Conquer Club

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Accused:

Genghis Khunt
JMyyork82




The accused are suspected of:

Conducting Secret Diplomacy




Game number(s):

Game 13130783
Game 13318043
Game 13318045
Game 13318039


Comments: These guys play the map quite a bit with each other, and never butt heads until one of them has the game well in hand. They have even teamed up in some doubles games so the alliance is fairly clear.

23 games together, of which only 5 have finished. Mostly large games, however, one is a doubles game which they lost together. Of the other four finished games JMYork82 won 1 of them.

2015-08-04 16:39:22 - jmyork82: although, GK is a good person to predict to win, he knows this map probably better than anybody on the site

Good one.

Show specific instances, not just a game number.

Round # turn #, which territories werent taken, etc...

Its up to you to provide proof, rather than just saying "these guys play together, so theyre cheating"

you have a better shot at getting him on an offensive username... good luck...-Jésus noir

p.s.-prediction... "noted"

Yes, please provide proof. I would like to see that as well.

I will be happy to answer any questions that the site may have on this matter.

-J

How about this game


JM is clearly in control, so what does Genghis do? Come out and attack all the other opponents instead of JM.


Genghis Khunt got bonus of 2 troops added to Jones
2015-07-19 15:33:57 - Genghis Khunt got bonus of 1 troops added to J1
2015-07-19 15:33:57 - Genghis Khunt got bonus of 1 troops added to J2
2015-07-19 15:33:57 - Genghis Khunt received 13 troops for holding 19 Das Schloß
2015-07-19 15:33:57 - Genghis Khunt received 9 troops for 28 regions
2015-07-19 15:34:00 - Genghis Khunt played a set of Ds10, Wache Tomas, and DD4 worth 10 troops
2015-07-19 15:34:00 - Genghis Khunt got bonus of 2 troops added to Wache Tomas
2015-07-19 15:34:22 - Genghis Khunt deployed 32 troops on J2
2015-07-19 15:34:23 - Genghis Khunt assaulted Access Point from J2 and conquered it from marinos
2015-07-19 15:34:26 - Genghis Khunt assaulted Sdt. Mat from Access Point and conquered it from Holystargazer
2015-07-19 15:34:30 - Genghis Khunt assaulted Sdt. Sven from Access Point and conquered it from Terry Sore
2015-07-19 15:34:33 - Genghis Khunt assaulted Kneipe from Sdt. Sven and conquered it from devalen
2015-07-19 15:34:37 - Genghis Khunt assaulted DD4 from Kneipe and conquered it from devalen
2015-07-19 15:34:41 - Genghis Khunt assaulted AA from DD4 and conquered it from neutral player
2015-07-19 15:34:48 - Genghis Khunt assaulted DD1 from AA and conquered it from murphy16
2015-07-19 15:34:51 - Genghis Khunt assaulted Ss1 from DD1 and conquered it from ruthless1704
2015-07-19 15:34:55 - Genghis Khunt ended the turn and got spoils

Only several rounds later does Genghis come out and attack blue when it is much too late.

Its hard to check all the ongoing games since it is fog. Seems very strange though that one always starts in 1 territory, the other one starts in another

xroads wrote:How about this game


JM is clearly in control, so what does Genghis do? Come out and attack all the other opponents instead of JM.


Genghis Khunt got bonus of 2 troops added to Jones
2015-07-19 15:33:57 - Genghis Khunt got bonus of 1 troops added to J1
2015-07-19 15:33:57 - Genghis Khunt got bonus of 1 troops added to J2
2015-07-19 15:33:57 - Genghis Khunt received 13 troops for holding 19 Das Schloß
2015-07-19 15:33:57 - Genghis Khunt received 9 troops for 28 regions
2015-07-19 15:34:00 - Genghis Khunt played a set of Ds10, Wache Tomas, and DD4 worth 10 troops
2015-07-19 15:34:00 - Genghis Khunt got bonus of 2 troops added to Wache Tomas
2015-07-19 15:34:22 - Genghis Khunt deployed 32 troops on J2
2015-07-19 15:34:23 - Genghis Khunt assaulted Access Point from J2 and conquered it from marinos
2015-07-19 15:34:26 - Genghis Khunt assaulted Sdt. Mat from Access Point and conquered it from Holystargazer
2015-07-19 15:34:30 - Genghis Khunt assaulted Sdt. Sven from Access Point and conquered it from Terry Sore
2015-07-19 15:34:33 - Genghis Khunt assaulted Kneipe from Sdt. Sven and conquered it from devalen
2015-07-19 15:34:37 - Genghis Khunt assaulted DD4 from Kneipe and conquered it from devalen
2015-07-19 15:34:41 - Genghis Khunt assaulted AA from DD4 and conquered it from neutral player
2015-07-19 15:34:48 - Genghis Khunt assaulted DD1 from AA and conquered it from murphy16
2015-07-19 15:34:51 - Genghis Khunt assaulted Ss1 from DD1 and conquered it from ruthless1704
2015-07-19 15:34:55 - Genghis Khunt ended the turn and got spoils

Only several rounds later does Genghis come out and attack blue when it is much too late.

Those territories are at the access point, it is not unusual for all players to have territories in that area

xroads wrote:Its hard to check all the ongoing games since it is fog. Seems very strange though that one always starts in 1 territory, the other one starts in another

From playing many games with GK, I know he likes to start at the top left. Being that I was not familiar with the map at the time, I chose to start in the top right as not to butt heads with a more experienced player on his own map.

Guilty of giving myself a better opportunity to win.

Keep em coming, you dont have shit!

jmyork82 wrote:

xroads wrote:How about this game


JM is clearly in control, so what does Genghis do? Come out and attack all the other opponents instead of JM.


Genghis Khunt got bonus of 2 troops added to Jones
2015-07-19 15:33:57 - Genghis Khunt got bonus of 1 troops added to J1
2015-07-19 15:33:57 - Genghis Khunt got bonus of 1 troops added to J2
2015-07-19 15:33:57 - Genghis Khunt received 13 troops for holding 19 Das Schloß
2015-07-19 15:33:57 - Genghis Khunt received 9 troops for 28 regions
2015-07-19 15:34:00 - Genghis Khunt played a set of Ds10, Wache Tomas, and DD4 worth 10 troops
2015-07-19 15:34:00 - Genghis Khunt got bonus of 2 troops added to Wache Tomas
2015-07-19 15:34:22 - Genghis Khunt deployed 32 troops on J2
2015-07-19 15:34:23 - Genghis Khunt assaulted Access Point from J2 and conquered it from marinos
2015-07-19 15:34:26 - Genghis Khunt assaulted Sdt. Mat from Access Point and conquered it from Holystargazer
2015-07-19 15:34:30 - Genghis Khunt assaulted Sdt. Sven from Access Point and conquered it from Terry Sore
2015-07-19 15:34:33 - Genghis Khunt assaulted Kneipe from Sdt. Sven and conquered it from devalen
2015-07-19 15:34:37 - Genghis Khunt assaulted DD4 from Kneipe and conquered it from devalen
2015-07-19 15:34:41 - Genghis Khunt assaulted AA from DD4 and conquered it from neutral player
2015-07-19 15:34:48 - Genghis Khunt assaulted DD1 from AA and conquered it from murphy16
2015-07-19 15:34:51 - Genghis Khunt assaulted Ss1 from DD1 and conquered it from ruthless1704
2015-07-19 15:34:55 - Genghis Khunt ended the turn and got spoils

Only several rounds later does Genghis come out and attack blue when it is much too late.

Those territories are at the access point, it is not unusual for all players to have territories in that area

Yes But why come out, hammer on the people that were a threat to you, instead of using those troops to attack you?

Because I dont usually go past the access point. I just use those troops to card if need be. So if I dont have any troops there, how can he hit me also? Is he going to go all the way up the map to get to me?

As far as why he decided to conquer those terts, you need to ask GK.

Lets be honest here. You are upset that you are not in contention on that map and finding it difficult to gain a foothold with everybody fighting over the bottom right part of the map. Now you are stuck on that game with no certain end coming. Guess what, Das Schloss games take a long time to end buddy.

Face it, I'm just better than you at that map.

This must be a very determined multi. Both have played around 2,000 games. One is in France and the other in the USA. That to me means 2 computers and at least one on a proxy.

Kevi wrote:This must be a very determined multi. Both have played around 2,000 games. One is in France and the other in the USA. That to me means 2 computers and at least one on a proxy.

Never said they were a multi, I said secret alliance.

What gets me is that the 2 of you join literally straight after each other in the games. And like you have said you always take top right letting him take top left (top left most powerful point to get first. In my opinion)This i am afraid to say is a agreement between you 2, so this is a alliance between you and since not stated at begining of chat it is secret to all other players. And will explain the results of the games

jmyork82 wrote:From playing many games with GK, I know he likes to start at the top left. Being that I was not familiar with the map at the time, I chose to start in the top right as not to butt heads with a more experienced player on his own map.

This is the part I don't understand. If you're not familiar with the map, you can't have played "many games with GK", therefore how would you know he likes to start with the top left? If you had played "many games with GK" and were aware of his favoured starting regions, then you would also be familiar with the map.

xroads wrote:

Kevi wrote:This must be a very determined multi. Both have played around 2,000 games. One is in France and the other in the USA. That to me means 2 computers and at least one on a proxy.

Never said they were a multi, I said secret alliance.

Which is untrue and insulting.

This is a knee jerk reaction from you because you saw that I share a lot of games with GK. I share a lot of games with Evilbaby for the exact same reason as I do with GK. Does this mean I am in cahoots with him as well?

Your claim is a misjudgment on circumstances and should be retracted.

-J

eddie2 wrote:What gets me is that the 2 of you join literally straight after each other in the games. And like you have said you always take top right letting him take top left (top left most powerful point to get first. In my opinion)This i am afraid to say is a agreement between you 2, so this is a alliance between you and since not stated at begining of chat it is secret to all other players. And will explain the results of the games

I have been filling old games for months. GK had a string of games, unfilled, for years. I joined them all and filled them all as well as several others.

Upon playing multiple games on this map, I learned how GK plays on this map. Just like in chess, usually the first couple of moves from a player are the same. Since he was a common opponent, I avoided contest with him at the top right so that I could ensure my status on a different bonus on the map. Much like how one player may choose South America over Australia.

I prefer top right personally, the Fs spots add for an extra bonus that can be used to gain more troops that top right. Plus, everybody guns for you through Ss.

So at what point does my preference for one bonus over another enter myself into an alliance with another player? Show me where GK and I discussed a plan and I will go quietly.

I dont need to rely on others for my own success at this game. I win and lose on my own like everybody else.

-J

iAmCaffeine wrote:

jmyork82 wrote:From playing many games with GK, I know he likes to start at the top left. Being that I was not familiar with the map at the time, I chose to start in the top right as not to butt heads with a more experienced player on his own map.

This is the part I don't understand. If you're not familiar with the map, you can't have played "many games with GK", therefore how would you know he likes to start with the top left? If you had played "many games with GK" and were aware of his favoured starting regions, then you would also be familiar with the map.

You have to start somewhere Caffeine. At some point or another there are a "first couple of games" in any series. At one poin Das Scholss was a confusing and complicated map. Over time, I have learned it and got good at it. As well, since pretty much all of those games are with GK, I learned his style of strategy for this map.

Ask your Conqueror. He prefers USA 2.1 and Kings Court. Since he plays those maps so frequently, and as successful as he is, would he not have a specific strategy or game plan that he follows MOST of the time?

The only thing I am guilty of is playing the same map with the same player. And you know what, he has more Das Schloss games waiting in a row. Once I get to those games, and I fill those too, will I be accused of a secret alliance as well?

This sounds similar to a game I played against Charwell and Nathaniel. They arent a secret alliance or multi, however, they play a LOT of games against each other. The issue is that without knowing this their behavior seems weird. They know when each other will attack them which means they can be a lot more aggressive to the other players in the game.

Its a grey area of the rule. No one is making any actual alliance, but they have an understanding of each others play that you is impossible to factor for.

JMYork82 going top left because he knows Genghis' play and that it gives him a good chance of being in the last two isnt a secret alliance, but it is extremely difficult for others to play against as to their understanding it makes little strategic sense.

WingCmdr Ginkapo wrote:This sounds similar to a game I played against Charwell and Nathaniel. They arent a secret alliance or multi, however, they play a LOT of games against each other. The issue is that without knowing this their behavior seems weird. They know when each other will attack them which means they can be a lot more aggressive to the other players in the game.

Its a grey area of the rule. No one is making any actual alliance, but they have an understanding of each others play that you is impossible to factor for.

JMYork82 going top left because he knows Genghis' play and that it gives him a good chance of being in the last two isnt a secret alliance, but it is extremely difficult for others to play against as to their understanding it makes little strategic sense.

Thank you for that insight Ginkapo. It seems so fitting for this situation.

I feel vindicated

Anymore mud you want to drag my name through xroads?

jmyork82 wrote:

iAmCaffeine wrote:

jmyork82 wrote:From playing many games with GK, I know he likes to start at the top left. Being that I was not familiar with the map at the time, I chose to start in the top right as not to butt heads with a more experienced player on his own map.

This is the part I don't understand. If you're not familiar with the map, you can't have played "many games with GK", therefore how would you know he likes to start with the top left? If you had played "many games with GK" and were aware of his favoured starting regions, then you would also be familiar with the map.

You have to start somewhere Caffeine. At some point or another there are a "first couple of games" in any series. At one poin Das Scholss was a confusing and complicated map. Over time, I have learned it and got good at it. As well, since pretty much all of those games are with GK, I learned his style of strategy for this map.

Ask your Conqueror. He prefers USA 2.1 and Kings Court. Since he plays those maps so frequently, and as successful as he is, would he not have a specific strategy or game plan that he follows MOST of the time?

The only thing I am guilty of is playing the same map with the same player. And you know what, he has more Das Schloss games waiting in a row. Once I get to those games, and I fill those too, will I be accused of a secret alliance as well?

I'm not on a witch hunt here, just looking for some clarity.

So, when you first started playing Das Schloss against GK and were new to the map, you didn't have much of a clue of what was going on, or something along those lines. After playing a while you learnt his preferred method of play and adapted yours to suit, therefore improving your chances of success. If that's correct then I have no concerns as I believe Genghis to be an honourable player (I play some doubles with him). You simply didn't word it like that earlier.

You don't need to get so aggressive by the way. Just because someone has been reported doesn't mean they have a bad name or everyone turns on them; these things only happen if there is a guilty verdict.

iAmCaffeine wrote:

jmyork82 wrote:

iAmCaffeine wrote:

jmyork82 wrote:From playing many games with GK, I know he likes to start at the top left. Being that I was not familiar with the map at the time, I chose to start in the top right as not to butt heads with a more experienced player on his own map.

This is the part I don't understand. If you're not familiar with the map, you can't have played "many games with GK", therefore how would you know he likes to start with the top left? If you had played "many games with GK" and were aware of his favoured starting regions, then you would also be familiar with the map.

You have to start somewhere Caffeine. At some point or another there are a "first couple of games" in any series. At one poin Das Scholss was a confusing and complicated map. Over time, I have learned it and got good at it. As well, since pretty much all of those games are with GK, I learned his style of strategy for this map.

Ask your Conqueror. He prefers USA 2.1 and Kings Court. Since he plays those maps so frequently, and as successful as he is, would he not have a specific strategy or game plan that he follows MOST of the time?

The only thing I am guilty of is playing the same map with the same player. And you know what, he has more Das Schloss games waiting in a row. Once I get to those games, and I fill those too, will I be accused of a secret alliance as well?

I'm not on a witch hunt here, just looking for some clarity.

So, when you first started playing Das Schloss against GK and were new to the map, you didn't have much of a clue of what was going on, or something along those lines. After playing a while you learnt his preferred method of play and adapted yours to suit, therefore improving your chances of success. If that's correct then I have no concerns as I believe Genghis to be an honourable player (I play some doubles with him). You simply didn't word it like that earlier.

You don't need to get so aggressive by the way. Just because someone has been reported doesn't mean they have a bad name or everyone turns on them; these things only happen if there is a guilty verdict.

Fair enough. I agree that I have been aggressive, but this is upsetting to me. I take it kind of personal when somebody insinuates that I am a cheater, when in fact I am far from it. When you have a thread created about you and all of the sudden you become a topic of speculation for the entire site, it kind of feels like you are backed in a corner with everybody ganging up on you. Nobody is going to call me out and not hear my 2 cents. I hope you can understand.

But, yes, what you are saying is correct. I may not have worded it well the first time, but it seems that we are getting to the meat and potatoes of it all.

Also, I apologize if I was rude earlier.

jmyork82 wrote:Fair enough. I agree that I have been aggressive, but this is upsetting to me. I take it kind of personal when somebody insinuates that I am a cheater, when in fact I am far from it. When you have a thread created about you and all of the sudden you become a topic of speculation for the entire site, it kind of feels like you are backed in a corner with everybody ganging up on you. Nobody is going to call me out and not hear my 2 cents. I hope you can understand.

But, yes, what you are saying is correct. I may not have worded it well the first time, but it seems that we are getting to the meat and potatoes of it all.

Also, I apologize if I was rude earlier.

I totally understand, a quick search will tell you that. I just thought you should know not everyone's jumping on a bandwagon to knock you down or whatever.

cool, I appreciate it!

-J