Closed Genghis Khunt & JMYork82 [ka]

[xroads]

Step back and look at it from my perspective.

1. You two play together, a lot
2. Each game, you each take a different area, and stay away from each other.
3. You almost seem to avoid attacking each other.
4. Then you both get super defensive when someone points it out

What is someone supposed to think given all the above?

[jmyork82]

Step back and look at it from my perspective.

1. You two play together, a lot
2. Each game, you each take a different area, and stay away from each other.
3. You almost seem to avoid attacking each other.
4. Then you both get super defensive when someone points it out

What is someone supposed to think given all the above?

1) To clarify, I don't have a particular preference on playing games with GK. The reason we have played so many games together is because he created so many games back to back. I have been filling old games since the beginning of the year. Click the join games link and go to the very last page. I am soon to be working on those last 7 and will continue on once I fill those. Some players create multiple games at one. I join and fill them all. You can research this and find this to be true. There are even discussion threads with my involvement. This explains why I have so many games with him. It will happen again once I get to his next string of games.

2) This has been clarified in this thread already, I will let you read back.

3) I have no problem attacking him and he doesnt have a problem attacking me. There have been plenty of games where he has knocked me out of a good location. There are even a few that we are playing now where we are in tight quarters. I'm sure a Mod with the capability of seeing through the fog would be able to verify this. As far as our particular game, I have to go through at least 28 resetting neutrals if I want to knock on his door. If I am going to make that move, I better damn sure have the troops to do it, you know what I mean?

4) Look at it from my shoes, and GK's for that matter. If somebody insinuates that you are a cheater. How would you react?

With all that said, I think we have all got to the bottom of this. I'm willing to put this behind us if you are. What do you say? Are we good?

-Jeff

[owenshooter]

Step back and look at it from my perspective.

1. You two play together, a lot
2. Each game, you each take a different area, and stay away from each other.
3. You almost seem to avoid attacking each other.
4. Then you both get super defensive when someone points it out

What is someone supposed to think given all the above?

1) To clarify, I don't have a particular preference on playing games with GK. The reason we have played so many games together is because he created so many games back to back. I have been filling old games since the beginning of the year. Click the join games link and go to the very last page. I am soon to be working on those last 7 and will continue on once I fill those. Some players create multiple games at one. I join and fill them all. You can research this and find this to be true. There are even discussion threads with my involvement. This explains why I have so many games with him. It will happen again once I get to his next string of games.

2) This has been clarified in this thread already, I will let you read back.

3) I have no problem attacking him and he doesnt have a problem attacking me. There have been plenty of games where he has knocked me out of a good location. There are even a few that we are playing now where we are in tight quarters. I'm sure a Mod with the capability of seeing through the fog would be able to verify this. As far as our particular game, I have to go through at least 28 resetting neutrals if I want to knock on his door. If I am going to make that move, I better damn sure have the troops to do it, you know what I mean?

4) Look at it from my shoes, and GK's for that matter. If somebody insinuates that you are a cheater. How would you react?

With all that said, I think we have all got to the bottom of this. I'm willing to put this behind us if you are. What do you say? Are we good?

-Jeff

sorry... this was the end of it all for me... great post:

What gets me is that the 2 of you join literally straight after each other in the games. And like you have said you always take top right letting him take top left (top left most powerful point to get first. In my opinion)This i am afraid to say is a agreement between you 2, so this is a alliance between you and since not stated at begining of chat it is secret to all other players. And will explain the results of the games

the black jesus has quoted eddie2...-Jésus noir

[JBlombier]

I'll throw in my 2 cents, based on absolutely nothing at all:
These guys are innocent.

Since this is merely my opinion, I'll say that I do appreciate the work that's being done to bust a guilty player, but to me it's obvious that this is just a guy playing a game and some other guy that doesn't give a shit about what we're typing here. Perhaps he made a few shady decisions on his way down CC-lane, but so did I.

I gotta stop typing now, before I admit I have 8 multi's.

[hmsps]

I am currently in a game with them and the tactics look identical to what is being served here, certainly red is top left. What i would say is had i known then what i know now, i wouldn't have joined the game. If you know for a fact that 1 player will totally focus in one area, it fairly loads the dice knowing that one whole area will not be touched.

It may not be cheating but it clearly gives an advantage before the game starts.

[Coler]

I would not be happy to play a singles game with the two of you guys in it, if this is how you operate.

Just because its unspoken between you doesn't make it any less of an agreement.

Getting in a game without knowing of your diplomatic stance to each other would be completely unpleasant.

[iAmCaffeine]

You're all overreacting. Nearly everyone showing concern about the amount of multiplayer games these two have participated in together will have been or currently be in similar situations themselves. Anyone who is active in the tournament scene knows exactly what I'm talking about, especially the Great War or TPA; I regularly find myself against the same opponents.

[Coler]

I'm not saying they're not nice guys - I know for a fact that Genghis is.

But it would still suck to join a 3 or 4 player game or whatever with them on a map that they play like this without knowing that they do.

I would agree it might fall short of 'cheating' or 'abuse' though.

[eddie2]

They have a agreement that one takes one area and one takes another area there is only 3 areas on the map. This is diplomacy between them. And since nobody else knows it is secret diplomacy.

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

I hope someone intends to find evidence of an agreement between them.

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

They have a agreement that one takes one area and one takes another area there is only 3 areas on the map. This is diplomacy between them. And since nobody else knows it is secret diplomacy.

By the sounds of it Genghis doesnt know about it either

[iAmCaffeine]

I hope someone intends to find evidence of an agreement between them.

+1

They have a agreement that one takes one area and one takes another area there is only 3 areas on the map. This is diplomacy between them. And since nobody else knows it is secret diplomacy.

I see common sense and good planning, not an agreement.

[eddie2]

Its hard to check all the ongoing games since it is fog. Seems very strange though that one always starts in 1 territory, the other one starts in another

From playing many games with GK, I know he likes to start at the top left. Being that I was not familiar with the map at the time, I chose to start in the top right as not to butt heads with a more experienced player on his own map.

Guilty of giving myself a better opportunity to win.

Keep em coming, you dont have shit!

Wing no total evidence and gk might not know but ths happening in a game makes it look bad.

[jmyork82]

I am currently in a game with them and the tactics look identical to what is being served here, certainly red is top left. What i would say is had i known then what i know now, i wouldn't have joined the game. If you know for a fact that 1 player will totally focus in one area, it fairly loads the dice knowing that one whole area will not be touched.

It may not be cheating but it clearly gives an advantage before the game starts.

hmsps, I'm so glad you joined this discussion because it made me check the game history.

GK had top left and I had top right. In round 20, I kicked his ass out of the top left. But then I lost the top right to yellow it looks like. Proof that I do in fact attack GK when the opportunity arises.

I havent seen is troops since round 28. Now I am waiting for a good time to strike again, but it may be a few rounds.

[jmyork82]

I would not be happy to play a singles game with the two of you guys in it, if this is how you operate.

Just because its unspoken between you doesn't make it any less of an agreement.

Getting in a game without knowing of your diplomatic stance to each other would be completely unpleasant.

If you dont want to play any games with me that's fine. But there is not agreement, or diplomatic stance, or understanding, or any conjuring for that matter.

I play my game, he plays his game, and everybody else plays there game. Sometimes I get a good position, sometimes he gets a good position, other people in the game have their opportunity to get a good position.

Some games I have the top left, some games I have the top right, some games I am shit out of luck. So if there was an agreed upon tactic, then all these games would look the same, and I will tell you right now, they dont. They all look different. As honest games should.

The fact that you guys have dissected it this much is insane.

Quote that Black Jesus!

[jmyork82]

They have a agreement that one takes one area and one takes another area there is only 3 areas on the map. This is diplomacy between them. And since nobody else knows it is secret diplomacy.

no such agreement exists, and continuing to state that opinion is not going to make it exist either.

[jmyork82]

I hope someone intends to find evidence of an agreement between them.

+1

They have a agreement that one takes one area and one takes another area there is only 3 areas on the map. This is diplomacy between them. And since nobody else knows it is secret diplomacy.

I see common sense and good planning, not an agreement.

+2

[jmyork82]

Its hard to check all the ongoing games since it is fog. Seems very strange though that one always starts in 1 territory, the other one starts in another

From playing many games with GK, I know he likes to start at the top left. Being that I was not familiar with the map at the time, I chose to start in the top right as not to butt heads with a more experienced player on his own map.

Guilty of giving myself a better opportunity to win.

Keep em coming, you dont have shit!

Wing no total evidence and gk might not know but ths happening in a game makes it look bad.

So if you play a game with a common opponent enough.... and you find out that he likes to take South America.... and he's good at taking South America.....are you going to go after South America every time....or are you going to take your chances in Australia because you know that you will survive long enough to overcome his tactic?

If that is unfair, then why would anybody play a game against this sites top ranked player?

Don't you think that maybe he has an exact game plan for his chosen map that YOU as an OPPONENT needs to overcome in order to win?

Maybe you should investigate his tactics?


One of these days, continuing on what I set out to do in the first place, FILLING OLD GAMES, trying to do this sight a service. I will come across the below linked games...

http://www.conquerclub.com/player.php?submit=Search&gs[]=W&np[]=8&mp[]=92&ty[]=D&it[]=E&po[]=S&bc[]=2&ft[]=C&wf[]=Y&tw[]=Y&rl[]=0&sg[]=N&pt[]=N

All in a row, by the same player. I am going to do my best to fill all of these games, AT THE SAME TIME. And you know what, somebody will probably report me again, but this time, because I am "farming an inactive players team games" Since it's "one less team I am going to have to worry about". And maybe I join a few of those games with the inactive player, just to be a good sport about it. It wont matter! Because the eddie's and the xroads and all the other members of the peanut gallery who think they know whats going on, are going to show up and say, "he joined those games to make it look like he wasnt trying to do something dishonest, something is fishy and amiss".

That's what is wrong with the forums. That's why this sight is digressing. Everybody wants to talk about the problems, and point a finger at who's fault it is, and troll and flame.

I am appreciative of the ones who see this for what it is, and get it.

Isn't there supposed to be some sort of Mod or C&A member who is supposed to look at this already? Can we get this done and over with?

[Coler]

An agreement can be tacit or overt.

The question begged is, to what extent to players who have come to an 'understanding' about how they approach their games have an obligation to share that understanding with other players.

I don't have an answer though - I did already say I didn't think the subject matter of this thread amounted to cheating or abuse, to be clear.

I think everyone's line in the sand here will be different.

My own would be, if I thought I, in the position of the other players, would expect to be told, then I would tell, i.e. if knowing the true position was capable of influencing the gameplay of another player, they should be told. Otherwise...it's a secret. And if it's not diplomacy, it's very close.

[jmyork82]

An agreement can be tacit or overt.

The question begged is, to what extent to players who have come to an 'understanding' about how they approach their games have an obligation to share that understanding with other players.

I don't have an answer though - I did already say I didn't think the subject matter of this thread amounted to cheating or abuse, to be clear.

I think everyone's line in the sand here will be different.

My own would be, if I thought I, in the position of the other players, would expect to be told, then I would tell, i.e. if knowing the true position was capable of influencing the gameplay of another player, they should be told. Otherwise...it's a secret. And if it's not diplomacy, it's very close.

You bring up some interesting points.

Ok, it seems like you are playing a lot of Bamboo Jack at the moment. Lets say you and I end up playing against each other, say 20 games on bamboo jack, and they all start within a couple of weeks to a month of each other. I learn through the course of playing with you that you like taking the rail section bonus at the bottom, that's your thing. So I stay away from that part of the map and try to find my own foothold and become successful at the top of the map. I stay away from you because I know better. And we lock heads when the time comes. Also, in a few of these games, for whatever reason, I snub you out of the bottom part and you take the top part, and we both work our respective parts of the map. Either way you cut it, other players are caught in the middle and now they are along for the ride.

Now all of these games are running at the same time, if I learn your style, should I share it with the rest of the players in the game? Disclose your position in fog? When I find out for myself, is the information too late to share and damage is done? Say a brand new game starts, opening up in the chat,............ "hey everybody, GL!!!, by the way Coler, likes to take the bonus at the bottom and I like to take the one at the top, just thought I would let you know since this is fog and we both have the potential to become very strong in these areas, hope you are ready!"

So, since the idea of fog is to make your position more difficult to be known and telling players where somebody is in a fog game is highly frowned upon, then......I will let you fill in the blanks.

None of this was planned. All of this is a byproduct of joining every single game that a player had created at the same time.

Hell, I dont like playing every single one of these games that I fill, but I have to so that I can invite people to join them. If the sight would let me, I would invite from afar and remove inactive players from games. I could clear hundreds of waiting games! That and take over Butters stagnant Clean out the Pantry call out.....

[Genghis Khunt]

as i have been busy having multiple blood transfusions in order to win the world athletic championships womens 110 metre hurdles i haven't been following the fact that I am now a famous CC cheater....it is blatantly obvious to all concerned that Schloss is my favourite and most succesful map over the last 4 tears or so...my tactics rarely change but i do refine them as i go along...I don't even remember playing doubles games with York82 as I tend to have a concentration rating of -10 what with work, holidays and 2 screaming children to deal with.....when you know you have a " serious " threat on any map you eihter take the bastard out as soon as possible and risk it against " lesser " threats or you bide your time and trust your long term strategy ( on schloss you know a threat by tert numbers in early rounds so you know well enough to 80% accuracy if there is a cold war scenario building up ) I don't intend to defend myself as I don't need to , enough people know me on this excellent site to be a ruthless player who always plays to win...for my integrity I am a respected university professor and am also an elite level pool player on the national tour with a long career and never a single instance of throwing games even against team- mates or playing illegal money matches, victory for myself is all that counts.......before accusing people you need to have researched their performance a bit more thoroughly than is the case in this instance and obviously provide some proof of some sort.....I am willing to let this go and retreat back into my corner and treat it as a " mistake " by our accuser.....please don't call the geng a cheat again !!!!

[xroads]

Seeing the arguments made by my opponents, I can see their points and withdraw my accusation.

First glance it seemed very obvious, and now by their reasoning I can give them the benefit of the doubt.

Innocent until proven guilty right?

[owenshooter]

Seeing the arguments made by my opponents, I can see their points and withdraw my accusation.

First glance it seemed very obvious, and now by their reasoning I can give them the benefit of the doubt.

Innocent until proven guilty right?

a mod hasn't looked at this... they can argue all they want... until a mod looks into it, it isn't settled... they could be "noted", they could be "warned", there are several possible outcomes... hold your horses!!!-Jésus noir

[eddie2]

Seeing the arguments made by my opponents, I can see their points and withdraw my accusation.

First glance it seemed very obvious, and now by their reasoning I can give them the benefit of the doubt.

Innocent until proven guilty right?

a mod hasn't looked at this... they can argue all they want... until a mod looks into it, it isn't settled... they could be "noted", they could be "warned", there are several possible outcomes... hold your horses!!!-Jésus noir

You forgot they could be blocked.

York82 is puzzling me with the responses made. One min he said he had played serveral games and got to know his tactic. Next min he says he joined all games same time... Then gengus comes in and says exactly the same as york82 said about drop the acussation and we will move on and forget about it. If there was nothing to be seen why do both of them want the case droped by op instead of closed by a mod.

[iAmCaffeine]

Eddie you seem to be reading between fictional lines.