Conqueror's Cup 2010. Winners Knights of the round table !!

[Bruceswar]

I just re-read this, thinking I missed something. I'm not sure I understand your thought process here ahunda:

Games being sent on 17th might be found in an Inbox first on the 18th.
agreed
Then 2 days for sorting teams. That can be stress already, if the person in charge has some other business at the same day.
agreed, but those two days give you the 18th and 19th
PMs sent to the clan on 20th. Some of them being found in Inboxes on the 21st.
If they find them on the 21st-two days later-they still join on time
Just saying: It is a rather tight time span. I have seen plenty of clans, who had problems joining their small league sets in such a time.
That's sad. They need more commitment or better leadership
This should be a fun event. Not stress for the organisers.
Agreed...but let's be reasonable. We don't need to drag this out. It's only sending 10 games at a time, then having your guys join 10 games. That's not a lot of slots to fill.

You are not serious are you? I guess your clan just puts in whoever, but I know most clans debate out who goes where, and that can take a few days. Ask TSM about the THOTA war.

[Bruceswar]

I dunno how much debate you have for clan games, but those can take a while. Notice the CLA has the game orders up to post at your leisure.

Bingo!

[Incandenza]

You are not serious are you? I guess your clan just puts in whoever, but I know most clans debate out who goes where, and that can take a few days. Ask TSM about the THOTA war.

Hell, ask us. There've been a few games that took a few days to fill on our end...

[Kinnison]

Look, Chuuuuck set it up this way. This is NOT the CLA. Consider getting yourself organized enough to sort things out part of the challenge involved here.

This may not go to the clan with the best players... simply the best ORGANIZED clan.

[Incandenza]

I think that one way this can be expedited would be for clans to exchange game info before the games themselves are created.

[Chuuuuck]

I will extend the time allowed to join games to 5 days. The intention of these rules is to keep the tournament moving along. I have already said I would try to give every clan 2 weeks after all their games finish in a clan war before needing to send games for the next one. I don't want to extend the time allowed to join games any more because I don't to get to where there is >1 month between rounds because that would drag the tournament to longer than a year total.

I think most clans here have respect for one another and follow a standard "gentlemens rule." If you would like more time than 5 days then simply ask your opponent to agree to send games earlier than the date that I have set forth. As long as everything happens within the time frame I lay out and by the rules, I don't care if people start early or send things early or have other agreements (they just can't be later).

I understand and can empathize with you all who want more time but I do believe for everyone that wants more time there are others who want the tournament to keep moving along also. I was hoping to not really change any rules but I will add 1 day due to the time frame you laid out on how you think it will go.

[Chuuuuck]

I think that one way this can be expedited would be for clans to exchange game info before the games themselves are created.

Exactly, well said Incandenza

[AgentSmith88]

I think that one way this can be expedited would be for clans to exchange game info before the games themselves are created.

Or its a good way for a clan who can adapt to get a leg up on the competition. Either way, the rules are meant to be followed. This is a tournament. The rules are set up for a reason, not for people to bitch about to change so that it benefits them. This holds especially true once the tourney has started. Changing rules that have already been specified because 1 or 2 people have a problem is stupid. We had a vote in our clan and this was the reason I voted against joining. I didn't mind how the tourney was set up, but all the constant nagging gets on my nerves.

[ahunda]

I didn´t mean to "nag" or "bitch", and I didn´t make a selfish suggestion, that would "benefit" my own clan more than others.

I only noticed that time line today. And I have been in charge of running the CLA league for our clan. So I know, how much work is involved there & how much stress it can become on occasion.

There are clans here, who are playing other challenges alongside this tournament. There are clans, who will play the league play-offs alongside the first rounds of the tournament. And the final rounds of the tournament will probably overlap with the new league season at the end of the year.

So all I am saying (based on actual experience with organising stuff like that myself): This could potentially become very stressful for the clan contacts (and not least for Chuck himself, who has to check that stuff, send reminders, deal out punishments & in a worst case scenario deal with drop outs & completely skewed results).

If you want to take a hard stance about rules being rules & that is, what we all signed up for: Fine. We´ll just have to manage then.

My comment was meant as a warning, as I saw potential for problems there. And my interest was to have this be a fun event, not stress & trouble for those involved.

[jpcloet]

It is not an easy task to manage multiple things.

[khazalid]

*waits for woman to come along with snide cliche about multi-tasking*

[pmchugh]

*waits for woman to come along with snide cliche about multi-tasking*

You've got a while to wait, they will be making lunch atm.

[stahrgazer]

How about a "happy medium"...

Chuuuck initially suggested 2 weeks to create games, and 4 days to join games; that's 18 days. Chuuck then extended it to 5 days to join games, or 19 total days. How about eleven days to make games and 8 days to join them? The time involved to decide on home games is approximately equal to the time involved to decide on away players; but extra time is required to create games and set up a forum thread for them (so extra days to the home/maker). Surely a week is enough time to figure out who's on first and what's on second; and then you'd have an extra day to join.

While this suggestion would change what Chuuuck initially planned, the suggestion does not change the total time he's established, so would have no effect on tournament timing. It makes figuring out the calender slightly more difficult, but probably not too terribly difficult.

[pmchugh]

How about a "happy medium"...

Chuuuck initially suggested 2 weeks to create games, and 4 days to join games; that's 18 days. Chuuck then extended it to 5 days to join games, or 19 total days. How about eleven days to make games and 8 days to join them? The time involved to decide on home games is approximately equal to the time involved to decide on away players; but extra time is required to create games and set up a forum thread for them (so extra days to the home/maker). Surely a week is enough time to figure out who's on first and what's on second; and then you'd have an extra day to join.

While this suggestion would change what Chuuuck initially planned, the suggestion does not change the total time he's established, so would have no effect on tournament timing. It makes figuring out the calender slightly more difficult, but probably not too terribly difficult.

ur aw is a happy medium

[AgentSmith88]

I didn´t mean to "nag" or "bitch", and I didn´t make a selfish suggestion, that would "benefit" my own clan more than others.

I only noticed that time line today. And I have been in charge of running the CLA league for our clan. So I know, how much work is involved there & how much stress it can become on occasion.

There are clans here, who are playing other challenges alongside this tournament. There are clans, who will play the league play-offs alongside the first rounds of the tournament. And the final rounds of the tournament will probably overlap with the new league season at the end of the year.

So all I am saying (based on actual experience with organising stuff like that myself): This could potentially become very stressful for the clan contacts (and not least for Chuck himself, who has to check that stuff, send reminders, deal out punishments & in a worst case scenario deal with drop outs & completely skewed results).

If you want to take a hard stance about rules being rules & that is, what we all signed up for: Fine. We´ll just have to manage then.

My comment was meant as a warning, as I saw potential for problems there. And my interest was to have this be a fun event, not stress & trouble for those involved.

I wasn't calling you out specifically. I realize the quote I used specifically referred to your problem, but my point was that it will be impossible to please everyone about timing, amount of games, etc. The rules seem to always be changing and that just seems counter-intuitive to me being a tournament and all.

I guess I just have a bad taste in my mouth from all the bickering that goes on in the CLA forum and about the clan ladder. My reference to bitching was more in line with those things. My man jp works extremely hard not just doing his mod duties, but also running our clan of over 40 members.

[Chariot of Fire]

I'm grateful to ahunda for bringing this up and my thanks to Chuck for amending the 'join within' time frame to five days. Any less than that was a bit of a squeeze potentially, though I guess we would have coped. We have it a bit tougher in TOFU as most of the admin is handled by me (on Hong Kong time) whilst the remaining members are in Europe or N.America and my time zone really is out of kilter, so a day is always lost in correspondence. The 'create games' time frame is a lot less relevant. Heck, we could all be sorting out our home games now, truth be told.

[stahrgazer]

Another clarification requested:

Is this Cup tourney requiring - like many tourneys - that any foes be unfoed?

To Agent Smith: I didn't see the timeline, so I asked the question about when games were to start and be joined. Apparently I'm not the only one who didn't see it. Someone pointing out that a couple days to join is a little sparse; especially over a drinking holiday; isn't "bickering" - it's prewarning of potential problems for any "away" clan. Most good organizers appreciate people bringing up potential concerns that can seriously affect the outcomes. I mean, I highly doubt Chuuuck wants this tourney won because ppl forfeited because they drank too much green beer that day and forgot to join their games

[Lubawski]

You are not serious are you? I guess your clan just puts in whoever, but I know most clans debate out who goes where, and that can take a few days. Ask TSM about the THOTA war.

If you need leadership and/or organizational advice, just ask. We are extremely organized, go over things deliberately (we have four of us who collaborate), and it takes about 1 day, sometimes 2 days if people are especially busy. Perhaps our efficiency is to blame for the timeline that was set up initially. We're just too good.

[the.killing.44]

You are not serious are you? I guess your clan just puts in whoever, but I know most clans debate out who goes where, and that can take a few days. Ask TSM about the THOTA war.

If you need leadership and/or organizational advice, just ask. We are extremely organized, go over things deliberately (we have four of us who collaborate), and it takes about 1 day, sometimes 2 days if people are especially busy. Perhaps our efficiency is to blame for the timeline that was set up initially. We're just too good.

You do have a point there:

EMPIRE - 15 members

LoW - 20 members
KORT - 23 members
TSM - 25 members
IA - 26 members
THOTA - 26 members

[Blitzaholic]

chuuuuck can you PM me and Inc both when it is our turn to join and start games please? If so, thx.

[Chuuuuck]

Another clarification requested:

Is this Cup tourney requiring - like many tourneys - that any foes be unfoed?

To Agent Smith: I didn't see the timeline, so I asked the question about when games were to start and be joined. Apparently I'm not the only one who didn't see it. Someone pointing out that a couple days to join is a little sparse; especially over a drinking holiday; isn't "bickering" - it's prewarning of potential problems for any "away" clan. Most good organizers appreciate people bringing up potential concerns that can seriously affect the outcomes. I mean, I highly doubt Chuuuck wants this tourney won because ppl forfeited because they drank too much green beer that day and forgot to join their games

Yes, if anyone has an opponent foed they must unfoe that player. If a clan is late in joining a game because Player A has Player B on his foe list then Player As will be punished as if they were late joining the clan because they are the ones delaying the game.

[stahrgazer]

Thanks for clarifying, Chuuuck.

[Bruceswar]

You are not serious are you? I guess your clan just puts in whoever, but I know most clans debate out who goes where, and that can take a few days. Ask TSM about the THOTA war.

If you need leadership and/or organizational advice, just ask. We are extremely organized, go over things deliberately (we have four of us who collaborate), and it takes about 1 day, sometimes 2 days if people are especially busy. Perhaps our efficiency is to blame for the timeline that was set up initially. We're just too good.

I think I am able to handle things just fine. Things were fine with I was with IA, and things are fine in KORT. Ask of the of top clans, TSM, TOFU, ID, IA, THOTA, KORT.... All said pretty much the same thing. It takes time to debate out who is going where. Unless you run a dictatorship, then it will take time. At your your just too good comment, the league is showing that. The time it takes to join a game does not make you any better.

[Chuuuuck]

You are not serious are you? I guess your clan just puts in whoever, but I know most clans debate out who goes where, and that can take a few days. Ask TSM about the THOTA war.

If you need leadership and/or organizational advice, just ask. We are extremely organized, go over things deliberately (we have four of us who collaborate), and it takes about 1 day, sometimes 2 days if people are especially busy. Perhaps our efficiency is to blame for the timeline that was set up initially. We're just too good.

I think I am able to handle things just fine. Things were fine with I was with IA, and things are fine in KORT. Ask of the of top clans, TSM, TOFU, ID, IA, THOTA, KORT.... All said pretty much the same thing. It takes time to debate out who is going where. Unless you run a dictatorship, then it will take time. At your your just too good comment, the league is showing that. The time it takes to join a game does not make you any better.

Bruce, I know you and Mike get into it quiet a bit bashing each other for whatever reason I don't know. Say whatever you want about him, but there are many of us that help lead Empire and I am really sick of you publicly bashing us in just about every post you write that has anything to do with us. You put all of the weight in the world in the CLA just because you all are doing well and leading that even though probably 80+% of everyone else that posts anything publically says they don't think CLA carries near the weight clan wars do AND when every clan voted you will notice they clearly put Empire above KORT.

Now I am not one to bash KorT because I like just about everyone of your members that I have ever played with. I also commend you and say congratulations on doing so well in the CLA, I will admit that isn't easy to do and you all have done very well.

But if you want to get into bashing each other then why don't you say it how every leaderboard that has ever been listed shows it. The top clans THOTA, TSM, TOFU, EMPIRE, and IA do it one way. Now how do the clans ranked from 6-10 do it? You can assume dictatorship all you want but there are many of us that talk over every decision we make, nearly our whole clan due to our small size.

Instead of just talking bad about each other and each of us saying we are better than the other (even though nearly everyone who votes agrees we are better) how about we settle this with an actual clan war? Lets keep the trash talking down until the 2nd round of the cup when we can actually beat you assuming both clans make it there. And I have not talked to my clan about this but I am sure they will all agree, if for any reason one of us doesn't make it there I would love for you all to be our next challenge so we can finally show you how one of the top clans plays a war.

To everyone else reading this, I apologize. I don't get mad and say anything negative about others on this site very often and I don't really want to now, but Bruce finds it necessary to bash us in every post he makes and I get sick of it as does the rest of my clan and I think it is about time I do say something.

[Chuuuuck]

Here is the update, with the AOD win over BSS added in and the LOW-SF challenge removed as it ages out this week.



Jp's newest update on 2-20-2010

1. Thota
2. Tsm
3. IA
4. Tofu
5. Empire
6. Low
7. O+H
8. Aod
9. ID
10. Bss
11. Legion
12. BpB
13. Gen 1
14. DDVL
15. DD
16. Kort


JP currently has them # 9

The latest ladder. Please feel free to again tell us at Empire how the "top clans" do it. We sure would like some help from all the way down there in the 16 spot.