Conquer Club

Accused: roprotem

The accused are suspected of: Racism/Bigotry within Global Chat

Comments: today, while discussing the city of detroit in global chat, roprotem fired off some choice racist/bigoted comments about the "inner city" dwellers of detroit. this sort of talk is not allowed within game play, within the forums, within live chat and certainly not within global. I hope more than a warning is issued concerning this matter. hopefully, CC will take this matter seriously. prior racist/bigoted comments within global have gotten members banned from chat and the forums and a step up the bigotry ladder.

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the black jesus has spoken...-Jésus noir

Pretty open and shut, and probably rop is probably over due for a warning anyway. He's been making questionable comments for a while now, and this is obviously over the top.

Bollocks.

Serbia wrote:Pretty open and shut, and probably rop is probably over due for a warning anyway. He's been making questionable comments for a while now, and this is obviously over the top.

yeah, it's too far... even better, he tried to explain it away by giving what HE means by using a very well established racist term within global:




yeah, sorry, that doesn't really fly and is a lame excuse... "hey, my best friend is black!", that excuse never works either... and since CC seems to have a real issue with knowing exactly what well established racist comments/actions are, by looking at past complaints (black face, calling black members veiled versions of the N word, confederate flags in avatars/sigs) i am going to go ahead and give you a few definitions of what his racist comment meant:

The term "Porch Monkey" was most commonly used in the United States as a derogatory term against African Americans. It refers to Blacks being thought of as lazy. As if they have nothing better to do than to sit at their front porch of their home.

Porch monkey
a black person[201] referring to perceived common behavior of groups hanging out on front porches or steps of urban apartment complexes in US cities.

porch monkey (plural porch monkeys)

(idiomatic, offensive, ethnic slur) A lazy black person.

 

porch monkey: A term dating back to American 17th century colonial times, that originally referred to African American slaves who when not working would sit and talk with other slaves on the porch of their plantation homes.

oh, my... it really appears as if this is truly a clear and concise racist term for black people. i hope this is clear enough for CC, since in the past there have been issues with what is and isn't racist. i really hope this isn't going to be a, "well, it means different things to different people", debate. it is a clear and concise racist statement. just like black face is, just like the confederate flag is, just like calling black members variations on the "N" word... this just can not be allowed to go unchecked.-Jn

For the record, I too am from Detroit, and am familiar with the phrase in question. I've only ever heard it used to refer to black people. It's a racist term, and if rop doesn't know that, he needs to consider is punishment to be his hard luck education. But he knew what he was saying.

Bollocks.

C&A forum isn't for global chat infractions.

#onechat

BGtheBrain wrote:C&A forum isn't for global chat infractions.

#onechat

this is racism/bigotry which is a major infraction on CC... i believe racism/bigotry of any type, anywhere on the site, may be placed into C&A. also, this is an ongoing issue and i'm not comfortable with sending a PM to a chat mod to handle it. i want this to be dealt with publicly, because it is a racism/bigotry and CC has a history of letting things slide (in the past, recently they have been much better.)... the fact that your only comment on the matter is that C&A isn't for global infractions, already shows that you have very little understanding of what a major issue bigotry/racism is on and to CC...-Jn

Funny I was looking for the place to report crap like this in chat and couldn't locate it (maybe I am over-sensitive and stupid).

owenshooter wrote:

BGtheBrain wrote:C&A forum isn't for global chat infractions.

#onechat

this is racism/bigotry which is a major infraction on CC... i believe racism/bigotry of any type, anywhere on the site, may be placed into C&A. also, this is an ongoing issue and i'm not comfortable with sending a PM to a chat mod to handle it. i want this to be dealt with publicly, because it is a racism/bigotry and CC has a history of letting things slide (in the past, recently they have been much better.)... the fact that your only comment on the matter is that C&A isn't for global infractions, already shows that you have very little understanding of what a major issue bigotry/racism is on and to CC...-Jn

it's my only comment because there's nothing else to say.

It's clearly bigotry, but this isn't the place to report it.

BGtheBrain wrote:It's clearly bigotry, but this isn't the place to report it.

that's funny, because i was told in the past by an admin and a mod that it was... guess we'll find out...-jn

This is relevant (NSFW for language):



Usages of "porch monkey": http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.p ... rch+monkey

mac, I appreciate what you're posting. "Porch monkey" is an American phrase. rop here is talking about "inner city dwellers", specifically in the city of Detroit, where we both apparently are from. Do you know the racial makeup of Detroit? It's like 86% black. When talking about people who live in the inner city, it's a given that nearly all are black. Inner city does not refer to downtown, but rather to what can essentially be described as ghettos, the depressed and run down neighborhoods deep within the city. The fact that he equated "inner city dwellers" to "porch monkeys" shows the correlation, and makes this obviously racial. He might have been able to get away with this had he not TWICE made the "inner city" comparison.

Bollocks.

Serbia wrote:mac, I appreciate what you're posting. "Porch monkey" is an American phrase. rop here is talking about "inner city dwellers", specifically in the city of Detroit, where we both apparently are from. Do you know the racial makeup of Detroit? It's like 86% black. When talking about people who live in the inner city, it's a given that nearly all are black. Inner city does not refer to downtown, but rather to what can essentially be described as ghettos, the depressed and run down neighborhoods deep within the city. The fact that he equated "inner city dwellers" to "porch monkeys" shows the correlation, and makes this obviously racial. He might have been able to get away with this had he not TWICE made the "inner city" comparison.

Bollocks.

I'm Canadian and I knew exactly what he was referring to. Serbia is right.

notyou2 wrote:

Serbia wrote:mac, I appreciate what you're posting. "Porch monkey" is an American phrase. rop here is talking about "inner city dwellers", specifically in the city of Detroit, where we both apparently are from. Do you know the racial makeup of Detroit? It's like 86% black. When talking about people who live in the inner city, it's a given that nearly all are black. Inner city does not refer to downtown, but rather to what can essentially be described as ghettos, the depressed and run down neighborhoods deep within the city. The fact that he equated "inner city dwellers" to "porch monkeys" shows the correlation, and makes this obviously racial. He might have been able to get away with this had he not TWICE made the "inner city" comparison.

Bollocks.

I'm Canadian and I knew exactly what he was referring to. Serbia is right.

yes... one bad movie by a white director in which he tries to give a racial slur some universal meaning, does not negate the hundreds of years of the racist/derogatory meaning of this word. his intent was clear, his meaning was clear, it is racist. period. you gave one example... so, that will put us at about 10K to 1 on what the meaning is:

The term "Porch Monkey" was most commonly used in the United States as a derogatory term against African Americans. It refers to Blacks being thought of as lazy. As if they have nothing better to do than to sit at their front porch of their home.

Porch monkey
a black person[201] referring to perceived common behavior of groups hanging out on front porches or steps of urban apartment complexes in US cities.

porch monkey (plural porch monkeys)

(idiomatic, offensive, ethnic slur) A lazy black person.

 

porch monkey: A term dating back to American 17th century colonial times, that originally referred to African American slaves who when not working would sit and talk with other slaves on the porch of their plantation homes.

sorry, one poorly written scene in a movie does not excuse away hundreds of years of a term being racist... ted danson in black face didn't make black face ok, and he was banging whoopie goldberg!!! nice try... the term is still racist...-Jn

Did someone ask for the.... Thought Police?

mrswdk wrote:Did someone ask for the.... Thought Police?

You do understand that the very nature of anti-bigotry rules on this site requires a fair amount of thought policing, don't you? This isn't some government witch-hunt; it's a privately run website that can make whatever rules they want.

Bollocks.

This report should be directed to Razorvich rather than C&A since he is head of chatters. I'm a chat mod myself, but he deals out the actual punishments if any.

Shannon Apple wrote:This report should be directed to Razorvich rather than C&A since he is head of chatters. I'm a chat mod myself, but he deals out the actual punishments if any.

yeah, sorry... i truly feel that a major racism/bigotry complaint should be dealt with in the open within the C&A forums and not behind closed chat doors. sorry... it just can't work that way... there needs to be some accountability on what is done to this person, who continually says/does these sorts of things within global chat, without any repercussion. CC took a stance on racism (even if some of the decisions make zero sense... i.e.-black face was considered to not be racist at one point in time on this site..), and it has taken leaps and bounds in dealing with these sorts of things. so, if this user gets a slap on the hand, it should be made public. if this user is CLEARED, it should be made public. a MAJOR INFRACTION should not and can not be handled behind closed doors. and in my opinion, chatters in the past have shown poor ability to control themselves and their judgement and the separation of their feelings about members and the punishments they handed out (I SUBMIT INSOMNIA RED TO THE EVIDENCE, YOUR HONOUR). again, we have come a long way, but this needs to be dealt with by a mod that can handle major infractions. this is not a simple CHAT BAN offense. this is larger than that...-jn

It's a forum chat issue, not a game issue. The MHs have enough to do.

I have already referred this over to Razor to be dealt with.



EDIT: And for the record, IR had issues, so I don't get why you are going back that far. Everyone knows this.

Shannon Apple wrote:It's a forum chat issue, not a game issue. The MHs have enough to do.

I have already referred this over to Razor to be dealt with.



EDIT: And for the record, IR had issues, so I don't get why you are going back that far. Everyone knows this.

hmmmm... so can you please explain to me why i have found myself in C&A so often for alleged forum and chat issues? it is a major infraction and should be dealt with here. chatters do things behind closed doors and something like this should be dealt with publicly... it is a MAJOR fraction. it is one of the BIG no no's on CC.. this is not a "chatters will deal with this" issue. this is a CC issue, and should be dealt with publicly. seeing as how you aren't an admin, not to be rude, i'm pretty secure in having posted a MAJOR INFRACTION within the C&A...

having helped formulate and write the bigotry/racism guidelines and escalating punishment skill, for the site, i have a pretty good grasp of the scope of this issue. this is not a "sit out of chat for 3 days" situation. this is a major infraction and needs to be handled as such... i don't think you are adding much of anything to the conversation, to be honest. so, can you please tell me if you think this was racist or not? how so or why not? i think that would probably add more to the conversation than trying to shuffle it into some back CC room where we all know what sort of jacked up decisions can be made... "hey, you reported people calling you variations of the N word all around the forums... ummm, by marking every single instance, you created a lot of work for the team and we are banning you for 3 months for 'beating a dead horse.' yes, yes, we understand you only REPORTED every instance within the forums because we PM'd you and said it was only a few instances, but your proving us wrong is far too much for us to handle, so you are banned, but not the people calling you variations of the N word..." yeah, i know what happens behind the closed doors of CC when things are not handled publicly.

King A and Evil, i may not always agree with, but i trust their decisions and always respect them (even when i whole heartedly disagree)... the bulk of the rest of team CC are a bunch of Jr. Mints that are exactly what CC pays for... as far as Trini, always been fair, so i don't see why this can't be addressed by him within the C&A if it is to be addressed by him. trini has always been fair and honest and open with me, i just felt like this was a major and should be dealt with, within the C&A.. i apologize if i bruised or stepped on any egos...-Jn

p.s.-so why are forum issues dealt with, within the C&A? can you explain that one to me? why is chat held on some other level that can not be dealt with publicly? i don't see why a chat mod couldn't handle a chat C&A within this open forum.. makes no sense... that is how we had the situations in the past with certain mods in chat, banning people over not liking them or over saying things they simply did not agree with or personally were offended by (despite the chat not violating rules). that is how a chat mod ended up in the C&A for abuse, and was dealt with. simple chat infractions, sure, handle them quickly. a major RACIST/BIGOTRY violation, let's take care of it in here. this is not his first time and he has shown no desire in letting up with this garbage...

My complaint against Owen was dealt with in this C&A forum. Why did no-one point me somewhere else? I'll happily complain elsewhere if that was a mistake...

Owen, I really don't care. No one is disputing how bad that was, so I don't get why you're arguing. I'm not reading that massive wall of text. I did my job and have forwarded it to the correct channel anyway. If a multihunter wants to deal with it, that's up to them, but they are under no obligation to. Have a nice day.

We appreciate the report but this is best handled by a Chat mod.

Serbia wrote:

mrswdk wrote:Did someone ask for the.... Thought Police?

You do understand that the very nature of anti-bigotry rules on this site requires a fair amount of thought policing, don't you? This isn't some government witch-hunt; it's a privately run website that can make whatever rules they want.

Bollocks.

Yeah, and I'm saying those rules are very thought police-y.

It's all well and good to say that this should be handled by a chat mod, and of course it should, but that begs the question of where should it be posted? The complainant has to post it somewhere, and the Chatters HQ is a private forum that ordinary members don't have access to.

Saying "PM it to a chat mod" is inadequate for at least 4 reasons:

• The complainant shouldn't be expected to know which mod is in charge of such complaints (yes he might know, but that is not the point. He shouldn't be expected to know.)
• If the mod in question doesn't feel like addressing it, he can just ignore it.
• It doesn't allow an opportunity for witnesses to come forward and offer context.
• If the final disposition isn't public, then it gives no guidance to members in the future as to what is or is not acceptable.

There really are only two places where I can imagine someone posting something like this: here in C&A, or in GD, and of the two I would think this one is preferable. It may not be a perfect option, but it's the best of the imperfect options available.

It USED to be written in the forum guidelines, but they seem to be now in the archive which shouldn't be the case. Live Chat has a link to it to show people how to report rule-breakers. The same rules apply to Global Chat: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7785#p2865158 A ban in one gets you a ban in the other.

Take screenshots and report to one of the chatters. I was around on Sunday, but didn't see this. I can only ban someone from global chat if I actually catch them in chat. A "block" option appears by clicking on their name. He hadn't been in chat yesterday, so couldn't slap a block on him while this is going on. Owen's being needlessly dramatic about it though. He knows the correct channels. He just admitted that he didn't want to go that way, and I can assure you all that Razor is no softie. He gives punishments where they are deserved, this would be the same scale as a major forum infraction really.