERYONE, EVERYONE, EVERYONE HAS THE RATING THEY DESERVE. IT WORKS PERFECTLY.

It allows us to give everyone a permanent gg, which in the end is what most people are looking for. The other goal of the ratings is to tell us what kind of player we are going to play. They do that perfectly, for anyone thats played enough games. The ratings fit each player exactly how they deserve to be rated. Perhaps its misinterpreted by some...but they work. Its just that some people dont realize they work, so they complain about them. But complaining does not mean something is broken. People complain about everything, and always will.

I do agree there are too many options though. The ratings right now are good average or below average.... its just done over five stars.

Its essentially what everyone does right now, so an easy fix is to just go with what already works, and eliminate the two extra stars. Then, the ratings will give you all the options you need to rate someone, the rating average will almost undoubtedly be the exact same because of the few numbers of

People are making the rating system too complicated. Its a simple system. It allows people to rate players which is absolutely necessary, because otherwise people will lose control and not be accountable. But, that is relatively a small percentage of the population. Mostly, nearly every player is a polite person, just trying to have some fun, and doesnt take the game too seriously, and certainly doesnt go off on every player they play every time they beat them with some.."impossible dice" thats why so many are rated well...as they should be.

All we really have to do is ignore the fact that the ratings will never be perfect. People will always abuse them. Just as people will always cheat, always be abusive, and you can never stop it. You can only punish those who go too far.

KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID. The old feedback system was maybe perfect, except it needed moderation, which is simply and completely impossible. So, any improvement to the ratings would be just going to 3 stars. Using Above average, Below average, and average. They are all subjective, and no one can say that another is not entitled to anothers opinion about what average is. Only those who go overboard will need be regulated.

Even without that change, the way to fix the complaints in C&A is to simply not regulate them as much. ONLY deal with the absolute obvious cases of abuse. Quite frankly, the failing in this respect is that the C&A moderators are just being too helpful, and working too hard at catering to all reports. They honestly just need to draw a line in the sand, tell us to not report ratings abuse, because they are averaged anyways, and only the most extreme cases of negative abuse will be looked at. Leaving too many positives is not abuse...its spreading the love, and making CC a better place. Its the negatives that keep people in check, and the ones that let us know what kind of player we are going to play.... AND THAT IS THE POINT OF THE RATINGS. The point is not to get an absolutely perfect rating of what a player is...that is just a silly goal at the outset...however...if you look at someone rating...and then look through their games...you will see...that every rating fits every person perfectly +/- 1 rating point.

It is not broken. You will not find one person with a rating...except for new players who do get screwed....that they dont deserve. It achieves the main goal, it achieves its secondary goals...the only complaint, is that people complain that they dont like it....but again ....people complain about everything....

Putting any more time into the ratings is just an absolute waste of time of CC resources...I want to see more maps, more options, less cheaters, cheating and perhaps abuse... I and no one else really cares if the rating is 100% perfect... its an impossible and silly goal... its just a quick measure of what to expect, and allows us to adjust strategy, and possibly avoid some players. Its a great system, and anyone complaining about it is simply missing the forest for the trees....or is just someone who enjoys complaining about everything...which again...is irrelevant.

So your argument is this:

Most players deserve good ratings, Most players give out good ratings, Most players receive good ratings,
Therefore the rating system works.

I don't see the logic in that.

[elfish_lad]

I'm in full agreement with AAFitz on this one. Totally.

Slide on over to Bungie.net if you want to see a complicated math-based ranking/rating system. Works for them. But I still hold to the opinion I had the first week I joined here at CC: our present rating system works just fine for what it is, namely, an opinion based gauge that isn't tied so much to skill and prowess as it is toward enjoyability. And it works great for that.

Here is a brief example from the Speed World of CC: a 4.7 - 4.9 player is going to show up for the VAST majority of their turns (even when they are losing), isn't generally going to encourage you to have sex with your auntie/mother/pet/sibling if things go sour with their dice or drop, isn't (most likely, although we all have moments) going to freak all over your arse if your 7 stack beats their 12 and turns the game.

Conversely, if I see a player offering a speed game who has a rating in the high 3's or very low 4's? I'm going to ask myself, no matter the points their rank may be offering, if I'm in the mood and the head space to take their various forms of shenanigans. Doesn't mean I won't join. Just means it is nice to get a head's up.

Not a perfect gauge for sure. But, as I mentioned to begin with, I fully agree with AAFitz, in my 2000 games I've run across maybe... hmm... 10 players that I would rather not play a game with again. And their ratings reflect my reasons why.

Not broken. No need to fix it.

E.

[jefjef]

I'm in full agreement with AAFitz on this one. Totally.

Slide on over to Bungie.net if you want to see a complicated math-based ranking/rating system. Works for them. But I still hold to the opinion I had the first week I joined here at CC: our present rating system works just fine for what it is, namely, an opinion based gauge that isn't tied so much to skill and prowess as it is toward enjoyability. And it works great for that.

Here is a brief example from the Speed World of CC: a 4.7 - 4.9 player is going to show up for the VAST majority of their turns (even when they are losing), isn't generally going to encourage you to have sex with your auntie/mother/pet/sibling if things go sour with their dice or drop, isn't (most likely, although we all have moments) going to freak all over your arse if your 7 stack beats their 12 and turns the game.

Conversely, if I see a player offering a speed game who has a rating in the high 3's or very low 4's? I'm going to ask myself, no matter the points their rank may be offering, if I'm in the mood and the head space to take their various forms of shenanigans. Doesn't mean I won't join. Just means it is nice to get a head's up.

Not a perfect gauge for sure. But, as I mentioned to begin with, I fully agree with AAFitz, in my 2000 games I've run across maybe... hmm... 10 players that I would rather not play a game with again. And their ratings reflect my reasons why.

Not broken. No need to fix it.

E.

The Elf has spoken. Discussion over.

Please lock this thread.

[HardAttack]

Delete the rating system


This will improve the following aspects of the site:

• the rating system is being abuse by many parties i suggest we get rid of any type of rating system. if a player has a problem with someone else they can just put them on their foe list.
• clean up C&A

Dont care to rate, and also dont care rates ppl rate you with, then rating system exclusivetively removed for you

[elfish_lad]

The Elf has spoken. Discussion over.

Please lock this thread.

Meh. Just stating my opinion and you know it funny man.