Conquer Club

Accused:

• KLOBBER

The accused are suspected of:

• Being Multis
• Having a secret alliance

Game number(s):

• Game 2009105
• Game 2009104
• Game 2009103
• And many more that he has played.

Comments:
KLOBBER is an ok player. I beat him in two of the games that I played with him. He didn't really say anything and he seemed to play fair at the time. I didn't suspect anything until game #2009103 finished and I noticed that 6 of the 8 players were deadbeats, which raised some flags for me. This morning I looked at some of his other games and noticed that in nearly all of his games, all the newbie players deadbeat. This wouldn't always give him an advantage, unless he knows that it is going to happen. I find it very unlikely that this many players would deadbeat in games that he always creates. The deadbeat players sometimes come from different countries acording to their profiles and maybe even come from different IPs.

This is a serious accusation and one that I hesitate to make, but I suspect that KLOBBER is a "hacker/cracker" that is able to register accounts from machines throughout the world. Who knows, maybe he uses one of the botnets to do it. I myself have been a system administrator for 11 years and see stuff like this all the time, so its not like its unheard of. Paying player or not, he deserves to have his account revoked if you can prove that the above is true. If you need any help with data mining to find any proof, I have a lot of experience with that and would be willing to help. You probably won't be able to stop him from joining again. But maybe that would discourage him.

I saw that there is another post filing a complaint about him, but I just wanted to file another one to encourage more action.

The "search" function is your friend.

he is well within his rights to start a new thread as this is a new allegation arising from a different game.

I hate to be doing this, but please just delete the post, or edit it. KLOBBER may be a jerk and a bunch of other things, but he is not a cheater. You said you saw one thread about him, clearly you did not look hard enough.
Posted by KLOBBER to prove himself
Newest thread started by someone
Started by Oggiss, look up Oggiss too if you want to see more examples of this
Again, started by KLOBBER to prove himself
Another thread about him
These threads are all about KLOBBER cheating by starting hundreds of new accounts and playing against them on Circus Maximus with Fog of War. Just give it a rest, it happens. Also, other people have been cited for the same reasons, all have been cleared. Why dont you try starting 50 games, all with the same settings and see what happens.

lancehoch wrote:I hate to be doing this, but please just delete the post, or edit it. KLOBBER may be a jerk and a bunch of other things, but he is not a cheater. You said you saw one thread about him, clearly you did not look hard enough.
Posted by KLOBBER to prove himself
Newest thread started by someone
Started by Oggiss, look up Oggiss too if you want to see more examples of this
Again, started by KLOBBER to prove himself
Another thread about him
These threads are all about KLOBBER cheating by starting hundreds of new accounts and playing against them on Circus Maximus with Fog of War. Just give it a rest, it happens. Also, other people have been cited for the same reasons, all have been cleared. Why dont you try starting 50 games, all with the same settings and see what happens.

HEY! WAKE UP! Are hundreds of games where this same pattern with KLOBBER happens not evidence enough? I've played a few games where there were deadbeats, but not like this. I suppose a lot of people here don't have enough experience with the internet to know what is possible, but its definitely possible to hack other computers or just use other computers from all around the world to register accounts by proxying your connection through them, or using a program to do it automatically. The admins seem to think that all the other accounts coming from other IPs automatically clears him from blame. But this is a naive approach. They need to use the obvious pattern as evidence against him.

One person like KLOBBER creating so many accounts that just join games to deadbeat could alone contribute significantly to the problem of deadbeating. Him creating 6 accounts at any one time that join 3 games each, means that 16 other games have deadbeats in them besides the one he is playing.

Well I don't know if Klobber is guilty or not. I do know that someone did create all those accounts. They simply had to use an IP address changer. Just look at all the join up dates and times of all the noobs. Someone clearly sat down and just created dozens of accounts looks like for two to three days straight. Plus if you do the math on it the likely hood of that number of noobs joining within a few minute span and then playing in the same game is less than a 4% chance. Like I said Klobber may be innocent, but those accounts were surely made by one person.

I find it funny these new accounts would join a game in such a weird map. Most new players I would think would join the Classic Map games as that is what they would be familiar with from playing Risk.

It has been my experience that "most" newbies start on Classic and then branch out to see what else is out there.
Certainly doesn;t mean Klobber or anyone else is cheating though.

Just a thought.

scarface99x wrote:Well I don't know if Klobber is guilty or not. I do know that someone did create all those accounts. They simply had to use an IP address changer. Just look at all the join up dates and times of all the noobs. Someone clearly sat down and just created dozens of accounts looks like for two to three days straight. Plus if you do the math on it the likely hood of that number of noobs joining within a few minute span and then playing in the same game is less than a 4% chance. Like I said Klobber may be innocent, but those accounts were surely made by one person.

Ok, while I'm glad that you're thinking about this, there is one thing you may not realize. Its trivial (for me at least and perhaps KLOBBER) to create a program that would register accounts. If he had access to computers all across the net, he could just automate the process of creating accounts.

I myself as a computer system administrator, have access to several different machines on seperate networks on the Internet, I could easily create a few accounts and fool the admins. I can't blame the admins for letting this go normally, because how can you prove that, and its just a game, its not like a bank heist or something. But the sheer number of games that KLOBBER has been in like this makes it almost statistically impossible for him to be innocent. Given the factors, I'd make an initial guess that the chances are about 1 in a million. I'll have to do the real math sometime to show everyone just how unlikely it is.

Now it is possible that someone is trying to frame him by creating a program that generates accounts and has them automatically join his games. But then we're getting into conspiracy theories. The simplest explanation tends to be right. And from my point of view, the simplest explanation is that he has a program that allows him to do this. It wouldn't be the first time game players have used programs and sophisticated tactics to cheat games.

BeakerWMA wrote:I find it funny these new accounts would join a game in such a weird map. Most new players I would think would join the Classic Map games as that is what they would be familiar with from playing Risk.

It has been my experience that "most" newbies start on Classic and then branch out to see what else is out there.
Certainly doesn;t mean Klobber or anyone else is cheating though.

Just a thought.

I can see how newbies would be attracted to the "look" of the circus map as it's much different than any of the other maps. However, I've taken a look at games on other maps that may have the same appeal, such as the "Pac man" board, and there are no glaring examples of newbies joining the way they have joined Klobber's games.

I know that this thread is just a different version of what's been said before regarding Klobber and Ogiss. However, I think the most important thing that needs to be answered is this:

Would some player be willing to go to the effort to create dozens of multiple personalities just to win more games and increase their rank?

I don't know the answer to that question. If the answer is yes, then if there is a will there is a way. It's just a matter of proving it.

Cisco2001

Oh this is so funny. Where is Oggiss?

I really doubt he is guilty, tons of noobs join Circus Maximus for some odd reason.

deltaray, you just are not listening to anyone. This has all been brought forward before. The mods look at more than just the IP. They will not say what else they look at, because then the cheaters would know how to avoid detection.
You also brought up Occam's Razor, where the simplest explanation is probably what happened. Well, what is more of a simple explanation, you have one guy with access to hundreds of computers with varied IP address and no other connection that the mods could find on more than three occasions set up hundreds of new accounts or you have a bunch of people join the site and sign up for a game on the first few pages of the "Join A Game" window where they see that a lot of other new people are in the game. I know that is what I did.
Also, there have been a lot of people recently who have been accused of this, with none of them being busted. Ask Oggiss if you like.

Even if he is cheating, which I don't think he is, he isn't hurting anyone else's score...

Lets humor the idea that he is a cheat. He makes his own games and fills them with new accounts he creates himself. He isn't taking points from other players, merely creating them for himself. If he was joining games with multis and winning because of it that would be a problem because it damages other players. The only result of what he is allegedly doing is that he is inflating his own score and rank. If anyone is so pathetic that they have to go to so much effort to cheat as what this would take then maybe we should just let them have their way. Wouldn't want CC to push someone over the edge in real life.

Before you pass judgement on him try making atleast 20 maps with his settings and see how many fill up with new recruit deadbeats. I think the results may surprise you.

well, risking of being accused of the same thing, I still must defend klobber here.... not that I really like him, i'm on his ignore list, but what happens to him also happens to me, quite often.

In fact, I like to play world 2.1 with 8 players and fog, and I have quite a few games where out of the 8 players 5 are new recruits, of which sometimes up to 4 drop out.... it just happens when you start 20 or 30 games of the same kind...

GabonX wrote:
Before you pass judgement on him try making atleast 20 maps with his settings and see how many fill up with new recruit deadbeats. I think the results may surprise you.

ahhh a good test.

and also from a previous post: I think the simplest answer has to be that he is not cheating. The sophistication and time required to acquire a few extra points in CC just seems outlandish to me on a second reading.

Wondering why the mods aren't even bothering to look into this ridiculous false accusation? It's because I've already been cleared. The fact that I'm winning due to superior strategy and superior intelligence, not cheating, has been announced in this forum two separate times by two different moderators.

The first announcement is on page 2 of the following thread:

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=44300&p=1145175&hilit=+klobber#p1145175

The second announcement is on page 5 of the following thread:

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=44914&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=60

After all that, there was a certain shit-eating pussy-fart (very much like deltaray, who started this present thread), who insisted on continuing to bitch and moan about me, but was too ignorant to know how to fill out the form. For fun, and also to make a point (some individuals are so retarded that they only learn by repetition), I filled the form myself:

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=46484&p=1230946&hilit=form+filled#p1230946

The mods didn't bother looking into the third form, and if you think they'll bother looking into the fourth, or the fifth, or the sixth, then you are a more deeply retarded shit-eating pussy-fart than the menstruating cunts I mentioned above.

The only reason any of the blood-cunted bitches like deltaray, dancing mustard, and ovo who are spamming this thread continue to yammer about me is that they are low-ranked computer geek jackoffs who are fixated on me due to their envy of my high rank, and have nothing better to do than waste everyone's time offering false accusations to the mods and impotent flames to innocent CC members like myself.

Since their low intelligence prevents them from personally increasing their own laughably low ranks, they cannot conceive of intelligence greater than their own, the kind that allows a real man like me to increase my rank to a respectable level, and so their only available alternative is their girlish bitching and whining campaign.

Well, the mods aren't wasting any more of their time on these shit-sucking swine, and I'm not getting drawn into any ongoing flames with them either:

Let it go, pussies -- just go to your powder rooms, change your tampons, and have yourselves a good, womanly cry -- you lost this one long before you woke up this morning.

I upped my rank fair and square -- now up yours!

Well KLOBBER, based on my acutely profound observation, the actual and factual rationale which is crystal clear about games won by you on Circus Maximus is littered in abundance with evidence of superior deadbeat.

Klobber, I think you proved your own guilt by responding to this thread in that manner. If you've been accused and cleared so many times, then why even respond at all? Plus, the childish name calling reeks of defensiveness. shit eating pussy fart? Really, are you 11? You can't deny that there are a lot of games that you have won that fit a certain mold. I (fortunately) have never played with you, but just by looking at your games, it seems pretty fishy to me, and obviously to many others as well. Now call me some names big guy.

Ok let me see, I've been called a pussy, told that I'm not listening, told by several people that they don't believe KLOBBER is a cheater.

Let's solve this with math. It doesn't matter what people say about it happening to them and these types of games going to the top of the list. The probability of it all can be determined. Albeit, the real probably it VERY COMPLEX. But still the factors below should prove my point. Not only is it highly unlikely that 6 newbies will join a fog of war game and all deadbeat by chance, its almost impossible that this would happen to the same person more than 3 times. Those of you who don't understand probability, I will explain below. Keep in mind that I've only taken one class in probability a few years ago. I had to go ask some experts about this before posting here to make sure I was going about this correctly.

Here are the factors:

*There are currently 11 circus maximus fog of war/sequential/escalating games available right now. Actually, all of them are ones that I created to test GabonX's challenge. Let's imagine that there are just 10 for easier math.

*There are a total of 788 games available right now for play on CC, give or take a few.

*In any given 15 day period, I'd estimate that there are 2000 newbie players and 10,000 players that have a free slot to play a game. There are 22,000 CC accounts with ranks, about 5000 of them are paying players, so that leaves about 15000 that are limited to 4 games.

*Most of the games in question have 8 slots, KLOBBER in one, another player and 6 newbie players.

*The chance of someone picking one of the above maps started by KLOBBER is 10 in 788 or 10/788.

*The chance of a newbie player filling an empty spot in a mentioned game is 2000 in 10000 or 1/5.

*The chance that six of the players are newbies is 1/5 to the 6th power or 1 in a 15,625.


To get the overall possibility of this type of game happening all inclusively, you multiply the individual probabilities together. So we have 10 in the numerator and 788 * 15,625 * 64 or 788.000,000. So that's a 1 in 78.8 million chance that 6 newbie players will all join and deadbeat. Some of you may be thinking that these are crazy because you've seen this happen all the time. Keep in mind that this is the probability of them joining specifically this type of game, not any game. The possibility that 6 newbies will join any game and all of them will not take any turns is something like 10 / (15,625 * 64) or 1 in about 100,000. Since there are over 2 million games on Conquer Club, this could have happened naturally about 20 times. But it would not be likely to happen on the same map or to the same players.

KLOBBER has played 250 games of Circus Maximus with fog of war, escalating cards and standard sequential play. 19 or 20 of them have 6 or 7 newbie players. Many of them have 4 or 5 newbie players scattered throughout the list. But I imagine this is because other players joined before he could get all the newbie players he created to join. The probability of him having 20 games with 6 or more newbies that dead beat is (1/100,000) to the 20th power, which I don't have to tell you is very very very very small chance. Pretty much zero. In my investigation, I've noticed a few other players like KLOBBER who have a lot of games where this is the case too. I imagine they are cheating as well. Either that or there is someone out there that is picking on these players by having their automated program join only games of KLOBBER and these other players.

Honestly though, I would think it wouldn't require a whole math proof to show that the newbies being created in this game are automated and specifically joining KLOBBERs games, not real people choosing on their own to join. I could prove that its easily possible to automate the creation of accounts coming from other IPs and basically circumvent the checks that the admins have in place for determining if an account is a multi or not.

Its only been one day so far, but of the 11 games I created with the same settings, only 1 person has joined any of them. So it doesn't look like its likely that a newbie (or anyone) would want to join such a game.

TheBro wrote:Oh this is so funny. Where is Oggiss?

I really doubt he is guilty, tons of noobs join Circus Maximus for some odd reason.
Lowest score: 1337 <-----, won on 75/80 maps so far.

I find it funny that you are defending a hacker and you note that your lowest score is the prime hacker number 1337 (LEET).

give them time, your earliest ones are still on the second page.

One of the other players that I've noticed fall into the same pattern as KLOBBER is firth4eva. Nobody seems to have ever reported firth4eva for cheating.

deltaray wrote:*Most of the games in question have 8 slots, KLOBBER in one, another player and 6 newbie players.

I know I'm much less likely to join a game that has new recruits in it already. I'd bet large sums of money on the fact that the majority of players are the same way. therefore, once a single "?" has joined, it's much more likely that another one will be next, making it even less likely for someone else to join now that there are 2 "?"s,. thus repeating the cycle until the game is full.

Timminz wrote:

deltaray wrote:*Most of the games in question have 8 slots, KLOBBER in one, another player and 6 newbie players.

I know I'm much less likely to join a game that has new recruits in it already. I'd bet large sums of money on the fact that the majority of players are the same way. therefore, once a single "?" has joined, it's much more likely that another one will be next, making it even less likely for someone else to join now that there are 2 "?"s,. thus repeating the cycle until the game is full.

I can agree with that, but new players have 1000 points and still would be attractive to cadets and cooks. There are still plenty of recent games that have a newbie in the 2nd or 3rd slot and have higher ranking players who joined later. I'm actually doing searches for these things, so I'm basing this stuff on real examples, not just anecdotal evidence.

delta, most normal people do not want to play with "?" because of the tendency to deadbeat. So even if someone is a cook or cadet, they might avoid those games anyway. The math you presented may be accurate give completely random choices, but as we know here nothing is completely random. Most people on this site have played a game on Circus and did not enjoy it, so they will not play another game on that map. This gives an even lower likelihood that someone who is ranked, even a cadet or cook will join those games. Also, as I mentioned before (to prove my other earlier statement that you were not listening) when most people first joined they wanted to play against lower ranked people. I know I avoided playing high ranked players when I joined (actually I still try to play within a rank or two, just to see if I am at the correct level). Thus, you have a Circus game that only has KLOBBER in it, and maybe one new recruit joins seeing that it is an open slot. So now we have KLOBBER (3000+ points) and a new recruit (1000 point, with a hight liklihood of deadbeating) in a game. The range of people who would willingly join this game have now dropped drastically, probably only a few cooks and cadets, like you mentioned, maybe the rare high ranked player who can stand KLOBBER, and new recruits who do not know any better. So, now do a statistical analysis on these data. Also, if a second new recruit joins the game, I think most ranked players are likely to avoid the game like the plague (no offense to 'theplague'). Also, why drag Firth into this, you are just going to aggravate a lot of people on this site and not have anyone to play against.

deltaray wrote:One of the other players that I've noticed fall into the same pattern as KLOBBER is firth4eva. Nobody seems to have ever reported firth4eva for cheating.

It's ok. I've taken care of it. Let' bring this guy to justice.

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