Official Tournament Suggestion

[Woodruff]

Concise description:

• This suggestion is regarding an annual official tournament.

Specifics/Details:

• At some pre-determined date (January 1st seems obvious to me), have the top ten within every single possible characteristic combination of game-finder put into a tournament. Obviously, this would be a very large tournament.
• This tournament could well be designed in similar format to the way games were selected in the sci-fi/fantasy series "The Blue Adept" in which there was some significant strategy involved in selecting games and yet it was still somewhat random. It is designed heavily around "game theory". While no one could control that they would play within their specific specialty, they would be able to influence it being toward their specialty or away from their opponent's specialty. I can help explain this in detail if there is interest in this idea.
• There is one snag to the suggestion that I would really like input into. By it's design it works very well for 2-player games, but I have not yet worked out how it could be implemented to include ALL "numbers of opponents" while still following the format I've laid out, and that obviously is a significant weakness as there are some players who specialize in those sorts of games. I'm more than happy to use an alternate format if there is one (i.e. NOT "The Blue Adept" way, for those familiar with it), but it should still use strong "game theory" in its design. So any suggestions to make that happen?
• I would suggest that this not be a single-elimination tournament, but that would be up to the officials running it as it would be "their pain in the butt", as it were.
• I would suggest a special achievement medal for the winner, but that is obviously up to the administration.

How this will benefit the site and/or other comments:

• The idea for this came from the suggestion regarding a "conqueror's tournament". This idea would specifically bring in the best players in every format and give them a strategically sound ability to influence which individual games they play.
• I believe there would be a great deal of interest in this tournament, not just from those at the top of the respective charts, but also from the populace at large. It could turn out to be very prestigious.

[nebsmith]

For a set up you could try something like this

viewtopic.php?f=91&t=161799

Which allows any number of players and any game type.

If your idea is to try and guide players away from their specialties then you can adjust things so players get a better return by joining games outside their specialty.

[Woodruff]

For a set up you could try something like this

viewtopic.php?f=91&t=161799

Which allows any number of players and any game type.

If your idea is to try and guide players away from their specialties then you can adjust things so players get a better return by joining games outside their specialty.

That is an interesting idea you have there. I'm going to go look at it some more when I have time.

I'm not really trying to guide folks away from their specialties, so much...rather, I'm trying to make ALL GAME POSSIBILITIES AVAILABLE but with the specific game selection made via game theory. Perhaps I'll have to go into a long-depth explanation of the method I had in mind (from the book series I mentioned above) later on today when I have time.

(Read the books, they are great writing even if you hate Piers Anthony like I do.)

[Army of GOD]

isn't the Conquer Cup already this pretty much? Though it's more semi-annual

[nebsmith]

I've read them - the title didn't click until you mentioned his name.

I think I see what you mean now. You want to set up a grid or series of grids where opponents get to make a choice to decide what they will play. I can see the problem with anything but 1v1 games

You could set up 2, 3 or 6 player games with the grids below. I suppose you could do 4 player also if you drop one of the grids and have some fixed settings



You could randomize who picks what in the first round and then give the top or bottom players first choice from then on.

[Woodruff]

isn't the Conquer Cup already this pretty much? Though it's more semi-annual

Perhaps it is...I'm not at all familiar with Conquer Cup. Do they take the highest-ranked players from every "potential specialty group"?

[Woodruff]

I've read them - the title didn't click until you mentioned his name.
I think I see what you mean now. You want to set up a grid or series of grids where opponents get to make a choice to decide what they will play. I can see the problem with anything but 1v1 games

Yes, exactly.

You could set up 2, 3 or 6 player games with the grids above. I suppose you could do 4 player also if you drop one of the grids and have some fixed settings
You could randomize who picks what in the first round and then give the top or bottom players first choice from then on.

True, I suppose...I just really like the idea of simultaneous picks in order to be true to game theory (which I love). But the non-2-player-games really make that a serious kink in the plan.

I wonder if...perhaps some way of integrating the individual (separate) 1-vs-1 contests that ended up selecting for a different number of players (say 8-player) could be then combined.

For instance, for different 1-vs-1 "selections" that come out with 8-player could be combined into one 8-player game. Of course, now that depends on "the right numbers of selections coming out for each of the various non-2-player-games"...

[nebsmith]

True, I suppose...I just really like the idea of simultaneous picks in order to be true to game theory (which I love). But the non-2-player-games really make that a serious kink in the plan.

it works if you give the players with more or less points the choice of which row or column to select from, but have them PM that choice from the row or column so no-one has any info about what other players are doing. Maybe let players know who is picking from where.

For 8 player games you would either need a 4th grid - and I don't see where to get that from - or have 2 players left out of the selection process.

Maybe you could work a 4th grid from round limits against various scoring systems or round limits v singles,dubs,quads.
If round limits v singles,dubs,quads you would have to drop the assassin option from the 3rd grid or allow a the selection of a team game to override it. Assassin as an option would probably make scoring difficult anyway.

These 4 would allow 8 picks - each player selecting with knowledge only of who is picking from where


With 2 or 4 player games you could allow knowledge of the result of the previous 1 or 2 grids.

[Army of GOD]

isn't the Conquer Cup already this pretty much? Though it's more semi-annual

Perhaps it is...I'm not at all familiar with Conquer Cup. Do they take the highest-ranked players from every "potential specialty group"?

oh, no. But I would say the problem there is the highest ranked players probably wouldn't want to participate in a 1 on 1.

I haven't joined it, but I think the conquer cup is essentially a 5 dollar buy-in double-elimination tournament. The winner gets an iPad or something at the end. I just looked and they have up to 640 entries, which is a damn large tourny.

[Woodruff]

Perhaps it is...I'm not at all familiar with Conquer Cup. Do they take the highest-ranked players from every "potential specialty group"?

oh, no. But I would say the problem there is the highest ranked players probably wouldn't want to participate in a 1 on 1.

That's a good point...I guess this tournament would almost HAVE to have a voluntary aspect to it, as the real serious farmers wouldn't be interested in it. But the guys like ljex and such I think would find it to be an incredible challenge. Maybe if one of the top guys "passes" on it, then #6 would come in to play or something like that.

[Woodruff]

True, I suppose...I just really like the idea of simultaneous picks in order to be true to game theory (which I love). But the non-2-player-games really make that a serious kink in the plan.

it works if you give the players with more or less points the choice of which row or column to select from, but have them PM that choice from the row or column so no-one has any info about what other players are doing. Maybe let players know who is picking from where.

Ok, I think I see what you're getting at there.

For 8 player games you would either need a 4th grid - and I don't see where to get that from - or have 2 players left out of the selection process.

Yeah, that's kind of where I'm stuck now too.

Maybe you could work a 4th grid from round limits against various scoring systems or round limits v singles,dubs,quads.
If round limits v singles,dubs,quads you would have to drop the assassin option from the 3rd grid or allow a the selection of a team game to override it. Assassin as an option would probably make scoring difficult anyway.

I hadn't considered round limits, as I didn't really think of it as a "specialization aspect", but it might help in that regard. I do think there are enough folks who really focus on assassin games to leave it in though. But I do like the way you're seeing it...I think you're exactly in line with what I'm trying to do.

[nebsmith]

How about this for a 4th grid.



Option A
1st = 10
2nd = 8
3rd = 7
4th = 6
5th = 5
6th = 4
7th = 3
8th = 1

Option B
1st = 20
2nd = 10
3rd = 5
4th = 4
5th = 3
6th = 2
7th = 0
8th = 0

Option C
1st = 8
2nd = 7
3rd = 5
4th = 4
5th = 3
6th = 2
7th = 1
8th = 0
plus 2 points per kill

Option D
1st = 2
plus 6 points per kill

You can also use this to pick scoring systems for any size of game.