[Rules] Random / Even Army Deployment On Missed Turn

[jaydog]

yeh. sounds just rite only people may feel cheated in an adjacent for game. if ur armies get deployed miles away from front line they r basically wasted

well then they should take more care in missing turns. no?

[hawkeye]

What if their internet breaks for a week?

[LazarusLong]

People have lives! This is just as bad as all of the other ideas. If you have something that wont disadvantage anyone I might think about it. Any arguments to me?

I agree. People have lives. Some have suggested in the past to not give the armies for the skipped turns but I am suggesting giving them out when the turn is skipped instead of holding them for when they come back.

There have been times when I've felt compelled to break someones continent when they miss a turn so they don't get such a big double bonus when they come back. If the armies are deployed when they miss the turn they would still get those armies for the continent even if it was broken on the next turn plus seeing where the armies are placed others would not feel so compelled to attack that person.

I would be okay with the current method if when they return to play they could place the armies they have missed at the end of their turn. It's just that in a very balanced game the double or triple deployment at the beginning of a turn gives too much advantage to the person that missed.

I am beginning to realize that this has a much greater impact in a game without cards. I wonder if the people that are for or against this idea are divided the same way.

[LazarusLong]

yeh. sounds just rite only people may feel cheated in an adjacent for game. if ur armies get deployed miles away from front line they r basically wasted

well then they should take more care in missing turns. no?

Another idea that was posted was to deploy the missed armies randomly but all on one country. This might work better for chained and adjacent games. Most of the time this would be just one or two turns away from a front line. Easier than gathering up a scattered force of ones and twos.

[nunz]

yeh. sounds just rite only people may feel cheated in an adjacent for game. if ur armies get deployed miles away from front line they r basically wasted

well then they should take more care in missing turns. no?

Another idea that was posted was to deploy the missed armies randomly but all on one country. This might work better for chained and adjacent games. Most of the time this would be just one or two turns away from a front line. Easier than gathering up a scattered force of ones and twos.

There are other posts about having a game option ,not to allow/to allow the getting of armies not deployed in a missed turn. To put that option in, ie set up a game where missed turns mean you miss out on your armies, or not and also a skip turn button would solve 90% of the problems people have with skipped turns.

If you don't like getting extra armies for skipping turns, set up your own game with that option turned off or join games where they have that option off. If you allow that option and want to skip a turn then the button means others don't wait 24 hours for their next turn.

To me that seems the most democratic option as it allows people their options to vote with their feet by joining games that suit them and to also skip turns without holding others up. Neither option seems too hard to implement and should be possible using existing game code and it would stop all the wrangling on a couple of the forums by offering choice.

Just a thought....

If (SkipButton.IsPushed){
player.status = turnPlayed;
}

[LazarusLong]

yeh. sounds just rite only people may feel cheated in an adjacent for game. if ur armies get deployed miles away from front line they r basically wasted

well then they should take more care in missing turns. no?

Another idea that was posted was to deploy the missed armies randomly but all on one country. This might work better for chained and adjacent games. Most of the time this would be just one or two turns away from a front line. Easier than gathering up a scattered force of ones and twos.

There are other posts about having a game option ,not to allow/to allow the getting of armies not deployed in a missed turn. To put that option in, ie set up a game where missed turns mean you miss out on your armies, or not and also a skip turn button would solve 90% of the problems people have with skipped turns.

If you don't like getting extra armies for skipping turns, set up your own game with that option turned off or join games where they have that option off. If you allow that option and want to skip a turn then the button means others don't wait 24 hours for their next turn.

To me that seems the most democratic option as it allows people their options to vote with their feet by joining games that suit them and to also skip turns without holding others up. Neither option seems too hard to implement and should be possible using existing game code and it would stop all the wrangling on a couple of the forums by offering choice.

Just a thought....

If (SkipButton.IsPushed){
player.status = turnPlayed;
}

You make a good case but the administrators here seem to be leaning away from too many options especially on the game set up and I agree with that. It can get too cluttered.

The skip turn idea is good but people don't always know ahead of time when they might skip like when their connection is down.

My idea tries to incorporate what I think Lack's goal is of allowing people to have a life outside of the site by still giving them the armies for the missed turns but taking away the strategic advantage of skipping a turn.

As I said before there is not one fair solution but I think the disadvantage should fall to the person that misses either on purpose or otherwise.

[MOBAJOBG]

Let us try to improve on this stupendous idea. I'm sure this Risk community can come up with a balanced and practical idea.

How's about 1/3 of the missed turn(s) reinforcements (rounded up to the nearest significant digit) be randomly placed in the teritories under the missed turn player's control while the remaining reinforcements be at his/her sole discretion?

[barbie]

How about you all stop missing turns. lol There are so many people who play on here who do it on purpose just for the advantage. I love the idea of random placement, would stop all the nonsense, and if the people who miss turns all the time dont like it on adjacent and or chained they can play unlimited, would be their choice then.

[JupitersKing]

I like the idea, and I support it, but there's a catch...

The reinforcements would have to be "smart."

If I hold North America, 5 bonus armies; 3 for territories, I should get 8 armies deployed there on a 3:3:2 ratio between Greenland, Alaska, and Central America (this should be determined by the +/- ratio of the neighboring force). If I hold Australia I should receive 3 armies (2 bonus + 1 for territories) on Indonesia. After continental reinforcements are deployed to the borders the remainder can be randomly deployed to the remaining territories outside these continents. In this way the 'minimum possible' reinforcements are placed at the critical places for defense on the next turn (thus creating a slight penalty for missing).

In this way you're not punished for missing a turn by having an opponent mass against you and attack now that you are a reinforcement cycle behind, you are also not penalized for having not missed a turn when that cycle is made up.

[silvanthalas]

The reinforcements would have to be "smart."

Why should it be smart? Why should it be further advantageous to those who miss their turns, for whatever reason?

People who miss turns should feel thankful that they get any armies at all.

That, and I think it's a despicable strategy to intentionally miss turns just to be able to dump all your armies on one spot and 'surprise' everybody else. Placing armies randomly on remaining territories after a turn is missed will eliminate that strategy.

[Incandenza]

Given how many profanity-laced tirades have been provoked from me by people missing turns then massing armies, I can't help but get behind this plan.

It's been said before, but I'll say it again: having a life is good, and I think people should get armies from missed turns, but it needs to be in such a way that they gain no strategic advantage. Laz's plan would achieve such.

[LazarusLong]

I like the idea, and I support it, but there's a catch...

The reinforcements would have to be "smart."

If I hold North America, 5 bonus armies; 3 for territories, I should get 8 armies deployed there on a 3:3:2 ratio between Greenland, Alaska, and Central America (this should be determined by the +/- ratio of the neighboring force). If I hold Australia I should receive 3 armies (2 bonus + 1 for territories) on Indonesia. After continental reinforcements are deployed to the borders the remainder can be randomly deployed to the remaining territories outside these continents. In this way the 'minimum possible' reinforcements are placed at the critical places for defense on the next turn (thus creating a slight penalty for missing).

In this way you're not punished for missing a turn by having an opponent mass against you and attack now that you are a reinforcement cycle behind, you are also not penalized for having not missed a turn when that cycle is made up.

Not a bad idea but no matter how "smart" you make it someone will want it different. I can see maybe deploying them based on where you currently have the most armies. If you have three countries with 10 each and everything else has ones then split the deployment between those three.

I don't think we should make this too complicated or it will never even be considered for implementation. The armies are deployed randomly at the beginning of each game so deploying them randomly on a missed turn seems to me like a small change rather than some complicated formula or some kind or smart deployment.

[yeti_c]

I like the idea, and I support it, but there's a catch...

The reinforcements would have to be "smart."

If I hold North America, 5 bonus armies; 3 for territories, I should get 8 armies deployed there on a 3:3:2 ratio between Greenland, Alaska, and Central America (this should be determined by the +/- ratio of the neighboring force). If I hold Australia I should receive 3 armies (2 bonus + 1 for territories) on Indonesia. After continental reinforcements are deployed to the borders the remainder can be randomly deployed to the remaining territories outside these continents. In this way the 'minimum possible' reinforcements are placed at the critical places for defense on the next turn (thus creating a slight penalty for missing).

In this way you're not punished for missing a turn by having an opponent mass against you and attack now that you are a reinforcement cycle behind, you are also not penalized for having not missed a turn when that cycle is made up.

But what happens if you'd held South America and North America... Venezuela and Central America would get surplus armies to defend against themselves!?

I agree with Laz's idea in principle...

I would like to see it work slightly cleverly though... continent bonuses get placed in their own contients... and the rest random.

i.e. the 2 you get for South America should go into South America... then I suppose of course though my argument against borders still holds... you don't want your guys in SA if you've got Africa and NA!!

C.

[b-b5]

I totally agree with Laz but feel a random deployment of the armies would be too much of a disadvantage.

Would something like having to deploy the armies recieved for each turn in discrete locations work...ie if you miss a turn and get ur armies doubled you can place no more than half of them on any one territory.

This would prevent the advantage of being able to deploy double the armies on one territory. This gives those trying to defend their borders a chance to spread their armies as they would have if the 2 turns were taken. However it would also give the player who missed the turn the opportunity to use their armies more strategically but just not to attack in one place with.

[LazarusLong]

I totally agree with Laz but feel a random deployment of the armies would be too much of a disadvantage.

Would something like having to deploy the armies recieved for each turn in discrete locations work...ie if you miss a turn and get ur armies doubled you can place no more than half of them on any one territory.

This would prevent the advantage of being able to deploy double the armies on one territory. This gives those trying to defend their borders a chance to spread their armies as they would have if the 2 turns were taken. However it would also give the player who missed the turn the opportunity to use their armies more strategically but just not to attack in one place with.

There are too many places where you can attack one country from two or more adjoining countries. It might help in some cases but not others.

There is an advantage here for the people that miss there turn. They get all of their armies even if they lose a continent before their next turn. There have been many times where I've broken someone's continent when they missed because I didn't want them getting 5 or 8 doubled or even tripled when they came back. This way the armies get deployed and it helps stabalize both sides.

I think getting the armies when you miss a turn is a gift to begin with. You don't get a card. Why should you get your armies. It can help encourage new players to keep playing if they miss a turn. Great. Most new players miss their turns early in the game where a random deployment wouldn't hurt them at all. The only thing I'm trying to do here is to prevent using a missed turn as a tactical advantage. Barring any totally fair solution I think the disadvantage should go to the person that missed.

[JupitersKing]

But what happens if you'd held South America and North America... Venezuela and Central America would get surplus armies to defend against themselves!?

YEP...

[yeti_c]

I had a further thought to this dilemma...

Recently I was in a game where my teammate decided not to continue playing and missed 3 turns in a row to bail out...

After he bailed out I inherited his territories... however I didn't inherit his reinforcements...

Soon the other 2 players will kill me off (they were already going to win anyway hence the bail from my teammate)...

Had the "random reinforcement" happened I would've then inherited his reinforcements too...

The question is - is that a good thing?

a) Yes as it gives the person who's now a teammate down a bit more hope!
b) No as it's different to current behaviour.

C.

[Blind Date]

Laz's idea is a fricking baseball bat named COMMON SENSE!!! And he has smacked you across the head and you still dont get it.

It is amazing to read how many people thinks it unfair or puts the person missing a turn at a disadvantage...Like many say...Its a game - we have a life....If you miss your turn - the penalty is you lose your armies. And its ok...You have a life.

But why would the Mods and Admin want to punish the players that never miss a turn or put them at a disadvantage?

Real simple....You miss a turn, you lose the opportunity for those armies. Done! Simple! If you missed because of work, family, etc....Its ok..You will lose approx 20 points and we all will move on.

Why is this a hard concept to grasp?

[Marxwell]

I completely agree with Laz's idea... you people (just some of you, actually) say it shouldn't be unfair for the person who missed a turn... instead, it makes much more sense to say the game should be fair for the people who DON'T lose their turns.... more than 99% of turns taken are not lost, and if only one of those 2 situations have to be chosen as fair, it should obviously be fair for the people who didn't lose their turn...

And finally, Laz suggestion does not seem too bad even for the person who missed a turn! If for some reason I were forced to miss a turn, I would gladly prefer my armies to be randomly deployed... if I have a continent, for example... depending on the game it is already difficult holding one continent for 1 turn, let alone for 2 (or more) turns with everybody knowing I'd get double, or triple, if they let it happen, and with me not being able to defend it in my turn....

[max is gr8]

Laz's idea is a fricking baseball bat named COMMON SENSE!!! And he has smacked you across the head and you still dont get it.

It is amazing to read how many people thinks it unfair or puts the person missing a turn at a disadvantage...Like many say...Its a game - we have a life....If you miss your turn - the penalty is you lose your armies. And its ok...You have a life.

But why would the Mods and Admin want to punish the players that never miss a turn or put them at a disadvantage?

Real simple....You miss a turn, you lose the opportunity for those armies. Done! Simple! If you missed because of work, family, etc....Its ok..You will lose approx 20 points and we all will move on.

Why is this a hard concept to grasp?

Correct we all have a life the reason I chose conquerclub over some other risk websites is because it lets you be ill have family issues otherwise I would play another website.

The set-up for conquerclub is for the people who have lives even lack has said so It's aimes so people can be ill and not have a punishment

ALSO IT ALREADY HAS A DISADVANTAGE

If you had 14 territories when you missed your turn
Then the next day yuo only had 11 instead of getting 4 units then 3 you'ld only get 6 so therefore it is fair for those who complain.

[LazarusLong]

If you had 14 territories when you missed your turn
Then the next day yuo only had 11 instead of getting 4 units then 3 you'ld only get 6 so therefore it is fair for those who complain.

I'm saying you would get 7 instead of just 6. 4 when your turn is missed and three when you come back. Plus the four that are deployed randomly might offer some defense AND give your opponent less of an incentive to knock down a double bonus.

[Marxwell]

the argument "it already has a disadvantage" doesn't hold.... obviously, we all agree it's true, and that's not even the greatest disadvantage... becoming an easy and desired target PLUS not getting cards, well that's the great disadvantage.... Laz's suggestion makes it BETTER for the person who lost the turn, and IN ADDITION it doesn't harm the other players!

Of course missing one's turn is still worse than playing it for yourself, but isn't that supposed to be obvious?? I don't understand the statement: "it would be bad for the person who lost his turn", that's hardly an argument for me...

[oaktown]

brilliant solution - doesn't punish, but also doesn't reward. Has the added benefit of not punishing the partner of a deadbeat by depriving you of those three armies every turn.

Question though: if I hold Europe and miss a turn, then by the time I come back I've lost Europe, do I get armies for having held Europe on my missed turn? I think i don't... by automatically assigning the armies from the missed turn, you probably WOULD get the bonus armies.

Of course, if you can actually hold Europe you're probably pretty active in the game and unlikely to miss.

[LazarusLong]

brilliant solution - doesn't punish, but also doesn't reward. Has the added benefit of not punishing the partner of a deadbeat by depriving you of those three armies every turn.

Question though: if I hold Europe and miss a turn, then by the time I come back I've lost Europe, do I get armies for having held Europe on my missed turn? I think i don't... by automatically assigning the armies from the missed turn, you probably WOULD get the bonus armies.

Of course, if you can actually hold Europe you're probably pretty active in the game and unlikely to miss.

Currently you get double or triple the armies of whatever you get at the time you return and take your turn. In your example assuming you have less than 12 countries and lose Europe and miss just one turn you would get three times two. You would get no credit for holding Europe on the missed turn.

In my proposed suggestion you would get 8 deployed randomly on your missed turn. 5 for Europe and 3 for your countries. Then when you return to take your turn you would get just 3 if you had lost Europe. Based on games that I have played you would be less likely to lose Europe because you wouldn't be returning with 16 to deploy all at once.

[oaktown]

thanks, laz

I think the biggest benefit to your idea is that partners of deadbeats no longer lose the deadbeat's armies every turn.