JOHNNYROCKET

by **Pedronicus** on Fri Dec 08, 2006 5:05 am

This man throws singles games so his regular doubles teammate can win the game

First Game 112474

On this game JR handed in a set and went on to kill General mayhem. If the numbers on the map aren't too clear. RL_Orange has got 33 in Kamchatka, 20 in Brazil and 51 in Ukraine. JR fortified Alaska with 25 armies from Siam, so that RL wouldn't have to get his 33 in Kamchatka bottle necked in europe.

second Game 113217

On this game JR just cashed a set of cards and started his attack from indonesia (he had Oceania and that was all he had) If the numbers on the map aren't too clear. RL_Orange has got 18 in quebec v 4 + 2 of yellow to get 3 more cards to add to his 3 already. I had 6 on Greenland, which JR whittled down to 2, leaving him with 3 on Iceland - so there was no way he could get to the remaining yellows in North America.

I don't think that RL_Orange is a cheat, but this is definitely wrong. Prolonging the game and making sure all players have a chance is the right way to play a game.

by **zip_disk** on Fri Dec 08, 2006 6:20 am

I looked at both games and I don't see anything that definitely proves that there was cheating.

In the first example there's no real good option. I have no idea what teal or JR's army strength was prior to JR's turn so I can't talk about it. Balance of power, etc.

Now RL_Orange basically has overwhelming numbers so the placement of JR's armies isn't that suspicious, he has to pray for good defender rolls just to survive to use his cards. His plan is probably to hope that the defender rolls blocks Kamchatka, forcing Ukraine to split/come over through Iceland one way and not have put enough in one force to win in NA or Eu/Af/As/Ocn.

Frankly I don't see how Kamchatka would be bottlenecked in Europe. Either Brazil or the remnants of Kamchatka could take a south route (ME -> India) to Siam while Ukraine came from the north (Af -> Ch). Only 1 could come inside though.

A plan might've been to hide all his mobile armies inside Oceania, but 51 armies plus 5 (and cards?) would've been sent inside to fight at most 39. That would leave Kamchatka and Brazil to clean up the rest, a combined strength of 53 to fight single armies.

In the second example, the question really is "How was he doing earlier and how many did he arrive in Iceland with of the 45+ he started the turn with?" rather than what was left afterwards. For all we know he was getting great attacker rolls until he encountered Greenland. If JR used auto-attack to hit Greenland and got screwed the results probably look like it does now.

Once he had gotten to the point of Iceland, there really was no reason not to attack Greenland as long as there was the slimmest hope of winning. 4 armies could theoretically defeat 3 countries if they got perfect rolls. Unlikely as ever but possible.

RL_Orange was so likely to kill yellow its not worth talking about. Then he was going to get more 45 armies if he didn't have a set already (3 + 3). Takes out red gets another 50 (3 + 3). Then who knows.

Summary, can't say what you showed proves anything. Need more info.

by **Pedronicus** on Fri Dec 08, 2006 6:51 am

Well the strange thing is - that I was looking at my (113217) game this morning and shaking my head.
I was thinking - he's handed this game on a plate to RL_Orange.
then just at the same time i got a msn fron General Mayhem, saying JR has handed a game to RL_Orange, and I thought that he might of been looking at my game - then he gave me the game number, and it was a different game. Coinsidence? - no

Game 113217 info before JR took his go: I had 14 on Alaska when it was my go - and I thought long and hard about trying to kill JR for his cards.

There was an yellow army of five in China, which I was going to thin down using my 6 in Afgan, and my easiest route to Oceana was Kamchatcka yellow(3), Yakutsk yellow(2) and Siberia yellow(1) - the route through Japan or Irkustsk / Mongolia was more heavily fortified by yellow. I weighed up the odds and decided against it.

There were about 5 greens in ukraine 1 yellow on scandinavia, 2 in iceland and 6 in greenland (me) India had 5 yellows on it

So for JR to of killed yellow with his 45 cashed in armies plus the 3 he had in Indonesia - he would of needed to;
Leave 16 1's behind as he went.
and got through approx. 48 armies that stood in his way. No one would of made that sort of attack with an ounce of sense. Anyone else would of taken Siam and hoped to get a lucky set with the next card.

I've not gone to all this trouble of copying game shots / hosting / posting etc on a whim.

by **General Mayhem** on Fri Dec 08, 2006 10:03 am

Essentially to me it seems they may have helped each other to the point were it detriments other players and keeps them both with a winning chance against each other at the end of the game, knowingly or unknowingly to themselves?!

I'd like to know what JR's strategy was when a defensive play would of kept him in a stronger position against me and RL than he's in now.

by **reverend_kyle** on Fri Dec 08, 2006 10:04 am

I can think of many times where I've inadvertantly handed the game to someone on a silver platter, and I know I'd hate to be accused of cheating over it.

by **General Mayhem** on Fri Dec 08, 2006 10:14 am

reverend_kyle wrote:I can think of many times where I've inadvertantly handed the game to someone on a silver platter, and I know I'd hate to be accused of cheating over it.

What are you refering to?

by **RL_Orange** on Fri Dec 08, 2006 10:40 am

First of all i would like to state that i dont cheat, never did and never will.

But since you all dont really know me you aint got a reason to believe me. Except some of the players that know me from MSN Gaming Zone. And they know better for sure.

To be honest this post pisses me off and brings me in a 'stinger' mode. For those who played the Zone know exactly what i mean.

Further i think it would be honorable for those who are posting on here are clear about there motivation to post here. I surely hope a personal issue between JR and Pedronicus is not part of this. But to be honest i doubt it considering the messages i have seen. I hope to readers of this forum realize that i cannot be held accountable for the moves and the motivation behind it other players make in their games.

Recently i had an issue with one of the other players on the conquerclub. And i must admit this issue influenced my game tactics. For the one concerned, and he knows this already, i am sorry. For a while i had this person on my ignore list. I wonder if JR and/or Pedronicus have each other on their ignore list.

Now back to the game described.

Zip_Disk comments are very recognizable about the way i played the game and set up my men. Further the way he described the motivations JR might have had, its recognizable for me too. I might have handled the same way.

Below the game info on the first game:
2006-12-05 23:40:27 - Incrementing game to round 14
2006-12-06 18:52:34 - RL_Orange receives 2 armies for holding South America
2006-12-06 18:52:34 - RL_Orange receives 4 armies for 13 territories
2006-12-06 18:52:56 - RL_Orange deployed 6 armies on Kamchatka
2006-12-06 18:53:08 - RL_Orange attacked Yakutsk from Kamchatka and conquered it from JOHNNYROCKET24
2006-12-06 18:53:29 - RL_Orange attacked Siberia from Yakutsk and conquered it from JOHNNYROCKET24
2006-12-06 18:53:38 - RL_Orange attacked Ural from Siberia and conquered it from JOHNNYROCKET24
2006-12-06 18:53:46 - RL_Orange attacked Ukraine from Ural and conquered it from General Mayhem
2006-12-06 18:54:29 - RL_Orange fortified Kamchatka with 2 armies from Japan
2006-12-06 18:54:29 - RL_Orange gets a card
2006-12-07 18:54:29 - General Mayhem missed a turn
2006-12-08 00:09:19 - JOHNNYROCKET24 receives 3 armies for 10 territories
2006-12-08 00:09:26 - JOHNNYROCKET24 cashed in a set of Mongolia, Egypt, and Alaska worth 65 armies
2006-12-08 00:09:38 - JOHNNYROCKET24 deployed 68 armies on China
2006-12-08 00:09:44 - JOHNNYROCKET24 attacked Siam from China and conquered it from General Mayhem
2006-12-08 00:09:54 - JOHNNYROCKET24 attacked Indonesia from Siam and conquered it from General Mayhem
2006-12-08 00:10:07 - JOHNNYROCKET24 attacked Congo from East Africa and conquered it from General Mayhem
2006-12-08 00:10:13 - JOHNNYROCKET24 attacked North Africa from Congo and conquered it from General Mayhem
2006-12-08 00:10:20 - JOHNNYROCKET24 attacked Egypt from North Africa and conquered it from General Mayhem
2006-12-08 00:10:23 - JOHNNYROCKET24 attacked Southern Europe from Egypt and conquered it from General Mayhem
2006-12-08 00:10:31 - JOHNNYROCKET24 attacked Western Europe from Southern Europe and conquered it from General Mayhem
2006-12-08 00:10:35 - JOHNNYROCKET24 attacked Great Britain from Western Europe and conquered it from General Mayhem
2006-12-08 00:10:43 - JOHNNYROCKET24 attacked Northern Europe from Great Britain and conquered it from General Mayhem
2006-12-08 00:10:47 - JOHNNYROCKET24 attacked Scandinavia from Northern Europe and conquered it from General Mayhem
2006-12-08 00:10:51 - JOHNNYROCKET24 attacked Iceland from Scandinavia and conquered it from General Mayhem
2006-12-08 00:10:57 - JOHNNYROCKET24 attacked Greenland from Iceland and conquered it from RL_Orange
2006-12-08 00:11:06 - JOHNNYROCKET24 attacked Ontario from Greenland and conquered it from General Mayhem
2006-12-08 00:11:10 - JOHNNYROCKET24 attacked Alberta from Ontario and conquered it from General Mayhem
2006-12-08 00:11:14 - JOHNNYROCKET24 attacked Northwest Territory from Alberta and conquered it from General Mayhem
2006-12-08 00:11:19 - JOHNNYROCKET24 attacked Alaska from Northwest Territory and conquered it from General Mayhem
2006-12-08 00:11:19 - JOHNNYROCKET24 eliminated General Mayhem from the game
2006-12-08 00:11:53 - JOHNNYROCKET24 fortified Alaska with 25 armies from Siam
2006-12-08 00:11:53 - JOHNNYROCKET24 gets a card
2006-12-08 00:11:53 - Incrementing game to round 15

As far as i can see JR went with his 65 men for a kill of General Mayhem, maybe gambling on the fact i do not have a trade (i do hold 4 cards). Killing me was not feasible for him, since i am holding 127 men!

Below the game info on the second game:
2006-12-07 17:18:02 - Incrementing game to round 10
2006-12-07 22:16:34 - cyberdaniel receives 3 armies for 9 territories
2006-12-07 22:16:47 - cyberdaniel cashed in a set of Ukraine, Congo, and Scandinavia worth 35 armies
2006-12-07 22:16:47 - cyberdaniel gets bonus of 2 armies added to Scandinavia
2006-12-07 22:17:03 - cyberdaniel deployed 38 armies on Middle East
2006-12-07 22:17:16 - cyberdaniel attacked Siberia from Mongolia and conquered it from JOHNNYROCKET24
2006-12-07 22:17:59 - cyberdaniel attacked India from Middle East and conquered it from JOHNNYROCKET24
2006-12-07 22:18:09 - cyberdaniel attacked Siam from India and conquered it from JOHNNYROCKET24
2006-12-07 22:20:11 - cyberdaniel fortified India with 4 armies from Siam
2006-12-07 22:20:11 - cyberdaniel gets a card
2006-12-08 00:24:40 - Pedronicus receives 3 armies for 9 territories
2006-12-08 00:24:48 - Pedronicus deployed 3 armies on Afghanistan
2006-12-08 00:25:04 - Pedronicus attacked Middle East from Afghanistan and conquered it from cyberdaniel
2006-12-08 00:25:42 - Pedronicus gets a card
2006-12-08 00:32:36 - JOHNNYROCKET24 receives 2 armies for holding Oceania
2006-12-08 00:32:36 - JOHNNYROCKET24 receives 3 armies for 4 territories
2006-12-08 00:32:43 - JOHNNYROCKET24 cashed in a set of Madagascar, Greenland, and Indonesia worth 40 armies
2006-12-08 00:32:43 - JOHNNYROCKET24 gets bonus of 2 armies added to Indonesia
2006-12-08 00:32:48 - JOHNNYROCKET24 deployed 45 armies on Indonesia
2006-12-08 00:33:01 - JOHNNYROCKET24 attacked Siam from Indonesia and conquered it from cyberdaniel
2006-12-08 00:33:07 - JOHNNYROCKET24 attacked India from Siam and conquered it from cyberdaniel
2006-12-08 00:33:15 - JOHNNYROCKET24 attacked China from India and conquered it from RL_Orange
2006-12-08 00:33:21 - JOHNNYROCKET24 attacked Mongolia from China and conquered it from cyberdaniel
2006-12-08 00:33:28 - JOHNNYROCKET24 attacked Japan from Mongolia and conquered it from cyberdaniel
2006-12-08 00:33:33 - JOHNNYROCKET24 attacked Kamchatka from Japan and conquered it from cyberdaniel
2006-12-08 00:33:47 - JOHNNYROCKET24 attacked Irkutsk from Kamchatka and conquered it from cyberdaniel
2006-12-08 00:33:53 - JOHNNYROCKET24 attacked Yakutsk from Irkutsk and conquered it from cyberdaniel
2006-12-08 00:33:58 - JOHNNYROCKET24 attacked Siberia from Yakutsk and conquered it from cyberdaniel
2006-12-08 00:34:06 - JOHNNYROCKET24 attacked Ural from Siberia and conquered it from RL_Orange
2006-12-08 00:34:12 - JOHNNYROCKET24 attacked Ukraine from Ural and conquered it from RL_Orange
2006-12-08 00:34:19 - JOHNNYROCKET24 attacked Scandinavia from Ukraine and conquered it from cyberdaniel
2006-12-08 00:34:26 - JOHNNYROCKET24 attacked Iceland from Scandinavia and conquered it from Pedronicus
2006-12-08 00:34:59 - JOHNNYROCKET24 gets a card

Again i think JR tried to get yellow.....killing me for example is due to my spread - a tactic i follow a lot of the times - impossible for him.

I wonder what JR has to say on this forum and the questions that are still open.

Further i hope that the accusations towards me proof to be wrong. If not i hope you believe me and if not, pls put me on your ignore list.

RL_Orange
Martin

by **Robinette** on Fri Dec 08, 2006 3:51 pm

These two are in alot of games together, and presumably they are friends.
Friends, while both trying to win, often look out for each other hoping to be the last two players in a game.

I have completed 10 games thus far with all of us in the same game.

3 wins for Robinette
1 win for Johnny
1 win for RL
5 wins for others

Based on those results, it would appear that they did not assist each other in the games that I've played with them.
Although I did not look at the details of those games, only the # of wins.

by **garionoldwolf** on Fri Dec 08, 2006 5:46 pm

knowing JR from a game besides here I really doubt he would stoop to cheating, I used to play JR in a game called Half-life(by the way JR when ya gonna re-install steam?).

by **Ronaldinho** on Fri Dec 08, 2006 6:37 pm

What half life got to do with some1 wanting to cheat or not lol. And half life is crap. Half life 2 is immence pitty 3 aint coming out for the pc :cry:

by **General Mayhem** on Fri Dec 08, 2006 8:16 pm

If we have been incorrectly suspicious about said games then sorry, but it was not without reason.

- When playing in high-rank, high-skill games, all players are investing a lot of time in their moves. :-k

- All players expect the others players to be doing the same, otherwise we'd be in a game full of privates and new recruits.

- Unfortunately time constraints in real life through to having too many games on the clock can lead us to make moves under pressure. We've all done it. #-o

- This can lead other players to ask 'why did they do that?!?!' and eventually self-combust. ](*,)

The moral of the story: Be sure to invest your time to prevent a move of crime :twisted:

by **reverend_kyle** on Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:21 am

General Mayhem wrote:
The moral of the story: Dont get loaded before you play risk as a requirement

If only i could follow that.

by **Robinette** on Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:44 pm

General Mayhem wrote:If we have been incorrectly suspicious about said games then sorry, but it was not without reason.

- When playing in high-rank, high-skill games, all players are investing a lot of time in their moves.

- All players expect the others players to be doing the same, otherwise we'd be in a game full of privates and new recruits.

- Unfortunately time constraints in real life through to having too many games on the clock can lead us to make moves under pressure. We've all done it.

- This can lead other players to ask 'why did they do that?!?!' and eventually self-combust.

The moral of the story: Be sure to invest your time to prevent a move of crime

You make some wonderful points...
And I think you hit the nail on the head!

I've finally gotten a chance to look closer at the games I've played with Johnny.
There were several games where he made moves that, shall we say, appeared to be without strategic understanding of the game.
This lead to #4 above, and to suspicion of cheating in the game chat...
In 77176 RL was eliminated by Johnny just prior to the problem, but the suspicion was with regards to another player.
I posted the following in the game chat after this particuallary suspicious series of moves (written in hillbilly):

well I duuno what to thin 'bout it ur way 'a pla'ing, but i jus like t' tell y'aIl `twud be a disgrace to hav ta be a pounden all these frindless an' ongrateful people into insinsibility

I am satisfied that there was no cheating in that game, and that it was simply poor game tactics.
Johnny has reached the rank of colonel, but at over 1000 games completed, on average he has gained less than 1 point per game played.
Perhaps we should expect no better from him.

by **qeee1** on Sun Dec 10, 2006 5:17 pm

Lucky for Johnny, he has the option between being a poor player and being a cheat.

Or maybe that's a false dichotomy. As far as this goes I've only been in one game where both players were present, and it was doubles with them on the same team so it doesn't really count, but for the record my team won.

by **JOHNNYROCKET24** on Sun May 20, 2007 4:04 pm

lol at this entire thread

because Pedro thinks I cheated im left with a BS feedback and not permitted to join the SE group.

by **poo-maker** on Sun May 20, 2007 4:32 pm

JOHNNYROCKET24 wrote:lol at this entire thread

because Pedro thinks I cheated im left with a BS feedback and not permitted to join the SE group.

But blitz says that you need a majority vote to get in... Pedro would only take away 1 vote. All SE members have an equal vote too...

After saying that, i do think that it is a bit fishy for a player of your rank and experience not to be in the SE.